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'88 B250 running problems
#768693 December 17th 2020 4:20 pm
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Hi all, thanks for this awesome site. I have got a real thing for classic vans and love to learn and work on my own 1988 Conversion van 5.2l TBI. I tried to put a picture of the van in my signature and resize it, but that might have gone wrong, I guess I will find out when I post this.

When i bought it, it had been unused for some time. I did a service and replaced plugs, coil, distributor cap. oil, trans fluid, filters. It would surge and stall at idle though from the moment I first started it, very annoying, made it difficult to park for a start. I played with lots of things but what finally did it was when I replaced the throttle body gasket and the O2 sensor. One of those did the job. The gasket was very "welded " on but I couldn't really see how that could cause a bad air leak versus, say a holed vacuum pipe. I checked all the vacuum pipes at the same time, everything seemed fine.

2 yeas later, and this may be unrelated, I am having problems going up hills. No power and overheating. Admittedly I was 5 up, with a lot of load and it was 100 degrees but it got real hot, real quick. I eventually investigated the timing and found it was out, it was about 4 degrees, I changed it to 12. Tried the same hill after and it did get hotter on the gauge, but only by a bit. Generally it feels more peppy and happy.

There was another problem, that occurred during all this and still lingers, is a jerking under load (up hills for example), at freeway speeds. It almost feels like it is changing down. I think it is a misfire under load. After I changed the timing to 12 degrees this went away and it changed through the gears very nicely so I don't think it is anything to do with the transmission. But this problem has come back

However, it is now also doing the unhappy idle thing again, including stalling when I am driving down the road, in drive, but with no gas pedal (downhill). That was pretty worrying. So I am back to trying to figure out what this problem is.

Maybe the gasket/O2 sensor has gone again?
Has 2 years of incorrect timing lunched the plugs?
Something to do with the choke (i am in socal though, so it never gets below 50 degress!)

I've got a new coil and new plugs on their way to try and address the misfire problem.

Any suggestions?
TIA


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #768704 December 18th 2020 9:06 am
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Chrysler TBI of that era are notoriously problematic.

Seriously consider swapping over to a carburetor.


Nate Breece
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #768902 December 23rd 2020 4:19 pm
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I often read about how crappy the chrysler TBI system is. I've a 1989 b250, for 20+ years and 100K+ miles now, and just drove it cross country, or I would have responded sooner.

i don;t want to Taunt Murphy, but

The only surging issues I had, was when I had a failing fuel injector, which is about a 2 minute job to replace and a new injector is under 50$. It is pretty easy to see feel and hear the difference in a malfunctioning fuel injector with the air cleaner cover off. can swap the injectors to see if the problem follows the injector or its wiring

I have had issues with the engine computer. The original likely failed because of a wire to transmission overdrive solenoid was shorting to ground. The replacement ECM was damaged about 12 years later, by the weight of the wire bundles of the 14 wire connector hanging on the solder joints of the 14 pins. I removed the potting, reflowed the solder, and no more issues. I also remove the weight of that wire bundle from potentially stressing the circuit board's pins. Turn the Key to On, not start, and gently apply different pressure to the 14 pin connector. if you hear a relay or relays click on and off it is likely that this is now, or will soon be an issue.

Get some Caig DeOxit d5, no other electrical contact cleaner comes remotely close, but they are useful for helping to flush out old crusty dielectric grease, as the Caig is too expensive for this task.

Do ALL the sensor connectors, MAP and TPS. 02 sensor, coolant temp sensor as well as at the ECM. Every connector you can find. open it flush out old dielectric grease with CRC QED and bottle brushes, then Caig Deoxit.

Flush the connectors of old dielectric grease with CRC QED or similar, and some dental style bottle brushes, then use the Caig Deoxit and the same brushes. Some small precision swabs soaked with deOxit afterwards on the pins, will likely turn black and the pins go from grey and dull to gleaming like silver.
https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Cotto...mp;psc=1&refRID=326PHGWF1QMFFS6JMPKB


The sensors get sent only 5v and the engine computer sees a returning voltage on these connectors and determines fuel air ratio and spark timing, so highly resistive connections from corrosion on a 32 year old vehicle can have huge effects on driveability, MPG and power. the lower the voltaeg the more affected they are to electrical resistance. Doing all my sensors alone made it feel like I removed 500+ Lbs from the back of my van. Throttle feel/driveability improved dramatically just cleaning the sensor connectors.

