Hello, still trying to sort out my , new to me, van. It's a 1981 B250 that's currently running a replacement 360 with a little ol' Carter 2 barrel carb. Carb was recently tuned and she passed emissions. I also just put on a new cap, rotor, plugs and plug wires too.

When it's really cold outside, the engine is stalling as I back up and when I brake coming to a stop. Even after the engine has warmed up to operating temperature. It also stumbled twice yesterday on a short drive as I came out of a sharp curve I approached by braking and slowing down.

This is not a lean burn setup if that matters...

Now there is no manifold riser pipe going up to the air cleaner assembly and my van is equipped with the factory cold air snorkel that draws air from the front of the van. Could this be the issue? Could the idle too low cause this?

Could I have a misrouted spark plug wire or something causing it? I put on a good set of Taylor 8mm wires...

It's been so long since I've had a carb on an engine and I'm just not sure what to check. On a modern car I'd suspect the IAC module but on this, IDK...

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Spark plug wires should be fine, if wrong you would definitely notice. I don't have any other advice however

First, a 360 should have a Holley carb, not a Carter. Can you post a picture of your carb? A 1981 engine should have a heated air intake system on the air cleaner, even if it has the factory cold air intake system.

Could be a clogged exhaust crossover passage in the intake manifold, could be a misadjusted choke or float in the carb. Could be misadjusted timing, misadjusted idle.

Well, it is a Carter, little ol thing. This van was built with a 318 but in it's later years a 360 long block was put in it. It's been through several carbs also according to the records I have. I got the manifold riser pipe last night to put on since one isnt installed but the way the air cleaner housing sets it a tough path to even try to hook it up. There's even a metal tube from one looks like the A/C in the way. To have the air cleaner housing inlet over top of the manifold riser outlet I have to rotate the air cleaner housing a good bit. Then the snorkel doesn't want to fit.

I'll check my phone for a pic of the carb

My 360 came with a carter, but a 4 barrel thermoquad.

This stalling only happens when cold?
Like Reed said, I would check the floats, and choke takeoff, if there is one. Also check any vacuum lines comeing from the carb.
It sounds like when you stop, or reverse, the fuel is sloshing front or back, and not getting where it needs to be.
If it runs fine under load, My best guess would be fuel somewhere.
Do you smell fuel when it stalls?

The only shot I've got of the carb right now. Dark outside.

Not sure how it is since this started in warm weather. It was in the 50s today but I was fighting the rear shock install. Looks like the one bottom bracket hit something at one time and I couldn't get the bottom back in yet. Gave up in frustration and the dark. So, if I can get it back on tomorrow I'll give it a run around the valley to see. I seem to have lost the "ability" to work on old cars somewhere over the past years. What used to be routine stuff is kicking my butt on this van all the time. I mean shocks, come on. That should take like 10 minutes on the back. I am a retard, lol!

Don't know if this is normal or if the air cleaner housing needs to be rotated more to get the riser pipe on right?

I found your pocketknife for you

It has since been sucked into your carb, and is the cause of your stalling.

I can't even see the attachment point for the heat riser pipe on the Snorkel. Must be significantly different than mine.

Also it appears like the opening for your carb throat is significantly smaller than on my '89 318 TBI, but mine has to flow around the 2 injectors.

Hard to imagine that throat could properly feed a 360 above 2000 rpm.

LOL, that was my initial thought the first time I saw it too. I mean the sidedraft Solex carbs on my old BMW 2002tii had essentially 4 intakes that size feeding a little 2.0 liter engine.

I just haven't had the beast on a trip yet to even see if it will get the mpg's the previous seller said. It will pull at 55 mph just fine up the mountains for several miles. But I really do plan on opening that up once I get it all sorted out.

Only had a little time to mess with it today and that time was wasted messing with a rear shock. I think I have gotten dumber with old age vs wiser because I used to swap shocks all the time.

The two places for the pipe are in red. I wonder, with that dinky carb, if the air filter housing is non-standard too?

The filter housing looks to be the same as mine, except for throat diameter, and the input for the heater hose is more pronounced, and the Vacuum connector for activating the heater hose door is on the other side.

My E manifold portion rusted out long ago. I remade mine with coffee cans and rivets. The heater hoses break down and get too short as the ends frazzle. They are inexpensive, if it can't reach, get a longer one.

I use a hose clamp finger tight on mine to keep the upper end in place.

I live in a mild climate but can notice when this pipe is removed during engine warm up. It is just crustier.

Yeah, mine was like $6 at NAPA. 28 inches long so there should be plenty. I quick look today though showed a hard pipe off the A/C compressor right up against the inlet on the snorkel. The van was refitted with a new A/C setup and I may need to tweak something.


Yeah, a bit colder here than San Diego. Made a trip there once in my Army days, very nice city in my opinion and I normally hate cities.

OK. You need to get the correct carb onto your engine. That s probably most of your problem right there. THe Carter BBD you have on there is too small for a 360 and is not calibrated properly for the 360. You need to switch to a Holley two barrel like was put on the 360s in the 70s or switch to a Carter thermoquad. either option requires a new intake, a new air cleaner, and new kickdown linkage.

The red circles are the correct spots for the heated air intake system, but you also have to make sure all the hoses on the bottom of the air cleaner housing are routed properly to actuate the dorr in the floor of the snorkle to let in the heated air. You have the air cleaner rotated the correct way. On vans the fit for the silver heated air hose is very tight. On later air cleaner that actually made a little metal uct coming off the bottom of the snorkle that made it easier to connect it to the silver hose.

Check the throttle shaft on the carb for play. Also check the metering rod settings. Check all the choke settings and operation as well.

Are you sure about the intake needing changed? The current carb was put on in 2006. In 2004 though they put a Holley 64-3293 carb on it. The shop paperwork I have does not show a swap of intake manifolds when they did the last swap in 2006.

The four barrel carburetor will not mount on the two barrel intake. THe 360 was never manufactured with the Carter BBD installed stock. The two barrel carb the 360 used had a larger mounting bolt pattern than the Carter BBD. Ergo, you will need to change your intake manifold to run a proper carb.

A 318 intake will bolt up to a 360 engine, but the 318 carb is too small for the 360. Holley made a 2280 model carb that was a direct replacement for the Carter BBD. I don't know the list numbers offhand, but it is possible that the Holley carb that was installed in 2004 was a Holley 2280.

It looks like you have the correct air cleaner, intake, and carb for the original 318 engine. I'll say it again, that carburetor is too small and is not calibrated to feed a 360. To fix your problems correctly, you are are going to have to undo the mistakes of the previous owners and put a proper carburetor system on the engine.

Are you positive it is a 360 engine?

Yes, my '89 has a 90 degree bend under the door actuator that faces out the passenger door and connecting the heater hose is quite simple.

The coffee cans riveted together to form a manifold shroud with an outlet pipe, took a little more skill, but I get more practice every few years. Last time I incorporated a heat shield for my alternator in the riveted coffee can shroud . This was good for an extra ~ 5 amps at hot idle speed. My alternator cannot keep up with the lights and blower motor on high, at hot idle, so this 5 amps extra was significant.

James, looks like it is time to look for a new intake LA small block intake manifold for a 360.

Reed, didn't some people deliberately try and restrict carb sizes for max MPG? Not everybody is looking for low numbers on the 1/4 mile. I wonder if this was an attempt to eeek out more mileage at the sacrifice of power and perhaps driveability.

I know nothing about adjusting carbs, but perhaps this one can be dialed in better, constricted though it is.

I personally couldn't knowingly have more power on tap, and not at least have the ability to tap into it.
So get a proper 4 barrell on that thing and keep the pics coming, if it is indeed a 360.

I forget where the casting marks are, to tell definitively.

First things first, it is a 360. I checked the block and it's marked 360 at the end of the long numbers on the drivers side. Easy to see. I also have the purchase and build paperwork for when they got it.

I just had thought the mintakes for the 318/360 where the same for either a 2 barrel or 4 barrel setup. I didn't realize the 318 flowed less.

Weird thing is that the stalling is a new issue. It didn't do it when I got it, I've put several hundred miles on it and then it started. It even ran okay (for what it is)after the carb adjustment to get it through emissions. Probably ran it for a hundred miles or so after that before it started.

It started after I put in the plugs, wires, distributer, and cap last weekend. I thought it was just the cold temps but it did it yesterday too when I backed it out to work on it with the temps in the 50s.

Am I stuck with Ebay for the intake manifold? Didn't see a listing on rock auto. Is there anything specific I should make sure of when I buy one? Do the specific heads I have matter? I have been debating the 2 barrel vs 4 barrel since I got it. I really just want reliability and decent fuel economy without spending a ton on this old beast.

If I want speed I can get in my C5 Z06 vette, this beast is just for weekend getaways.

I do appreciate everyone's insight. My Dodge experience is with a bunch of turbo 4's back in the day and the old 1974 pickup we had on the farm growing up. I really am out of my league here on this thing. Thanks.

Check the plug wires and make sure there not crossing each other as they run along the valve covers.

Ebay is nice for some things, but you should be able to find a whole intake, carb and all, at almost any salvage yard in your area. Those 360's were in many vehicles. It would just need to be older. When they still had carbs.