Do NOT be one of those people, who opens an electrical connector, sees dielectric grease, and assumes all is fine within and reconnects it I've had di electric grease peel off pins and sockets like 30 year old scotch tape, after removing all the grease which appeared fine and dandy surrounding it.

The engine computer gets its ground, from the intake manifold where the ignition coil attaches. Make sure this is clean and tight. Follow the original battery to engine ground, remove file/wire brush shiny spray with deoxit d5 and retighten. Follow the smaller wires to from battery negative to firewall, behind battery. Same treatment.

It is a good idea to ground the frame to the Engine as well. Best would be the same bolt as the Battery to engine ground, and best if this is a bolt holding the alternator bracket.

The ONLY way I would consider a carburetor swap is if I could not get a new ECM or the parts to repair mine, AND I was not concerned with either fuel economy or having to pass emissions tests.

if driveability conditions happen only with low levels of fuel in the tank, it is likely the fuel pump is on its way out, but do check the connector and the frame ground for the pump at the cross member at the fuel tank. Same CRC QED then Caig Deoxit treatment here. The lower the voltage reaching teh fuel pump the hotter and harder it hat to run to supply the fuel needed, so a shitty electrical connection here can induce premature fuel pump failure. the wiring gauge and the extreme length of it that chrysler used is also pretty inadequate even for the 4 amp load of the fuel pump. I bypassed around 10 feet of it as it actually runs up and over the upper frame rail over the back doors stock. I think the power for the Fuel pump is a green wire with red stripe, 16 or 18 AWG. It gets ground from the nearby cross member. This is where the additional frame to engine ground can be beneficial.

One last thing, is the cabling at teh battery itself. often this grows green or white corrosion, and the owner removes this corrosion and thinks all is well. I am not sure how it is NOT all OK, but I have witnessed on more than one occassion weird electrical issues stemo from battery cables which once had visible corrosion removed. opening up teh wirin insulation shows the corrosion wicked well up the wire stranding, and then sometimes the 6 or 4 sae gauge wire would refuse to pass any current, or cause weird intermittent issues that are easily solved with new battery cables.

Do be aware that many parts store cables, use steel ring terminals.

On a scale of 1 to 100 and copper being 100, steel is about a 4, depending on teh alloy, and steel rusts.

If you need new battery cables:
https://www.genuinedealz.com/collections/custom-cables

The prices are likely less than parts store crap, and he uses professional tools and top quality components and stuff arrives quickly with free shipping.

Parts store cables are SAE gauge, which is 6 to 12% thinner than AWG, american wire gauge, with correspondingly less ampacity.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #768938 December 24th 2020 11:42 am
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Out of curiosity do you have a ballast resistor on the firewall? Have you checked it?


Nicole
1988 Dodge B250 5.9l 360 Ram CamperVan / 727 Tranny / Rochester Quadrajet Carb
www.nikothenomad.blogspot.com
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769342 January 04th 2021 3:06 pm
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Hi Nicole, thank you for your reply, sorry to not respond sooner, I only just checked back.

I have changed the coil and spark plugs over the holidays; did not make a difference. The coil said it was for a ballasted system so I assume there is a ballast resistor. I will check.

I replaced the fuel filter, fuel pump and all fuel hoses on this van since I bought it. I think I replaced the fuel pressure regulator too. All in the name of either good practice, or throwing parts at this problem.

I take your point on checking all the electrical connections and I will do that first chance I get. One thing with this van is is seems to have sat for a solid 10 years before I bought it so electrical issues would be a strong possibility especially as this seems to be intermittent and less noticeable when the engine is at operating temperature. I have some of that deoxit stuff already.

I am also going to hunt down a possible vacuum leak as the surging suggests unmetered air getting in and the system dumping fuel to correct the fuel trim when the o2 sensor sees the results. This problem with the surging and stalling at idle happened when I first bought it and one of eitherTB base gasket replacement and O2 sensor replacement solved it. I'm going to re torque down that throttle body. I checked every possible vacuum line at that timeand they all seemed fine.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769353 January 05th 2021 1:31 pm
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Hi Kogon.... No worries. I sent you a private message. Good luck with the fix!


Nicole
1988 Dodge B250 5.9l 360 Ram CamperVan / 727 Tranny / Rochester Quadrajet Carb
www.nikothenomad.blogspot.com
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769546 January 10th 2021 10:46 pm
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Due to the amount of time which has gone by, and the age of the components, it might be worth inspecting the vacuum hoses around any evaporative control charcoal canisters. They can create massive vacuum leaks. If there's a master canister, the internal control diaphragm may rupture, leading to a nasty hidden vacuum leak. That can be tested with a handheld vacuum pump.

If you have the three barb fuel filter, make sure your return line isn't obstructed. That could lead to vapor lock type issues.

Have you tried spraying carb cleaner around the throttle body exterior while the engine is running to look for any changes in RPM which could indicate a leak?

Is your air cleaners heat riser tube still intact? Is your choke kick solenoid opening the choke plate firmly so it can't drift or flutter?

Does your engine have a crankcase breather air inlet filter on top of the passenger side valve cover? If those clog up a variety of peculiar symptoms can result. PCV malfunction type issues, including idle issues and varnish buildup being the most common. Air should pass through them with very little resistance. And believe it or not, they're an oil bath air cleaner! They require periodic servicing by pouring a few spoonfuls of light oil in them to wet the filter media, like you'd do on a K&N air filter.

Double check your exhaust Y-pipes and joints for any pinhole leaks. If you have the air injection system or an aspirator valve, the little thin metal pipes which bolt into the rear of the exhaust manifolds can develop disruptive leaks too.

Have you ever verified that the throttle kick down adjustment is correct? It seems to almost always be wrong when someone first tries to get the bugs out of a previously owned van. It is responsible for modulating some of the fluid line pressure inside the transmission. It can cause issues at idle if it's way off, (throws the idle rpms off due to the load of the pump) cause shifts to occur incorrectly, particularly late or early, or even lead to alarming bucking. If you need the adjustment procedure let us know; several of us have feild service manuals containing the procedure.

Last edited by Ram4ever; January 10th 2021 11:07 pm. Reason: more details

-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van


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It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts...

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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769600 January 12th 2021 2:51 pm
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Hi Ram4ever, thank you for taking the time to make some suggestions. I'm not able to work on the van until this weekend but I will go through your points. Some of them are already "yes" and "does not apply" but I will go through them.

Regarding your last suggestion, I'd be grateful to see that procedure. I have a alldatadiy subscription but i can't find that procedure searching under "throttle kick down"?

I have changed the trans fluid and adjusted the bands, twice, so I know they are in order, but I don't think that's what you mean?


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769608 January 12th 2021 8:18 pm
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@Ram4ever

Does this sound like the right thing?

On all models, raise and support vehicle, then loosen adjustable swivel lock screw, Figs. 12 through 14. Ensure swivel slides freely on throttle rod so that return spring action is not restricted. If necessary, disassemble and clean or repair parts to assure free action.
Hold transmission throttle lever firmly forward against its internal stop and torque swivel lock screw to specifications.
Lower vehicle and test linkage operation by moving throttle rod rearward and slowly releasing it making certain that it returns fully.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769624 January 13th 2021 2:50 am
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My 89 TBI has a throttle rod between throttle body and A-500 overdrive transmission.

On the drivers side of the TB there is a mechanism to let the TX know the degree of throttle input. There is some sliding of this linkage at the throttle body. The throttle pushes the linkage back, and the TX allows it to return as it wants, with some spring assist.

If it does not slide easily, the TX will be confused.

I had this linkage fall off. It would shift quickly into third gear, nearly instantly when accelerating.
No stalling.

At the TX there is a half inch bolt.