You can go through the plugs, wires and so forth. You can even pull a plug to see if its running to lean, ergo, carb is to small. None of that should take long. My opinion, its fuel related.
For the fun of it, is the fuel filter newer?

Well I got all the plugs wires seperated with spacers. They are just close going into the cap. Funny thing is the wires I took off were a mess. Taped to each other, tie-wrapped together, folded over, etc. Plugs looked good too when I took them off.

I keep thinking and then forgetting about the fuel filter. I need to do that.

But this morning I changed rear shocks then fired it up and took it 16 miles to warm it up. No stalling, stumbling, nothing. Then I did an oil change, fired it up and it's stalling again. Let it warm up, and it kept stalling, took it around the block and it stalled a couple of times and stumbled bad one. Then it died as I was parking it. I don't get how it can run fine for 16 miles and then when nothing has been touched, not work?? Beginning to remember why I gave up on Dodges and went to foreign cars, LOL!

Oh, and no vacuum line on the snorkel for the heat riser door. It looks like the line should run from the temp sensor on the back of the intake to this but it's not there and most of the ports on the temp sensor are capped off.

Would be worth putting new fuel filter on, kind of sounds like a fuel problem

Wonder if the choke is working properly.
If its not releasing, it could choke it out after its warm.
Normally when it happened to me, it chokes out, if the rpms drop. If your foots in it, it stays running.
Is this the case for you?

For sure, I keep meaning to do this and then get distracted with other things. I think there's even a new one that came with the van.

How's you coil? Supposedly Dodge 360/318 coils are semi "notorious" for having intermittent issues. I had that problem with my '95. Don't ask how much I spent trying to find the "problem."
Mine would run 500 miles, die. Fire up, run another 300 miles and die. Eventually, it got to the point where it only took five miles before it would die. It almost always restarted.
Good luck.

Check and see if the idle speed screw is actually touching the bellcrank, in not turn the screw in till it touches and find the intake leak. May need to consider correct pvc valve? (one with a smaller orifice) to get idle speed down. If wrong carb, the little goodies to keep it running are missing (dashpot(GM term), ect.) While at the bellcrank wiggle it, are the throttle shaft bushings worn out?(intake leak) It's not uncommon to snap the throttle shut and it stalls if the butterflies are completely closed.

Sorry I respond sooner. My brother and I spent all day cleaning and organizing my garage. It still needs more work, but it is getting there.

Anyway, back to your van. Since you are not overly familiar with carbs, I recommend you either go for a stock carburetor setup or go for something that has very good aftermarket support. Since thermoquads are hard to find in affordable and good condition, I recommend you get an Edelbrock Performer intake and an Edelbrock Performer 500 CFM carb. That will be the most easily obtainable and affordable intake and carb. You also need to track down a stock air cleaner that will fit the four barrel air cleaner. You want to keep the closed air cleaner, cold air intake, and heated air intake provisions of your stock air cleaner.

You may or may not need to get a different kick down linkage depending on what is on there now and what carb you get. If you do need a kick down linkage, i recommend the Lokar cable style kick down.

Reed, since this is once it's warmed up, do you suppose he might actually be vapor locking the fuel line, or his kickdown might be seriously out of adjustment, what with the wrong carb and who knows what plumbing and all?

And just imagine all the mischief the vapor canister hoses and bowl vent might have...

You could always try my favorite simple overlooked fuel system test; crack open your fuel tank cap when your engine is misbehaving and wants to stall; sometimes a faulty fuel cap vent valve can lead to developing a vacuum inside your fuel tank.

Here's a couple of pictures I took a few years ago of the top of my 318 engine, which has the 2-barrel Holley 2280 carb Reed mentioned. These pictures show the shape you'll need to bend your heated air intake hose into.





I hope those are of some help!

Try disconnecting and plugging the vacuum hose going to the power brake booster. Power brake boosters can fail internally and cause a BIG vacuum leak when the brakes are applied. Be sure to plug the line so there is no leak at the engine.

The BBD only flows about 280 CFM. This is just far too small a flow rate to properly feed a 360. I don't know what kind of tuning had to be done to get it to pass emissions, but if he intends on keeping the BBD he is going to have to fine tune at least the metering rod adjustment.
I also do think the kickdown adjustment should at least be inspected and verified. I don't know what all was done to mate the kick down to the BBD carb, so I recommend inspecting the kick down closely.

It might be vapor lock, but I doubt it. He says it happens when the engine is cold and he is backing out of his driveway. Vapor lock wouldn't be an issue when it is cold. the charcoal canister/bowl vent hoses are actually pretty benign. They are very beneficial both to your vehicle and the environment, so I recommend keeping them hooked up and functioning properly. However, again, who knows what was done to mate the BBD to the 360. I don't have much faith that whoever thought putting a 318 carb on a 360 was a good idea would hook the hoses up correctly.

If I read his original post correctly, the stumbling seems to happen whenever he applies the brakes. To me, this suggests a failed power brake booster. but I could be wrong. It is always difficult to diagnose a vehicle over the internet.

You might be on to something Reed. The brakes have sucked in my opinion. Even though there is plenty of meat on all the pads/shoes and the rotors, etc look fine. The pedal feels hard too. I believe there are several tests in the FSM that helps diagnose a failed booster so I can see what happens running those too. Not that it solves the whole carb issue.

Well, if the brake booster has failed, it will cause a vacuum leak which causes the motor to run poorly and stall. if the motor runs fine until you step on the brakes, then the booster might be the cause of all your problems.

It stalls too just idling. I'm getting an inductive tach so I can check idle speed. I look at the service history though and see how many times they have been replacing and servicing the carbs since the swap to the 360 and I think it's all like you say. The wrong carbs/intake and folks just keep chasing thier tail trying to make it work. No matter what I need to get the right setup on here because I'll be taking this beast to a lot of remote areas and I need it to get me in and out trouble-free.

Gonna check the booster though too. May not get back on the vehicle though until the weekend.

Is it logical to assume that since this carb is too small for the engine it may well make sense that the idle needs to be set higher than factory spec to keep it idling? Just wondering if I should set it a bit higher until I sort all this out and get a new setup on it.

Another guestions if I may? I want to replace the vacuum line to the snorkel so that flapper door works right. I notice in the picture above that there's a diagram looking device of some sort in line on that vacuum hose. What is that and do I need to source one of those also?

Thanks!

Not necessarily. The first things I always check when dealing with a BBD that has drivability issues are the wear on the throttle shaft bores and the metering rod setting.

BBDs are notorious for the throttle shaft bores in the base plate "ovalling" out over several decades of use. This makes the throttle shaft loose in the carb body and leads to air/vacuum leaks as well as fuel leaks if the bores get worn enough. The good news is that any competent machine shop or carb rebuild shop should be able to rebush the throttle shaft bores easily and fairly cheaply.

An often overlooked and misunderstood adjustment on BBDs is the metering rod setting. The metering rods ride on a plastic cam that is underneath the bowl vent cover. The cam is held in place by a set screw and is adjustable. Very often people either don't set or set the metering rods incorrectly when a carb is rebuilt. The metering rods must be adjusted correctly. You may want to set your metering rods a little higher than the stock setting so the carb runs a hair richer since it is installed on a 360 instead of a 318.

HERE is a great manual on how to rebuild and adjust a Carter BBD. However, I wouldn't get to involved until you check the throttle shaft bore wear.

If the engine stalls idling, I suggest looking for a constant vacuum leak, checking the idle mixture, checking the idle speed, and checking the base timing. What is your vacuum at hot idle?

The device in the vacuum line is likely a check valve. As far as I know, there are a deal for junkyard only item. But I could be wrong.

Cool, I will sort all this out when I can. I need to get an inductive tach of some sort to check idle. It's been decades since I've had a carb and the like so I've got to relearn it all and get the needed tools again. Just like a timing light. Had one but got rid of it years ago I guess.

Yep. You are going to need a timing light, a vacuum gauge, and a tachometer, at a minimum. I always install a permanent tach, vacuum gauge, and oil pressure gauge in all of my cars.

The filter-like item in the vacuum hose is a one-way vacuum delay valve, so don't toss it based on arbitrarily trying to blow through it!

When you floor your accelerator pedal, (which you may do a lot with a 2-bbl carb on a 360!) the vacuum in the manifold becomes very slight, which would cause the flapper valve to relax, moving to an incorrect position, so the delay prevents it from moving for a while to improve drivability. These black and white valves provide about a minute long delay.

The flapper valve on these Dodge vans attempts to maintain an average air temperature of about 100 degrees at the carb, so the air to fuel ratio isn't as prone to fluctuation based on air density changing with outside air temperature. It significantly improves engine operation during warmup too.

It's a shame so many people disconnect or allow their heated air inlet system to fall into disrepair; they really are valuable!

Here's the best description of the identification of vacuum delay valves I've ever found; apparently it was extracted from Chrysler service info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_delay_valve

And I totally agree with Reed; keep looking for vacuum leaks. Why I'd mentioned the vapor canister hoses in my original post is that they often rupture near the canisters, creating an enormous vacuum leak. Being at some distance from the engine, and under the body, these are too often overlooked, and lead to crazy adjustments of the carb and timing to try to compensate. The control diaphragm in the main canister can also rupture, creating a very substantial and totally hidden leak.