When adjusted as the factory or haynes manual stated, I though it shifted way too late and too harshly, as I would drive. It felt fine if I was accelerating hard, everywhere and did not give a flyingFVck about fuel economy. But I dont so I dismissed the factory service manual and the Haynes

I drove around with a 1/2 inch wrench and would stop and adjust it 1/16" increments until it shifted where I wanted it to shift from first to second and second to third.

I have about 80k miles on the rebuilt TX with it adjusted to MY desires, as to where it shifts.

With no Running boards lifting the vehicle is not needed to access this adjustment point.

Ram4ever, I deleted my FB account, so No more messenger either.

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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769633 January 13th 2021 1:23 pm
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Hi wrcsixeight

That sounds like the mechanism I posted about above; that's a copy and past from alldatadiy. I will check it out and make sure it is clean and moving freely like it describes. Once done maybe that's worth adjusting to suit as you describe. My van has running boards but I can just slip underneath if I haven't eaten too many pies the day before!


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769634 January 13th 2021 1:39 pm
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Put 2 tires on the curb and 2 tires in the street .... I have done this many times to keep from getting out the jack and stands ....


SUNSHINE VANS-VAN DIEGO
ADRENALIN BY THE GALLON & CHASIN RACIN
ONE FOR THE DIRT & ONE FOR THE STREETS
'93 CHEVY G30 454 4X4 SPORTVAN EXT 146" WB
'92 CHEVY G30 454 BEAUVILLE EXT 146" WB
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #769858 January 19th 2021 2:26 am
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Well, I've been pretty busy because in between losing my job last summer ("Covid budget cuts") and getting a new job (more money, so up yours old job!), I started a pretty big yard remodel that I'm now having to finish whilst holding down a job too. I thank you all for your suggestions which I am working through. I snatched MLK day 1hr slot I have investigated the Charcoal canister, because its easy to get to!

Conclusion is , it seems good. Everything looks in good shape. Those two center ports both held a vacuum. The bottom one you can see in the gauge seems OK, the vacuum dropped very slowly but when I reconfigured the hoses to my gauge dropped even slower so I think one of the pipes was the leak. Both passed the "tongue test" with no sign of unsticking. I can't see a case here for dropped over $100 on a new one

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770245 January 27th 2021 4:37 pm
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Been troubleshooting the van and been through most of the suggestions. Today I took it for SMOG. It passed. The tester noted it would "die" and then recover. It did this real bad when I started it this morning, but on the way home it was fine. Guess warming up helps. it was still doing the jerking under load thing though. The tester suggested swapping out the computer and I might try that if I can get one. I see a 90 B250 in a local pick a part, so I might go down there.

injectors - i watched them with the car running and the air filter off. They were quite noisy but they were throwing fuel consistently onto the butterflys, even when the engine died
computer - as above. All the connectors were cleaned and looked very clean even before
sensor cleaning -I removed and cleaned with the deox stuff, every connector I could find
engine computer ground at coil to intake manifold connection - still to check but the coil was replaced so this should have been tightened up and messed with recently
battery to engine ground - deoxed and tightened up
ground to frame? - yet to do, i will put a jumper cable between batter and frame and see how that goes
fuel pump - was replaced
fuel pressure regulator - was replaced
battery cabling and battery itself looks good. Battery was replaced recently
ballast resistor - cannot be located.Here is where it should be but there is nothing there not space for it. Maybe my model doesn't have one?
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
vacuum hoses - I checked them all again, all looks fine
inlet manifold vacuum - even with the 2 little pipes that go to the flying saucer thing in the air cleaner open, the vacuum held at about 23 units of whatever it is, it seemed pretty consistent. When the engine tried to stall the vacuum would drop, it wasn't immediately clear if that was cause or symptom but nothing happened to suggest cause.
heat riser tube - fine
choke kick solenoid - to do
crankcase breather filter - was replaced
exhaust - looks in great shape; California car
throttle kick down- i checked it all and it is clean and slides just fine. At idle when the engine was dying it didn't move.

I'm leaning to wards this being an electrical issue. The fuel system was virtually all replaced. When the die/surge at idle happened before I replaced the o2 sensor and it went away. Not sure why a two year old o2 sensor who chew itself up, but I ordered a new one. The one in there was 10 dollars, I've gone for a better brand this time @30 something

Open to further suggestions!

As I'm not getting anywhere I have booked this into the local auto shop for a diagnosis on Monday. Maybe I can figure it out by then, in which case i will cancel, but if they find what's wrong and it costs be two hrs of labour I will be cool with that. Even though someone else working on my vehicles where I have failed goes against everything I stand for, I've tried!

Last edited by KogonDodge; January 27th 2021 4:41 pm.

1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770258 January 27th 2021 8:00 pm
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check for any stored fault codes in the engine computer via the 'key dance'

Turn on ignition, not to start, on and off three times, then leave it on.
The check engine light will go out, then start flashing

A flash, a pause then two flashes a bit closer together is a code 12. Expect to see this code.
Code 55 is And of codes, expect to see this after all other codes are displayed.
If yours is falling flat sometimes, I'd expect to see a code 14 for the map sensor.
Pretty sure this illuminates the check engine light. not all codes illuminate the CEL and some which do, will not have it lit up after stopping and restarting the engine.
Code 53 is an internal engine computer fault detected. My cardone remanufactured computer has been displaying this code for 15 years......

A list of codes can be found easily online.

How much they asking for the spare engine computer? If you have an OD transmission and get a computer for a 3 speed, you will not have Overdrive anymore.

There is a part number inside your engine computer, Lift up the potted circuit board and the potted circuit board underneath will have the part number.

See if Rockauto might have one.

I've been wanting to replace the capacitors in my original ECM and see if it returns to function.

The little flying saucer in the aircleaner is a device that tries to keep a constant 100F temperature entering throttle body at light throttle. it modulates vaccuum to the blend door which mixes fresh cool air and air captured from passenger side exhaust manifold. I found mine was inoperable and only allowing manifold heat.

When smog tested they just makes sure the snorkel is attached to aircleaner and there is a collector over the manifold, they do not check to see if this system is operating as intended. It does effect fuel economy, not only during warm up but anytime at light throttle. remove the fresh air snorkel from aircleaner with engine at full temperature, and shine a light in the air cleaner snout. At idle if you see the door is closed, your little flying saucer's pintle is clogged and stuck.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770261 January 27th 2021 8:45 pm
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The computer at the junkyard seems to be about $35, having said that it is about 1hr away. .I've done that code thing before. I will try it again see what the score is now


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770265 January 27th 2021 9:42 pm
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12
13
14
31

Map sensor and purge valve.

These are all things I have been unplugging and messing with. I'll clear the codes and see if they come back


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770282 January 28th 2021 1:07 am
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Yep, they went away, just a 12 now (battery has been recently disconnected, which it has, because i disconnected it to clear the codes!)

I swear I have made this worse messing around with it. Something I have been doing must have nudged something.

I also cleaned those earths by the coil. One was under the mounting bracket, one into the head. No improvement.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770307 January 28th 2021 12:34 pm
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@wrcsixeight Rockauto do sell them. Price isn't too bad either. I think I might take that option, approx $200 for something I can check is teh right thing first versus half a day of my time and possibly the wrong thing once I get there.

If it comes to it, that is probably the way I will go; thanks buddy for that suggestion.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770311 January 28th 2021 2:27 pm
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The map.sensor codes.will likely come back the next time it acts up as manifold vaccuum goes haywire.

Id highly recommend opening your computer and matching.the part numbers.
I sent several back and forth by trusting their numbrrs descriptions.

Id.also recommend eating the core.charge and keeping your original.

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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770343 January 29th 2021 2:53 am
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New O2 sensor has made no difference. this has led me to reconsider the last time I "fixed" this. Messing with the throttle body and the O2 sensor seemed to make it go away (more or less). So if the O2 sensor wasn't the solution, then it must have been the TBI.

This has pointed my observations towards the injectors and I've taken a closer look. What I noticed is that they are behaving differently, so a likely suspect. Problem is I don't know which one is right. Part of me thinks it doesn't matter, as one of them is probably playing up.