Really, on an aged vehicle, especially a seriously molested one like yours, you'll want to test every single system and hose. Using the tests as outlined in an original service manual is the best way to go about this process. I opted for a digitized original service manual on CD rom, which I purchased from these nice folks:

http://www.moparmanuals.com/mopar/main/home.asp

Well, I only got a little bit of time on it this afternoon but checked a few things. The Brake booster tested out fine on all the tests I ran.

I picked up an inductive tach and it looks like the engine is idling at about 1100 when cold and then once warmed up it's at 650-660. This seems too low according to the specs I found. Is that right?

Still hunting for a delayed vacuum valve for the snorkel vacuum line but have the hosing to run that. I'll at least test the flapper this weekend. Gonna change the fuel filter too.

Went over a lot of the vacuum lines. For the most part they look fairly new, soft and supple. I did find one bad hose coming off the primary evaporative cannister. It's a small line that goes from the cannister to a hard fuel line like pipe on the frame that appears to be running to the back of the van. There's a split in the hose with something like varnish (fuel?) where the split is. This is right where it attaches to the hard pipe. I didn't see a diagram of this in my FSM but I wonder it it's a fuel tank vent? Someone has messed with the canisters in the past because between them and the rail is a piece of fuel line like a damper. Maybe they were rattling? Anyway.

Since you have an '81 B250, which is also what I have, I suspect your hose routing diagram will be fairly similar to mine even though you have a 360 and I have a 318.

Actually since you said you had a 318 at one time, yours may even be identical to mine... though once again, I have the Holley 2280 2-barrel carb.



This is a version I cleaned up; mine doesn't have the OSAC or air pump systems.



You may want to really scrutinize the hose routing at the carb to make sure your distributor is on the correct vacuum port, such as ported versus manifold vacuum. Things can go very wrong here when a carb has been removed or swapped; when I first got my van, the knuckle dragging previous owner had succeeded in installing the vacuum hoses rotated around the carb body by 90 degrees! It did *not* work properly...


I agree with you on the split hose (BTW - good catch!) being the vent line. The evap canisters should never see liquid fuel. But even fuel vapors are quite harsh on rubber; this area always fails eventually!


Out of curiosity; does your van still have the three tap type fuel filter? It vents air in the fuel and lines back to the tank, helping reduce vapor lock.

Time to go get some bulk vacuum line I guess. Guess I'll get some of all sizes since each drive to town is about 30 miles round trip.

Not sure about the fuel filter yet. I haven't seen it. The new one that came with the van is the 3 tap design but I don't know what's currently on it. In all honesty I haven't seen/found the fuel filter yet. I do know I have what looks like a brand new unattached fuel line that ends at the side of the engine on the passenger side. Not sure what that's all about yet. I do know the guy I got the van from said when he got it the previous owner had an intake and TBI setup for it. I wish that had come with the van.

Ok, I got curious so I took a flashlight out and found the filter. It's the 3 port design still so that's a good thing. For some reason though, the inside of my engine is not as clean and colorful as yours, LOL!

I'm still curious why you said you're still hunting for the vacuum delay valve for your heat riser; I see the correct black/white one one in your picture. Is it broken?

You also have the temperature sensor in the interior of the air cleaner housing, so it would seem to me you'd be good to go provided you attach the hose to the correct port on the carburetor.

When you say there's an unattached fuel line at the side of the engine, that sounds genuinely scary! There should be no such thing... if it has any vapors, you could be sitting on a bomb!

The one large line was meant for vapor/air return to the tank from the fuel filter, while the other larger line was the fuel feed to the pump. The tiny brake line size hose was the evaporative canister vapor return to the tank.

If any of these lines were split open or left unattached, it might be well worth your while to blow through them with compressed air to make sure they haven't become obstructed by mud or insects. There's an especially perverse little spider living here called a yellow sack spider, which actually likes the smell of gasoline vapors. One of the import car makers had to issue a recall due to failures of their fuel tank venting due to these spiders plugging up the vents!!

It may be best for you take a few pictures of this area so we can be absolutely certain of what you've actually got.

Oh, and be wary of the hoses around the evaporative canisters for another reason - in one of the hoses there is a device which appears to be a splice, which you might be tempted to discard thinking its plugged. It's a port restrictor! There's one of them in the vacuum line between the carb and the vacuum amplifier too...

LOL, I just went out and looked and you are totally correct. Someone has that attached to the side of the carb and then running to this device.



Right now that vacuum line come off a port on the passenger side of the carb to the back of the above device. And on the front is what looks like an open port. Guess I need to run this properly and found out what else goes into this device.

I wonder what else is run wrong? Thanks for catching that. I just saw nothing plugged into the snorkel and assumed it was all pulled.

That's your vacuum solenoid valve. It may be plumbed correctly; try to follow the hose diagram. The open port would have originally had a foam filter on it to keep debris out. I made my own filter from a foam lawn mower air filter I picked up at a Lowes in their lawn mower section. That green foam is relatively fuel and oil proof; mines been good for at least 5 years.

In the diagrams I sent earlier, the physical components are laid out in approximately their correct physical location in relation to each other. The device next to the vacuum solenoid is the vacuum amplifier, for instance.

The carburetor port which indicates "to temperature sensor" is the one which should have the hose that goes to the bottom of the little "UFO" shaped silver button device mounted in the bottom of your air cleaner, behind the carb opening.

That's the temperature sensor which does the work of switching the flapper valve up and down to maintain the 100 degree average temperature of the incoming air.


You might want to check my previous message; I think I was editing it to add more details when you sent your reply. I'm usually up so late that nobody else is around so that doesn't happen, but I'm on "early" tonight.

-Early by Vanner's and Musician's standards, at least! ;0)

BTW, it appears to me that your oil pressure sending unit is not connected!!

That's a *bad* thing!!

It's the vertical cylinder behind your spark coil. The wire should attach to the little metal stub at the very tip of the cylinder.

Look around the backside of the engine near the spark coil for a little plastic encased terminal at the end of a wire. On your van it would most likely be a single white wire.

Attach it by sliding it on sideways onto the stud. Hopefully your stock oil pressure gauge will begin working then.

It may be that the foreign looking pipe underneath that is to feed an aftermarket oil pressure gauge... what have you got for oil pressure monitoring?

Ok, so that open port on the vacuum soleniod should have a plug, right? I assumed that's what the rectangle with "x"s inside meant but wasn't sure. I bought some plugs yesterday. Good catch on the oil sender. It's been disconnected by a previous owner. But like you also saw, there is a real oil gauge mounted in the van so no worries.

I don't think that "extra" fuel line is plumbed to anything but that's on the list to check today when I'm back under it. I gave it a sniff test the first time I saw it and couldn't detect any fumes but I keep forgetting to trace it back. It's no excuse but my last concussion left me messed up to include having a hard time staying focused on things so even though I see that I need to check/do something, 2 seconds later my mind goes elsewhere. I'm making a list today to check things off with so that I don't have to rely on my mind. It's a coping thing I have to do nowdays.

Oops, I shouldn't read and respond before my morning coffee. You clearly stated what to do with that open port, thanks!

Ok, the "extra" fuel line is actually the main run to the cannisters. The one that branches off to both. So I need a vacuum fitting to mate it to the vent on the carb. The hard metal port for this on the carb pulled right out unfortunately. More reason to get the right carb on I guess. Then the lines to the heated air were run all wrong. Got that right now. But also, once I fixed the heated air setup I saw that there's a line totally missing from the vacuum solenoid. Gotta put a tee into that line that loops back into the carb and then run a new line to the solenoid. Then replace the split line underneath and at least all the vacuum runs will be back to stock. I do appreciate the help!

Well, all for naught! So all vacuum now run properly. New fuel filter also. Yet it's still dies under idle some and when put into gear. Of course the mixture could be all jacked up since the carb was adjusted with all that vacuum stuff messed up. Or maybe that's why that had it running so rich at idle when I got it and first tried to pass emissions. Who knows? So even though I am frustrated that I ultimately did not get anywhere today, at least I know that I actually did fix some issues. I think I'm just taking it down to my mechanic and telling him to go to town before this thing gives me a heart attack.

Can you post a clearer picture of your distributor? The plugs behind the distributor do not look right to me and it looks like something unfortunate has been done to your van. A clear picture of the plugs around the distributor will let me know for sure.

I know you said your van does not have lean burn on it now, but did your van EVER have a lean burn system?

Not sure what you are looking for but here you go.

I have the original Manufacturer Equipment Label and the original order form. The van was delivered to Utah.

It states "Electronic Ignition System". I don't see "lean burn" anywhere. The order form has a "HC5 - Emissions Reduction Control System" area but this was not selected when they ordered.

You're making progress, and that's a lot more than the previous owner had done!

It may seem overwhelming to have so many things to investigate all at once, but as you weed out the multiple issues, your van will begin to behave more consistently, then it will actually begin to behave positively and predictably. To get there you just need to have the patience and attention to detail which the previous owner didn't.

You've found probably the best place there is for advice on these vintage vehicles, as we still use them frequently and have become familiar with most of their quirks.