Driver side - a constant spray, making the butterfly noticeably wet, all the time
Passenger side - nothing, dryness, then a burst, then the engine revs. It seems like the constant spray would be better?

My manual says "Sprays fuel into intake manifold, above intake ports, in an even, conical pattern.", so........

I've got 2 new injectors on their way from Rockauto. I went for a new item from standard motor products which was the most expensive, party because it is coming fastest and partly because i don't want to cheap out and get messed around with a faulty part (hey, most expensive doesn't always mean best , but usualy it does)

I have a date with this van on Thursday so I need to ge it working or my trip is off!


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770359 January 29th 2021 12:05 pm
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Injectors should always be spraying uniformly (cone pattern, no drips) and can be checked for function using a noid light. Could have wiring issues in that circuit, worth triple checking that. Also, If you have a strobe or flashing light from a headlamp or something, it makes seeing the spray pattern a little easier, if needed.

I have had some similar issues on a few different vehicles, nothing exact but some similarities..

Fuel filter clogged - my issues were, stalls under load, stalls at idle

If the van sat for 10 years and you only swapped out the fuel filter once or twice since youve been driving the last couple years, it woudnt hurt to swap a new one in now while youre servicing everything and especially while doing injectors. They can clog again almost immediately if youre tank is nasty and fuel delivery problems start all over again. You can have proper pressure but improper volume, its rare, but its a thing. I try to do my filter every oil change or two because theyre cheap and i usually have some minor rust and gunk in certain vehicles.

I have had issues with power loss on hills - van not kicking down into 2nd until almost losing all speed entirely

Adjusted kick down, made a minor difference. I rebuilt that transmission shortly after because I snapped the ear on my reverse band backing out of a driveway reversing up hill. With the thorough rebuild, tight tolerances and careful install my issue went away and now i can cruise most hills in 3rd. Cant say exactly what the issue was but with things replaced and adjusted to spec it solved that issue.

Ground/Battery issues - can cause all kinds of problems but it sounds like you have gone over that stuff well.

To me it sounds like it could possibly be a vacuum system or throttle body issue but im leaning more towards a fuel delivery problem. Make sure your pump is supplying adequate pressure, getting proper voltage and ground, filter is fresh, injectors and circuit are functioning and return line is free flowing. I thought i saw someone mentioning the sock on the pick up in the gas tank? Definitely worth a look if all else fails. I have also had some luck "back alley" cleaning my injectors (carb clean, attachment made of various hoses, 9 volt battery) and getting another year out of them and smoothing out some quirks. You have new ones coming so scratch that.

I apologize if this is redundant or this stuff has been said before/checked, it was a lot to take in reading through quickly. However, I do suspect the new injectors will make some difference here. Fingers crossed buddy!

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770367 January 29th 2021 1:01 pm
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I take your point about the fuel system. I have been through it and the delivery seems OK, i had a fuel pressure gauge on there and it all aligned with the figures it should be, but you remind me that maybe a new fuel filter is a good idea- on order.

I replaced that sock. The whole tank was amazingly clean, there was literally nothing to clean out of it, other than a few specs here and there. As I had gone to all the trouble of dropping the tank, I replaced both the pump and filter. I think this picture is the old one

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by KogonDodge; January 29th 2021 1:08 pm.

1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770377 January 29th 2021 3:01 pm
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Noticing any difference in spray pattern or rhythm of the 2 injectors screams:
BINGO

I have two different brand injectors, of different designphysical appearance, and spray pattern and rhythm is identical

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770474 January 30th 2021 8:13 pm
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Ok, the injectors I ordered are on the way.

In the meantime, even though I probably don't need a computer, I did fancy a browse around the local pick a part which had a 90 B250 and a 92 B350 in stock. I got a computer and a fuse box, and also grabbed all 4 fuel injectors from those 2 vans - pictured. The 92 had odd injectors, the other 3 all look the same.

My existing ones are like the blue topped one, smaller and stamped "mini injector" but neither of the two types seem to work in my van. From the moment the key goes to position 2 they just spray fuel big time, gushing.

So does anyone know if these injectors are very specific types and not very interchangeable?

I put my old one back, and yet again, because I had messed with it, the engine ran fine. But this time, it ran fine for about a minute and then went back to its old ways.

So, fine, I'll wait for my new ones to arrive on Monday. Except now I'm worried they won't be the right thing and will gush fuel like the two used ones I tried.
What I ordered is a Standard Motor Products TJ22. According to rock auto that is the right thing for a 1990 (the one at pickapart) as well as a 1988 (mine) - if fitted with 5.2l (which mine is)

it is possible that the engine on the '90 B250 was a 5.9l. It did look the same as mine, but I wasn't looking that hard. Do they look more or less the same?

If it was, then the injector is different, according to Rockauto a 1990 5.9l takes a Standard Motor Products TJ37

The 1992 B350 (the other van I got injectors from at pickapart) takes a TJ37 in the 5.9L. The 5.2l takes a different style (one in each cylinder/fuel rail) so it must have been a 5.9L


So, my questions, to summarize, are!
-do the 5.9 and the 5.2 look more or less the same to the untrained eye (me)
-will the different fuel injectors between the 5.2 and 5.9 be incompatible and explain the lack of success I had with the used iones I got and reassure me the ones I ordered are probably right?


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770493 January 30th 2021 9:33 pm
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I think I've answered my own question.
According to a website I found, the little blue one and my original "bosch mini injector" are compatible. Still not sure about the other 3.

The "gushing" is if it is not connected up properly. I found gushing on several occasions, even with my original, when changing these in and out. I guess the voltage closes it, and no voltage =open.

After a bit of twsting injectors around, I now have the blue one in the car and for the minute I ran it, it was fine. I'm going for a spin after dinner. I expect it to run like a champ!


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770522 January 31st 2021 1:06 am
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Test run - success with the used injector. No hesitation. No stalling. No jerlking on freeway. Changes gear smoothly and feels "proper" yay


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770559 January 31st 2021 9:34 pm
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Stoked it up and running properly!

I don't think one can easily tell a 318 from a 360 visually. The heads will fit each other, but 360 heads on a 318 lower compression.

I heard of one intelligent guy, who modified his 1989 d150 5.2 TBI with the smaller injectors from a 3.8 v6, and had a custom 21PSI fuel pressure regulator made for him, and claimed far superior driveability. He also claimed a slightly hotter spark plug with deeper reach was part of that equation. I'm trying the plugs, but no verdict yet. It did seem to idle smoother when cold, but I've not actually test driven it to full temp.

I have to admit to a bit of FOMO with your recent junkyard acquisitions. I'd really love to have a fully functioning backup engine computer, and new 14 and 60 pin pigtail connectors, as everything else seems like it is easily available and should be so for a while to come.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770563 February 01st 2021 2:19 am
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I'm not ashamed to admit the junkyard trip was extremely fun. I also had the freedom to pull things apart and explore the model a bit without worrying about breaking stuff.

One thing I learnt doing that- Despite what the manual says, the ballast resistor is behind the glove box - take out the insert and it is top right.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770564 February 01st 2021 3:59 am
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That's the resistor for the Hvac blower motor's 4 speeds.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1988,b250,5.2l+318cid+v8,1073449,heat+&+air+conditioning,blower+motor+control+module+/+resistor,6557


[Linked Image from rockauto.com]


There is no ignition ballast resistor on computer controlled vehicles, at least not these Dodges.

I visited most junkyards in San Diego in 2008 searching for a 9.25 axle with a 3.55 but since then mostly went to ecology autoparts in Oceanside, last time was in late 2014. I heard they one was now closed, but the guy who said that had dementia.
I too find them fun.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770576 February 01st 2021 12:29 pm
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Thank you for explaining about the resistor.

It is still there it seems, just rebranded

https://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/locations/LKQ_Pick_Your_Part_-_Oceanside-286/


"Formerly Ecology Auto Parts, LKQ Pick Your Part – Oceanside is one of the newest members to the Pick Your Part family in Southern California. "

Just reread some of thread and would like to acknowledge that you called it WXRSIXEIGHT, very first thing you said "The only surging issues I had, was when I had a failing fuel injector,"

What can I say!