You would likely be able to reinsert that metal tube (aka "nipple") back into your carburetor by applying a little bit of epoxy around the outside of the metal tube prior to insertion. It's only got vacuum on it, so the epoxy won't be exposed to liquids, and there's very little strain on that sort of metal nipple.

There are three hoses/pipes going back to the fuel tank; if *any* of them are open, you have another vacuum leak! The tank isn't open to the atmosphere under normal operating conditions.

You may need to make up some of those vapor canister hose fittings using parts from a hardware store plumbing section. I'd found that the combination of sizes of hose Chrysler used wasn't matching with the typical plastic "Y" and "T" fittings in the automotive parts stores...

In particular, the very hose you seem to be missing is a special one, which Chrysler described in their parts lists as the "hose, fuel vapor tube to canister - expanded end". Having an "expanded end" is the catch with this part! I had to make up a special splice out of the correct sized brass barbed nipples and a brass union to adapt to the correct size hoses for each end - 5/16" at one end, 3/16" at the other.




There was a second hose with an expanded end like that too, so if you go to replace the hoses, be prepared to take samples of your hoses to a hardware store to match up the sizes.


Once these vacuum issues have been dealt with, by all means check your mixture, idle speed, and timing. If it was way out of adjustment, as it likely was due to all the vacuum leaks, you may find yourself having to repeat the process of checking them several times.

To begin with, on a poorly adjusted system, it's generally a good idea to look down into the carburetor and make sure the throttle plate is in fact fully closed after depressing the accelerator pedal fully once... If its not, your idle RPM setting will be in conflict with the mixture settings, causing a lot of headaches and seemingly unresponsive adjustments!

Then make sure the choke linkage is moving freely without binding, and that the choke plate gap and kick adjustments are correct.


Have you investigated the throttle rod adjustment (aka "kickdown" adjustment) yet? I'd almost guarantee it's not going to be right since you have an incorrect carburetor.

Here's the procedure for the gear shift linkage adjustment and throttle rod adjustment, along with a diagram of the correct part names.








It's actually much simpler than it sounds! For the throttle rod adjustment, basically you just loosen the lock screw on the swivel, and make sure the throttle lever is pushed all the way forwards by pressing on it. The spring automatically pushes the throttle rod out to the correct position, (if it's not all rusted together in the swivel at least!) then you tighten the lock screw again. Job done!!

I always recommend blocking the wheels so the van won't be able to roll when you're underneath it.



I found a picture of the foam lawnmower filter I used to make a filter for my vacuum solenoid.



I cut a piece of filter with scissors, then punched a hole into the filter material with a drill bit, then put some silicon cement on the outside of the plastic nipple and slid the filter on. It's been good for years.


In addition to the pictures Reed suggested, I'd like to see a picture of the firewall in your engine compartment, to see what sort of electronics modules you may have. A picture of the carb from directly overhead would be helpful too. For instance there had been a throttle kick solenoid on the carburetors in this vintage of van, and if it or it's control module is not there or not working, stalling at low RPMs is the most common symptom, especially when an air conditioner is in use. You can see the gold colored solenoidin the background on the left in this picture:

Looks like the dual pickup distributor to me. I wonder if it was the original one with the advance curve for the 318?

Niko just went through one of these dual pickup distributors which had substantial wear and totally stuck internal parts; might be worth cleaning it up inside and lubricating the felt and bushings, and checking the reluctor gaps.

Well, I went with a crazy sorta long multisize vacuum splice from autozone that allowed me to mate to two off size hoses together. Typical step down vacuum pieces didn't fit like you said. I think I now have all that plumbed. I'll pick up epoxy tomorrow to seal that up.

According to the records I have the distributor was replaced in 2006 about 5 years after the 360 was put in. Hopefully it's the right one but who knows? I've never been in a distributor so I guess I need to study up on that.

I'll check the linkage stuff tomorrow to. Was trying to tell as I test drove today if it was kicking down as I stopped. It actually stalled once after idling fro 5 minutes and then once in reverse. I then did about 15 miles with several stops and no problems. Guess that's part of the problem is it's not consistent. Makes it harder to troubleshoot.

I'll shoot the firewall in the morning when I have light.

There were some ignition systems that had dual pickups and vacuum advance in the distributor. Unfortunately, the van was built over 30 years ago and you KNOW the motor has been swapped. Who knows what else was done in there? The intermittent stalling you are experiencing seems to me like an electrical component failing. Did you replace both the start and run pickups in the distributor? Are both distributor pickups hooked up to something?

You might benefit considerably from reading through this section of the recent thread on Niko's distributor. It was a spectacular example of what can go wrong with one, and how determination and attention to detail can work wonders in bringing something back from well beyond the brink!

https://www.vanning.com/threads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/681238

The only substantial difference between your distributor, and hers and mine, is that you have the non-adjustable vacuum advance canister. That's a non-issue to all intents and purposes.

Ok, I'll get some pics up in a bit. I don't remember seeing that throttle kick solenoid but I will look.

Gonna pull up the tests for the coil today and check that while I am in there. I noticed yesterday as I buttoned things up that it's vibrating like crazy at certain engine speeds. Looked like the bracket wasn't mounted right. So I want to look into that and might as well take a meter to the coil. The whole stalling thing started when I changed plugs,wires, caps, and rotor. Until then I had driven the thing a couple hundred miles without any issues. Gonna rerun all the wires today too.

Then I'll got into the distributor. I just hope I don't break nothing. I live in a small mountain valley with no mechanic at all. So if I break it it's a long tow to the other side of the mountains for help.

What should I use inside the distributor for lube?

Are the pickups specific to the vehicle or pretty much standard? Just wondering if I can expect to find them locally if I go into town or if I need to order them.

And shouldn't there be a tag on the tranny somewhere identifying what it is? I didn't see one yesterday. That's been changed over the years too.

You know I just thought of something. I put the platinum plugs in that night without checking the gap. A "mechanic" buddy said you can't gap the single platinum's and come to think of it I just didn't bother to check into that. It was late at night and I just wanted to get it done. I wonder...

Definitely check the plug gap.

I've heard that these engines "don't like" certain types of plugs too...

For lubrication inside the distributor you just use regular engine oil on the bushing surfaces and on the felt which is located under the rotor in the hollow shaft.

If you lift up the pickup plate you'd use oil on the weight's bushings, and possibly a drop on each end of both springs. Don't over lubricate, it will just sling around and make a mess. I usually apply some, work the part back and forth, then wipe off any excess.

That felt is too often overlooked, so make sure the weight/governor assembly isn't stuck on the shaft like Niko's was.

The pickups are pretty generic. Summit racing even sell them last time I looked. I think they're even the same pickups used in many of the MSD distributors.

The gap between the reluctor teeth and the pickups is absolutely critical - don't estimate here! Too close and things get broken, too wide and the ignition may not function reliably.

I can see in the picture that you have an ECT emissions control timer (which controls the vacuum solenoid) and another module which is most likely the sort of ETC electronic throttle controller I was talking about (it's the module up on top)

The ETC timer in particular was expensive; they wouldn't have installed one if your van didn't need it! When it's running and the engine has just dropped to a low idle speed from a higher speed, you'll hear a high-pitched whine. It drives a solenoid on the side of the carb which pushes against the throttle linkage to prevent the idle speed from dropping too low under load. It's specific intent is to prevent low speed stalling. If I recall correctly it boosts the RPMs by about 250, for about 5 seconds, then it relaxes, allowing the throttle to drop to it's normal hot idle RPMs, though it's been a while since I looked.

It looks like someone has replaced your voltage regulator too; it's the module farthest to the left.

Something to keep in mind is that Chrysler uses the metal cans of all these modules and the engine control unit as their electrical ground. While I wouldn't place them high on the list of immediate suspects since your issue began after replacing the plugs, wires, etc., it may be worth your time one day soon to run their mounting bolts out and back in to be sure they're making a solid electrical connection to the firewall metal. Dodge vans are infamously notorious for developing crippling grounding issues due to these bolts losing contact. Retightening the bolts often results in restoring new van behavior.

The start and run pickups are different. The run pickup is the normal Moapr EI pickup, but the Start pickup uses a different plug.

You guys are an astounding wealth of knowledge, awesome!

The voltage regulator and alternator where changed right before I bought the van. Supposedly something went wrong when the 30 amp circuit of the van was plugged into a guys house who was also looking at buying it. All the A/C worked fine for me at the owner's house later.

I didn't get a chance to touch it today. I spent the day taking down Christmas lights and doing other yard work as spring has decided to come early to northern Utah this year.

I have ordered a can of deoxit and plan to go over as many connectors as I can get to. I'll clean and rerun those mounting bolts also while I am at it and check all the grounds.

Hopefully tomorrow I get to do all the stuff you guys suggested.

You will get jamesdak, hang in there

One question about the "throttle Kickdown solenoid", is this specific to the stock A/C unit? The van was converted to R134 several years back. I did power the A/C on and off yesterday with the van idling and the engine didn't die. But there was barely a noticeable change when I turned on the A/C so I wouldn't be surprised if that was not working either.

I'll get the picks from above the carb taken tomorrow even though I hate taking off the air cleaner. That bigger bottom hose coming out the air cleaner is a pain in the butt to get back in, LOL! And the very tight fitting riser pipe.

hang with these guys, they will get you there, there smart (smile) your going to work it out

Ok, first things first, no kickdown solenoid. Just the EGR over there. Looked inside the carb and the throttle plates are closed and pretty much clean. Couldn't get any play on the shaft. Oh, and the coil mount bracket is jacked up. Mounted with one bolt only so it vibrates band and not even the tightening bolt to tighten it around the coil. The side that's not mounted is a good bit off from the hole in the intake though so maybe it's the wrong part.

Ok, here's what I saw in startup. I press the pedal to the floor once and the choke closed all the way. Then as soon as it fired the choke opened about 1/4-1/2 inch and it died. On cold start I always have to catch it with the pedal to get it going. But once it fired it was also trying to cold idle at 650 and dying. It was like there was no fast idle at all??

It's now warmed up and idling higher actually at around 770 according to my cheap harbor freight inductive tach. It did idle for about 5 minutes then died. Started right back up and is idling now though.

Going after the kickdown adjustment now, oh and there it goes dying again, gotta love it.

Kickdown was off a good bit but easy to fix. Now if it would just quit dying at idle. Gonna go test drive and see what happens.

Well, it doesn't seem to stall on the road anymore since I fixed all the vacuum stuff the other day. Just did several more miles on it. In fact I can leave it in drive and just let it idle with my foot off the gas pedal and it justs keeps going and going in drive. Did it too in reverse with no issue, it idled back about 100 ft. A tad of a stumble when I gave it a bit of gas after idling back but that's it. Maybe it is nothing more than adjusting the carb again now that all the vacuum lines are fixed?

Guess I need to try that again. Did it once but think I was doing it all wrong. Not sure what all to disconnect and/or plug and then the best place for the vacuum guage. Last time I just used one of the plugged ports off the vacuum tee on the backside of the manifold. Hmmm, I should look at what a good vacuum reading is on the engine at idle too so I can tell if I've pretty much found all the vacuum stuff.

Time to reread the previous posts and see what else I can address today with the time I have.

Oh, and here's a side view of where I think you said the "kickdown" solenoid would be. I have nothing but the EGR there.

Thee is no "kick down" solenoid, but there is a "dashpot" or "idle stop solenoid." The solenoid on the side of the carb kicked a plunger out and increased the curb idle RPM by about 100 RPM when the AC as on. When the AC was off, the plunger stayed retracted and the idle was controlled by the idle speed screw.

it is a nice piece to have, and your van probably had one originally, but it is not absolutely critical. If your engine will idle in drive with the AC on, you are fine.

The kick down is a linkage between the carb throttle arm and the level on the transmission. With the carburetor opened fully, the lever on the transmission should be pushed all the way to the rear of the van. If it isn't, adjust it so it is.

You scared me there for a second Reed, LOL! The kickdown lever is to the front which is what I did. I think the gear selector is to the rear all the way.

I also released the speedometer cable from the back of the gauge and fired some PB blaster inside. My jumping speedometer needle is now gone! Now if it just read right.

I also jumped under the front and started cleaning the thick accumulated crud on all the steering and suspension pieces. Wanted to grease everything. But I found torn boots on both ends of the drag link. One's not too bad but the other was was split clean through despite still being there. Just ordered a whole new Moog draglink on wholesale closeout at rock auto for $13. The shipping is costing me more, LOL!

Weird, just found this bearing sitting on the battery. Now I've not seen one like this and have replaced the battery so I suspect it's something the garage left there when the one time I had it in for some work. Someone lost a bearing, LOL!

The next mystery is figuring out what these plugs went/go to? Time to dig through the manual but I don't remember seeing wiring diagrams.

Well crap, just looked at the diagram of the Carter BBD in the FSM. I've still got to vacuum lines wrong off the carb. I have the port that's supposed to run to the OSAC Valve or ESA Vacuum Transducer run to the canister I believe. And then I don't know what's running off the bowl vent to canister. I used the diagram under the hood but messed up the ports on the carb I guess, jeesh.

Crap, I am tired, frustrated and maybe confused. I ended my day working on the van without having uttered a single cuss word and now I just want to get drunk! So best I can tell the port on the front of the carb is supposed to be for the vapor canister purge port. Yet on mine the hose loops around the carb and goes directly to the vacuum on the side of the distributor. And then I have the canister connected to the OSAC Valve port. This is also the one that pulled out of the carb body the other day and then one I was going to fix temporarily with some metal epoxy. Will this still work. Do I just have these two lines swapped? Oh and I have no OSAC Valve anywhere that I can find. From everything I see this is normally on the side of the air cleaner housing. Anyway, work tomorrow so ending the day on a down note, freak!

Bypassing/ignoring the OSAC is fine. It will help performance and fuel economy. The fitting on the side of the carb that the manual says goes to the OSAC should reconnected directly to the vacuum pod on the distributor.

The nipple between the mixture screws on the front of the carb goes to the canister purge port.

I bet a dollar that the firing that pulled out of the carb body is the bowl vent valve that should also be connected to the charcoal canister.

You will also have a line for the EGR vacuum supply (cap it for now) and the heated air door on the air cleaner (cap it for now as well).

On the rear of the carb towards the bottom, there is a nipple that gets a constant vacuum full signal at all times. This connects to the choke pulloff diaphragm.

This link gets you to a downloadable manual for the BBD. It is a very good service manual.
https://app.box.com/s/15dt5qav20ccxcnzp9e4

You definitely need to get all the hoses routed correctly. Use this diagram as a guide:

You might find this helpful:

Outstanding Reed and just the picture I needed, thanks! I had a different version or whatever of the BBD but things weren't matching up. And according to the drawing things are hooked up wrong still.

Basically on the front between the mixture screws is the cannister purge fitting. But on mine that is ran to the vacuum. Then on the passenger side the distributor fitting is where I had plugged in the second cannister line that as just sitting unconnected. So those two are swapped, easy enough to fix.

But the fitting that pulled out of the carb the other day is the distributor fitting. I was going to do as suggested in an early post and try and reseat it with some metal expoxy. Is that a good idea since it's not the bowl vent fitting like we thought earlier?

I still need to get a proper carb and intake on this but am trying to find out if there are emissions issues if I don't use stock parts and go with an Edelbrock type setup. Utah has really strict laws on this now.

And I don't seem to have the EGR fitting shown in the diagram. My EGR is getting vacuum from the vacuum amplifier. Also the tee off the choke vacuum diaphragm is run to the vacuum amplifier.

The EGR gets its vacuum from the vac. amp., and the vac. amp. gets a vacuum signal (reference) from the fitting on the carb. The carb *might* predate EGR systems, but I recommend looking again for the fitting. Neither the EGR or vacuum amplifier should be getting the signal the choke pulloff gets. If you don't have the proper EGR fitting on the carb, leave the amplifier and EGR disconnected.

Put the distributor fitting back in with a light coating of RTV gasket maker around the outside of the fitting end that goes into the carb. Put enough on so it will seal and hold the fitting in place, but not so much that it will block the passage in the carb.

It is important that you hook up all the vacuum lines correctly. If the carb doesn't have a fitting for the hose, don't connec it.

I didn't even think about the RTV gasket maker and I'm pretty sure I've got a tube lying around the house. I'll get that done and let it cure.

You know part of the problem is that the label under my hood is exactly like the first one Ram4ever post back on page 4 of all of this. It's in direct conflice with what the info on the carb says to do. But I will follow the carb diagram.


Oh, and I mistyped last night. The tee off the choke vacuum is running to the vacuum solenoid not the amplifier. I will look again for the EGR fitting tonight but I went out there three times last night and just didnt' see it. I'll take the reading glasses tonight, LOL!

I was fighting a killer migraine yesterday so I didn't do much after work.

The problem with going by the underhood sticker is that you no longer have the original carburetor on the van. Your van likely had a Holley 2280 when new, not a Carter BBD. It is unknown at this point what year BBD you have. The BBD was used from the 60s through the 80s with many variations over the years. You have to match the vacuum connections to what ports are present on the carb.

Can you post some pictures of the carb from several angles?

Yep, I'll get the pics done this evening as long as nothing gets in the way. It does look just like the pics you posted other than the EGR fitting either not being there or me missing.

I do know that under where it said it was a Carter carb were the numbers 0-2361 and then further to the back of the carb body was the number 4.

But I'll pull the air cleaner off this evening and then shoot the pics and post them up.

Ok, here come the pics. If definitely does not have that EGR port on the back. Not sure what that means though...

And more...

Ouch, who bent up your choke thermostat rod? That needs to be replaced. And your choke vacuum pull off isn't adjusted right either.

That red triangular aluminum tag is the list number for your carb. I don't have a reference book that lists that part number, but that is most likely an early 70s carburetor that predates EGR valves.

The fitting that pulled out is definitely the carburetor vacuum advance nipple. Otherwise, that carb should be close enough to what you need.

Yeah, I found a reference on line that dated the carb to 1978.

I'll get the fitting back on and solid and then tidy up all the vacuum lines based on the image you provided earlier. Then I'll go after that choke and check the rest of the carb tuning too. Hopefully get all that done by Saturday, hard to do much on a workday.

Going to call the county emissions office this week to and see if there's a way to get approved for a simple manifold/carb swap vs having to source Mopar type parts with all the ability to hook up the emissions stuff.

Be sweet and easy to just pop on an edelbrock manifold, 500 cfm carb and generic air cleaner and say done.

No way that is a 78 carb. Early 70s at the latest. A 78 carb would have a different bowl vent valve and would have the EGR fitting.

LOL, yeah, that 8 should be a 3 and looked like it when I typed it last night, 1973. Best I could find it was used from late 60s to 1973.

I did repair that fitting last night. I'll let it cure until tomorrow morning and then sort out the vacuum lines. After that I'll check the tune of the carb and the choke and see how it acts.

I've also got the relays in for the headlights and will be doing that this weekend too. While I'm messing with the electrical I'll clean up as many connectors as I can, check grounds, etc.

Ok, the tee marked ESA Vacuum source I have running to the back of the vacuum solenoid which is beside the vacuum amplifier. Is it even needed? I added the tee last week and put in that run based on the diagram under the hood. They had a vacuum line on the solenoid but I forget where it was running.

Since your carb does not have the correct port to send the signal to the EGR system, I would cap or remove the tee fitting you installed and don't worry about the vacuum solenoid and amplifier.

I did. I was playing with the EGR earlier and seen how much smoother the engine seemed to run without it connected. So I capped it off. It seems to be driving fine with no stalling as I stop or anything. But it still just dies when in park and idling. Not sure what is causing it. I cleaned as many connectors as I could today too and backed out, cleaned, and then remounted the bolts for the ignition module. Mixture seemed fine and it's idling around 700 or so with the EGR off. Not sure where else to go.

Wonder how hard it is to swap the intake and carb? I don't seem to be having much luck mechanically lately...

I would up the idle to 750 in park/neutral. Then I would start hunting for vacuum leaks and misadjusted choke linkages. Check the throttle shaft in the base of the carb. If you can wiggle it up and down or side to side at all the carb needs to get rebushed around the throttle shaft. Does the vacuum operated choke pulloff hold a vacuum? Does the distributor vacuum advance hold a vacuum? I know your choke linkages need to be adjusted. Have you verified your base timing and the accuracy of your timing mark?

Swapping the intake and carb is easy, but you need to make sure and get a kick down linkage that will work for your final carb application.

Talk to me about the choke linkage, what am I missing here?

The throttle shaft was checked last week and seems fine.

Still have to get a vacuum tester so I can apply vacuum and makes sure it holds. Unless I am just not thinking and there's a way to do it with a plain vacuum gauge?

Need to still get a timing light too. I should have all the tools in a couple of day. Timing marks off the back of the 360 right? It's been years....

This picture shows the choke linkages:



First, the rod coming out of the choke thermostat in the intake manifold should be straight and pointed almost straight up. Yours has a "U" bent in it towards the back of the van. You should be able to either straighten that out or get a new choke thermostat.

Second, the linkage between the choke vacuum pull off and the choke butterfly valve is almost certainly pinched too tight.

The choke thermostat linkage is supped to hold the choke closed when the engine is cold and slowly pull the rod down and open the choke as the engine warms up. The vacuum operate choke pull off is supposed to pull and hold the choke open ROUGHLY 1/4 inch as son as the engine starts and full manifold vacuum is applied to the choke pull off diaphragm. The two work in conjunction to make sure the carb runs richer when the engine is cold and leaner once the engine warms up.

As it is now, the choke thermostat rod is bent in such a way that it will hold the choke open when the engine is cold. The vacuum operated choke pull off looks to be just about useless with the choke held so far open.

Does you van die when the motor is fully warmed up or only when it is cold? If it dies when it is cold, it is likely because the choke isn't closed enough to richen the mixture properly.

Adjust the choke linkages per the specifications in the manual I linked to a while back and double check the fast idle cam linkage as well.

To adjust the choke vacuum kick link you really need to get yourself that handheld vacuum pump. The vacuum kick requires a sustained vacuum. And some care on top of that; it extends in two stages...

You can also check that your distributor's vacuum advance is working properly with the handheld pump, as well as perform checks on the various hoses and the charcoal canisters.

Reed, do you suppose that what's happened here is that perhaps the BBD should have had a much shorter link on the divorced choke and the Mechanic just cheated by bending it at that crazy angle to get it crammed in?
I see they did at least put in the thick carb spacer, raising the carb as much as possible that way. Short of installing an additional machined spacer, it seems the link's got to be wrong for a BBD...

Good morning, I've got a vacuum pump on the way. I was wondering about the same thing on the choke myself.

I am going to run by my mechanic today and talk about just doing the intake/carb swap now versus continuing to fight the wrong setup. Just want to run it by another set of eyes.

Does it make sense to get the EGR ready intake and then use a block off plate just in case? I figure that way if the emission folks here raise a stink I can put it back on.

And speaking of chokes. How do I go about that piece of the puzzle if I swap the carb? Do I need a new choke setup or keep using what I got? Does an electric choke make sense and if so are those the connectors to it in the the picture I posted earlier? Sorry for all the questions but I really don't know much but basic mechanical stuff.

There are chokes available as options for most of the big name brand carbs like Holley and Edelbrock. The electric ones are probably the most simple to implement and adjust; you just rotate their body to the correct position; linkage is mostly eliminated.

The connectors in your picture... at least one of those would have been for an electrically actuated vent valve to the charcoal canisters. The other one would very likely have been for the electronic throttle control solenoid I'd mentioned, which bumps up the idle speed a bit when the Aircon is turned on, reducing stalling. You do have the ETC timer in your photos, so the system was in place on your previous engine.

BTW, since you're not using it, you should probably unplug and remove that ETC module which is overhead in your engine compartment. It's just going to draw electricity unnecessarily, and if it ever fails, it could blow fuses. When Mopar didn't install an ETC timer, they just left the connector hanging loose, so there's no need for you to be concerned with plugging it up.

Take a peek through some of the big auto websites like Summitracing and JEGS to see what sort of carburetor offerings and options there are for your 360 engine.

Make really sure you get the right size carb in CFM for your engine though! A lot of guys here are really good at sorting that can of worms out. Too big is really bad...

Some of the carbs even have options for connecting up to the Mopar pedal and kickdown linkages. With the 360 engine, I think you're in far better shape for options than with a 318.

Your idea of getting an emissions ready intake is likely a sound idea if they have fairly tight emissions checking in your area. It would be a lot harder and more expensive to try to reduce emissions in other ways if you find they're excessive.

And if you ever move, you'd also be ready for whatever the new location might require.

As long as the EGR system is actually working correctly on an engine which isn't burning excessive oil or which has messed up timing components, it would reduce the odds of you having to sweat it and perhaps go back for retests, since having the reduced emissions would provide you with a buffer. If there's a whole lot of wear in the engine though, lik eif a previous owner couldn't keep his feet out of it, or never changed the oil, even having a functional EGR system may not be adequate.

Didn't even get a chance to address anything on the van yesterday. I did get the new distributor startup and pickup assembly in yesterday. This'll be a new task for me too. Timing light and vacuum pump should be in tomorrow so I can continue on diagnosing things and fixing the choke for now.

Got an email into Summit about the parts for the carb/intake swap but then I found out Jegs give a retired military discount. I guess they will start getting more of my business if it makes things cheaper. Trying to stay on a strict budget on this van since the reality is it won't be worth much no matter how much I put into it.

I'll be back at this tomorrow. I got the timing light in yesterday and expect the vacuum pump today. I did fire it up last night just to see how it was idling. Let it go for about 5 minutes. It idles smooth and then there was one distinct moment with the engine stumbled and then back to smooth idle again. I expect it's at that point that it sometimes dies. Now to just figure out why that stumble happens.

Ok vaccum pump came in so I am going back at the carb and stuff tomorrow. Although it ran fine today. Just hard to start cold still. Let me ask what may be a stupid question though. As I set the carb and choke up and stuff I am going to use the factory manual since that carb is in there. But since this carb was designed for use on the 318 but is now on a 360 are the books specs still ok? Are the specs more for the carb and not so much what it is mounted on?

Also talked to my normal mechanic about the intake carb swap. He's not sure he wants to tackle it as he really doesn't work with carbs. He's of the fuel injection age, LOL. It looks so simple to do but I worry about getting it right too. Adapting the linkage, fuel line, kickdown, etc...

My 2 cents:

Choke concerns:

You will want to use the factory settings for the 318 carburetor, not the 360 carburetor. I have seen people do all sorts of bizarre things to the choke linkage on BBDs in order to get them to "work." At this point, IF you are going to keep the BBD carburetor on there, I recommend starting from scratch and installing a new choke thermostat (the rod between the intake manifold and the choke linkage on the carb STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # CV150 ). That rod should be absolutely straight with no bends.

The vacuum operated choke pull linkage has been bent way out of shape, probably to try and get the choke to work right with the weird bends in the choke thermostat rod. Again, I recommend starting with a new choke pull assembly ( CARTER Part # 202497 ) . You will want to use the setting for the BBD in your factory service manual, if it has the settings in there. If your service manual doesn't have the specs for a BBD I can probably dig them up.

Like Ram4Ever said, the vacuum pump is a VERY useful tool. Use it to check everything he mentioned.

It is probably hard to start when cold because the choke is not set properly.

Replacement carb and intake:

To be 100% legal, you would have to get the 360 intake and carb that was installed on your engine when it was new. Federal law does not allow for ANY modification to ANY of the emissions systems.

If you want to try and get a performance intake and four barrel carb, I recommend Edelbrock Performer 3776 for the intake manifold (it has provisions for EGR ) and edelbrock Performer 1400 for the carb. That is a 600 cf. carb that is calibrated for fuel economy and has provisions to work with EGR.

I can attest to the fact that the Edelbrock performer components work well together on a 360. I used to have a 79 B250 extended van that a previous owner had installed the Edelbrock "power package" on. Carb, cam, and intake. It was a great performer and had decent fuel economy, too. Edelbrock is a big name and you should have no problems finding info on how to adapt the kick down and throttle linkages to the carb. If memory serves, I was able to keep my stock throttle linkage and kick down linkage. The Edelbrock carb comes with an electric choke. You should be able to find the carb and intakes for sale used for reasonable prices. My only caution is to avoid open element air cleaners. A stock 360 air cleaner will fit the Edelbrock carb.

I found some possible sources carbs on Craigslist near you:

CARB 1

CARB 2

Alternatively, if you want to go back to stock 360 parts,

INTAKE

CARB

CHOKE THERMOSTAT

AIR CLEANER

Wow, thanks Reed. I really think I'm just going to go the Edelbrock route with the manifold you mentioned and a new or remanufactured 600 cfm version of their carb. Keep the EGR mounted and available to hook up just in case. And no matter what, run a stock air cleaner.

The one you linked to is for a 2 barrel, yes?

Hopefully my Kickdown rod is the 360 one so the linkage adapters listed for my engine and the carb will work...

I googled it but I could find where the electric choke gets power. Hmmmm, must search more...

Does this look like it would work also? What I don't see is the fitting on the bottom that runs to the a valve device and then via a hard tube into the back of the passenger side head.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DODGE-A...ries&hash=item4ae37a7c37&vxp=mtr

The stock parts that I linked to are all stock 360 two barrel parts. The 360 was not available in 1981, so the closest you will get to a stock setup is a late 70s two barrel configuration. The only edelbrock parts I provided links to were the two possible carb sources.



That air cleaner would physically fit, but it does not have the provisions for the system you describe. It sounds like you are describing the "pulse air injection system" which was an alternative to the "smog pump" or AIR pump. The pulse air injection system was a Canadian emissions device that is not as effective as an AIR pump. If your van no longer has a catalytic converter, you can remove the use injection system. If your van does have a catalytic converter, you absolutely do need to keep the system in place and functioning, or else plumb in an AIR pump.

The nipple on the air cleaner is just a source of air for the injection system. The pulse injection system works off of the pulses created by the exhaust to draw air into the exhaust stream. The valve device you mention is a check valve to keep the exhaust from traveling back up the tube and into the air cleaner. You could probably buy a universal add-on nipple in the right diameter to fit that air cleaner.

It will be harder to find the right air cleaner to work with a pulse air injection system. Like I said, these were used mostly in Canada.

The Edelbrock carbs and any carb with an electric choke needs a source of switched power. If it is still present, you can use the wire that goes to the choke thermostat. If that wire has been lost over the years, you can tap into one of the field wires coming off the alternator. That is what Chrysler did to get power for the choke thermostat lead.

In your case, I think you will be happier with the Edelbrock carb and intake. Tat 318 is really too small for the 360. A properly set up Edelbrock will probably get you as good or better gas mileage as the BBD.

You're right; it doesn't have the aspirator valve fitting, in the normal location for our vans anyway. There is a barbed plastic tube visible on the side of the air cleaner in the photo showing the entire underside. If it's the correct size there's no reason why it couldn't be used.

On the kickdown rod, I think the difference between rods wasn't between the 318 and 360, but rather between the 3 speed and overdrive type transmissions. Another Vanner, 3pinplug, posted some pictures of this very thing recently in his thread on upgrading to the overdrive transmission, "Real time" Swap of A727 to A518 transmission":

https://www.vanning.com/threads/ubbthreads.php/topics/673177

Hope that helps

I shouldn't offer tech advice first thing in the morning. Sheesh. Let me edit my last paragraph:

"That BBD is really too small for the 360. A properly set up Edelbrock carb will probably get you as good or better gas mileage as the BBD."

The Edelbrck carb is physically wider than the BBD, but I believe there is enough play in the throttle linkage to adapt it no problem. Yo will want to re-use the throttle stud off the BBD on the Edelbrock carb. The kick down linkage also fits the Edelbrock, but you have to move the position of the arm that connects to the carb to the outside of the "U" on the bell crank that goes down to the trans.

Thanks again Reed, I am saying that a lot lately. I ordered that one Air cleaner and will sort out the nipple issue once I get it in. Gonna call Jegs in a bit to sort out the intake, carb deal and see the cost. I heard they give a military vet discount so hoping to get a bit off the purchase. Gonna take off the leaky valve covers when I do this and clean and paint them then put on new gaskets. I have on mostly blue valve cover and one black. Might as well make it look a little nicer.

So, yet anothre question. My understanding is that the Edelbrock 3776 intake has larger runners for the 360 but they neck down at the head to the 318 size. On my stock engine is there really going to be any gain if I get a machine shop to port match to at least the gasket. In other words open it up to close to the right size for the heads. Would it really make any difference with the 600 CFM carb and stock exhaust?

I can't speak for the intake runners, and I wouldn't worry about port matching the gaskets. Opening up the exhaust will help.

Yeah exhaust is on my list, just way down on it. I'd like to find he local exhaust guru when the time comes and sort out a header, dual pipe setup of some kind. Despite all the various tanks on the bottom of the van there still seems to be room to run side by side pipes back. Getting rid of the funky Y-pipe. Just have to keept the cat or cats for emissions. Right now though my exhaust priority is figuring out a way to shield a new starter from the heat off the pipes. From my records it seems like this beast eats a starter every couple of years. And right now I'm having issues each time I stop with a hot engine and try and restart.

If you are keeping the catalytic converters then you definitely want to keep and use an AIR/smog pump. Carburetors do not work well with catalytic converters. Carbs do not control the fuel mixture accurately enough for a catalytic converter to live long behind the engine. The carb will put too much fuel into the engine which will end up getting into the cat and causing it to overheat, melt down, and clog the exhaust. Having an AIR pump inject air into the exhaust line or, even better, directly into the cat will help the converter live a little longer, but the converter will still need to be inspected and possibly replaced every few years. Get a three way high efficiency catalytic converter for sure. Modern cats are high flow, unlike the old original equipment cats put on vehicles in the 70s and 80s.

Hot start problems can be alleviated by insulating the starter motor. I had to do that on my 89 Ford van.

Far as I know I don't have an air pump. It's got the canadian type setup...

Bad?

Not necessarily "bad," but not the best situation for a cat. Parts are a bit harder to find for the Canadian "air aspirator" system as well.

Yeah parts are tricky, turns out there's a 2001 being parted out just 5 minutes from me. So I was able to get seats and more importantly, all the door rubbers off it last Sunday. But the newer engine in it is a 318 with a factory CNG conversion so not much there for me. Just thought about about sway bars though so I'm going to swing by and see if it has those. I have none on my van.

ooooohh, I would be tempted to grab that entire engine and CNG setup.

Way beyond my skills or wallet, LOL! The owner is hoping to find someone to take it before it gets scrapped though.

Hey, were only around 800 miles away, roadtrip for you?

Ha, I wish. I used to live in Salt Lake. It took three days of driving to get from Salt Lake to where I am now. Speed governors on moving trucks suck!

I worked in SLC for almost 5 years and was so glad to finally stop making that commute. I'm about an hour north in the Ogden Valley.

I'll be getting the van back tonight from having the upper control arms replaced so it's now time to seriously address the carb issue. One thing I thought of, does altitude come into play for the equation too. I live at a little over 5000 ft and then most of the time the van will be in areas running aroun 4000 ft and above. With mountain trips of up to around 9000 ft or so routinely. Do that change the CFM size I should be looking at or how it is jetted? I really am totally ignorant in the world of carbs.

High altitude will make the carb run rich due to the thinner air, but CFM won't change. Most carbs have a procedure for setting them up for high altitude use.

No real progress today. Control arms, drag link, and front shocks all put on so I needed a front alignment. They had a heck of a time getting the steering wheel centered and I lost some precious hours waiting for that. Then I spent a couple of hours running south to look at and pick up some decent chairs. Then came home, cleaned them and starting doing all the mods to convert some used beige seat belts to my van so I can mount them.

Oh and the air cleaner came in. How can something so simple be so sweet. Came with a new filter and prefilter!

What a great catch! I think that's the very first factory prefilter I've ever seen too.

Please remember to run an air intake hose from the air cleaner snorkle to the mounting flange on the top of the radiator core support to obtain your cold air intake, so the temperature control can make your air charge temperature remain as stable as possible.

I've had good luck with O'Rielly's auto parts being able to track down those flex accordion type hoses.

I actually have the cold air setup already on and being used. That's one reason for grabbing this one, it'll fit right on. The only mod is going to be a fitting for the canadian emissions part Reed identified. An air source off the head that feeds into the bottom of the air cleaner. I just have to drill and bung a fitting for it once I do the intake/carb upgrade.

Some observations on yesterdays 100+ mile drive to get the chairs. On level roads the current setup does run to speed just fine. Not fast but will get to highway speeds just fine. With all the shocks on it's riding better but still victim to the winds we get around here. Air shocks and sways should help that.

But, heading over the one mountain pass I decided to see what it could really do now that I know the speedo is off. Using my GPS i realized the best it would do uphill was 53 mph no matter what I did with the throttle. That was with only about 1/2 tank gas, and both water tanks about 1/3 fuel and no gear. She's definitely will need to breathe better for the trips into the mountains loaded down.

This week I'll finally determine all the right parts for the upgrade and get the order in. I have been debating trying to source a used stock setup but I think for simplicity and dependability a new edelbrock setup will work best for me. I've already spent so much on the beast I may as well stay committed. Hopefully the carb and the air springs and sway bars will be the last major expenses this year and I can just enjoy it as it's meant to be this summer.

Let me ask another maybe silly question. Can the air breather that's piped into the air cleaner be swapped instead to a pop in filter type? That way I could reroute the emissions piece off the head into the existing side fitting on the air cleaner. Will it mess up the operation of the engine in anyway or is it just an emissions thing? I seriously doubt any emissions tester would notice an air breather filter since it's so far back on the valve cover. They just go in from the hood to hook onto a plug wire to ge RMS.

My brother used to go through the mountains between LA and the Anza Borrego desert regularly, and was so impatient over his van not keeping at the speed he wanted going uphill, (he used to say "it wouldn't get out of its own way") that he installed the sort of intake manifold and 4-bbl carb upgrade you're doing. It took care of his perceived problem to his satisfaction. But he couldn't keep his feet out of it so his MPGs went down...

Is there any chance the Edelbrock manifold might already have a tapped port for manifold vacuum? It's a common enough requirement to need a supply of manifold vacuum, especially on an emissions engine, that it would make sense that there would be one. There will need to be a port to supply manifold vacuum to the brake booster at the very least!

The filter device on the valve cover that you're asking about is an oil bath air cleaner for the positive crankcase ventilation system. It's supposed to have some light weight oil poured into it periodically to perform optimally. It can definitely be swapped to an open element type if you want; coming off the side of the air cleaner housing it's simply getting cooler air with less road dust. You'll need to inspect an open element filter with some frequency until you get a feel for how fast it fouls in your area, so you'll know when to clean it.

A search for crankcase breathers should turn up some results for you.

That's good news on the filter and is what I thought. That means I can use the existing fitting in the side of the air cleaner to run that emissions part I was talking about. So glad as in it's current configuration it mounts to the bottom of the air cleaner and is a total pain in the butt to get reseated each time I take off the air cleaner.

The intake I plan on using looks to have all the same ports and mounting as the original intake. The CCEV up front by the thermostat housing, the EGR port, the mounts for the choke assembly, and all the other vacuum and accessory mounts/ports seem to be there.

Then the carb I'm thinking is right has the EGR port, distributor vacuum port, and bowl vent. The only piece I'm not sure of and will ask about when I call is the purge port for the cannisters. I'm assuming it will be there since they have the bowl vent for the cannisters but I didn't notice it in the description.

Still unsure about the whole carb/intake swap or at least my ability to do it. Every job on this van so far has been a pain in the butt and is driving me to drinking, literally. Took me all day yesterday to just mount the new (used) seats and seatbelts do to a comedy of errors/issues. And that seems to be how every job has gone with this van. If it doesn't give me a heart attack or make me an alcoholic before I finish it I'm sure I'll enjoy it. But right now it's trying to drive me crazy.

Even the airbag install looks so simple yet I bet something goes wrong with that too. And of course everytime I need a piece of hardware or a tool I have to make an hour long round trip to town to get something. Anyway, just venting after another very frustrating day with this thing.

I know the Edelbrock manifolds at least have the tapped port for the "vacuum tree" to run full manifold vacuum to all the accessories (which DO NOT include the distributor).

Edelbrock carbs by and large do not have the bowl vent for the charcoal canister. Only the model #1400 crb has the bowl vent already installed when new. However, if you are brake and a bit handy, it appears that all the Edelbrock carb upper castings have the boss for the bowl vent. It appears it would be possible to drill the boss out and infall a nipple to create your own bowl vent, but you would need to verify that some sort of vent valve was not necessary. Alternatively, you could probably use the upper casting off of a 1400 on a carb with a higher CFM rating. Here is a link to the Edelbrock 1400 installation instructions: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/misc/tech-center/install/1000/1400.pdf

Swapping the carb and intake is easy. However, you will need to remove the throttle stud from the BBD on the van now and put it on the new carb. You may have to try different holes in the throttle arm on the carb (or drill your own) before you find the one that will work best on your van. The original kick down linkage should also work, but you have to change the position of the arm that attaches to the carb due to the Edelbrock being a wider carb.

Otherwise, go slow, be careful, and you should be fine.

Ok, the bowl vent is easy because, like you say, it's there. But where do I run the purge from the cannisters that currently s going back into the front of the Carter BBD? That's the part that I'm not sure of.

Don't want to do it like it was setup when I bought it. That line was just free hanging on top of the manifold terminated to nothing on the carb.

Oh, and any suggestions on the intake gaskets? Should I use the edelbrock ones or is there a Fel-pro that is superior. I have had real good luck on all my other engines with premium fel-pro gaskets and that's even what I just bought to fix my leaky valve covers.

I will need to see how the purge port is done on the BBD. I have some spares in the garage and I will check them out today.

I have always had good luck with Fel-pRo gaskets. The only time I didn't use a feel pro is on my 89 E150 equipped with a fuel injected 351W motor. The fuel injected Ford small block engine is known to suck Felpro intake gaskets into the intake ports, so I used a special stiff Victor Reinz gasket that has held up well. However, on all thumpers I have ever worked on I have successfully used Felpro.

I know the purge port can just be left uncapped on the carb, and I don;t see why it couldn't be left unconnected from the charcoal canister. However, that defeats the whole point o the canister and renders it useless. It is far preferable to get it hooked up and working right.

Well,I've been searching a bit on the internet and lots have asked the same thing. Closest thing to a solution I saw was somenones mention of using a two port PCV and plumbing the cannister purge into that along with the normal pcv line...

That might work.

Oh, and the A/C is working.

I assume I will need to get a CEC soleniod for the new carb too because once I adjust it properly won't it need this to idle with A/C on?

Right now with my EGR off, idle is high and A/C is not killing the engine or at least didn't the one time I tested it...

Some kind of solenoid would be useful, yes.

So I think I have it all sorted out and ready to order.

Manifold
Carb
square to spread bore adapter
Manifold gaskets
various linkage adapters
new mounting hardware

Then I've already have now radiator hoses waiting but have not bothered with the heater hose ( I think) coming off the front of the intake. Need to look at that tonight but I think whatever it is I can just buy local by the foot if needed.

Standard RTV black for the gaskets or what's everyone's opinions on that? I've used both black and copper in the past according to the application.

Oh and I've got plenty of vacuum line here to replace any old hard stuff.

Anything else I should have on hand? It's at least and hour round trip to get to the nearest auto parts store so I'm hoping to have everything on hand before I crack the first bolt.

Oh and I've only got a Craftsmen beam splitter type torgue wrench. Good enough or is it time to upgrade. I don't want to crack the new aluminum intake. I really do appreciate all the help you guys have been giving me on this van.

Bleh, I haven't used a torque wrench to torque down an intake manifold in years. The torque is something like 35 foot pounds, which is the same as good and snug for me. Be sure to follow the proper torque pattern, though. A beam style torque wrench is fine if you are going to do it right.

I think you are set. Maybe a gasket scraper to clean off the mating surfaces and some rags to stuff down the ports on the heads. Bring lots of patience, don't rush, and you will be fine. I also like to chase the threads on the manifold bolts and run a tap down the bolt holes to clean up the threads. But that can be overkill.

Well at least we are thinking alike. On the way home tonight I was going to pick up some more lint free rags to cover exposed stuff. And I was planning on getting a set of taps too. Just needed to double check the sizes to make sure I get what I need. I'm just assuming I'm going to find problems but in reality this 360 has less than 40,000 on it since it was remanufacutred.

If the weather breaks I'll be doing the rear air bags, starter and the valve cover gaskets this weekend. Hoping to clean up the valve covers really good and paint them both Mopar blue to match. If the paint gets in. My first order of 2 cans of Mopar Blue from Summit came in as one can of Hemi Orange. Hmmmm, if I used that instead will it automatically give me 50 more horsepower? LOL!!

I wish my garage was tall enought to get this beast into. Then I wouldn't be a slave to the weather.

Post pictures if you can!

I'll try to remember too. Heck the whole reason for getting the van was to give me more freedom while doing photography. Right now it's just getting in the way of my time to do photography, LOL!