Last edited by KogonDodge; February 01st 2021 4:49 pm.

1988 B250 Conversion Van
https://i.imgur.com/uQPPuqo.jpg
Re: '88 B250 running problems
wrcsixeight #770587 February 01st 2021 9:02 pm
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devil
cheers

I need to visit that junkyard. I need a new Captain's chair.

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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770594 February 02nd 2021 10:56 am
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Glad you solved it and its now running great

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Re: '88 B250 running problems
wrcsixeight #770648 February 03rd 2021 1:20 am
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Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
I'd really love to have a fully functioning backup engine computer, and new 14 and 60 pin pigtail connectors, as everything else seems like it is easily available and should be so for a while to come.

I don't think the computer I got is right for my Van. If you are interested let me know ( I am in San Diego too). It is marked "559", from a '90 B250. Rockauto show this info for a part which shows what are probably the part numbers (this based on one of them ending in 559)

Originally Posted by Rockauto
BSE EM10567 {#4379991, 4557559, ECC3134} Remanufactured; Plug & Play - No Programming Required Info
with California Emissions; OE No. 4379991


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #770649 February 03rd 2021 2:04 am
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I cant recall whether mine says 4379987 or.4379989.

But mine is certainly federal originally. A florida van, not California

Not sure the difference.

If it starts and runs my van id be interrsted in owning it.

Im currently out east in florida with it.
Not quite sure when i return back west.to north county

Re: '88 B250 running problems
wrcsixeight #770668 February 03rd 2021 4:48 pm
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I'm in no hurry, ping me when you are around. I live in Solana Beach.


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771067 February 10th 2021 1:02 pm
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Back from my trip to the desert, over the mountains taking on some pretty steep hills. The van ran good. It is still pretty hopeless up long steep hills, necessitating dropping the shifter to "2" or even "1" on the really steep stuff. I don't know if that is how they come or not, as I have never driven another one, but I would have expected a 5.2l V8 to have a reasonable amount of get up and go and not feel like I needed to get out and push!
This was all with one original injector and the junk yard one. My new ones from rock auto will be installed this week when I get a second, they arrived right just before I was about to leave - I didn't want to rock the boat, mess it up and be late, so I just headed off as I was.

Finally I can start to think about the other things I want to do. I took it for alignment a few weeks back and they sent me away suggesting an alignment would be a waste of time without the following being completed first, so I have a bit of work on the front end coming up.
-upper ball joints
-lower ball joints
-inner tie rods
-outer tie rods
-idler arms x2
-center link assembly ( I dont even know what this is!)
-shocks x 4


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771079 February 10th 2021 3:46 pm
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There should be a tag on one of your rear axle diff cover bolts. Mines says 3.5 meaning 3.55:1 ratio. I think 3.73 and 3.23 are the other common ratios.

The Upper ball joints require a special ball joint socket, and shittons of torque to unthread. The lower ball joints need to be pressed out, and back in. I have the socket, somewhere. Few shops have it, No AP stores in the greater San Diego area do, at least they did not in 2009.

The center link itself has no moving parts to wear out. The tie rod ends and the drag link do. I've thoroughly rebuilt my front suspension, in 2009 or so.

The LA-318 without a roller cam is only rated at 175HP, and 185HP with it. 215 to 225 Lb/ft of torque, IIRC.
It might be a big V8, but it is no powerful monster. I think roller cams started in 318's in 1987 but don't quote me.

If yours is an overdrive transmission, one should basically keep it out of overdrive climbing mountain ranges, and it will also shift into overdrive at 28mph under light throttle (lock up @47mph), and then stay in OD even if one gives it just a bit more. The OD unit is the weak link and needs to be babied. I make judicious of the OD OFF button, only allowing it to engage once at speed, and not climbing a hill, and even when there is enough power to climb a mountain on I-8 in overdrive, I press the OD OFF button and just do 55mph in third instead.

I rarely go above 60mph in 3rd as it is something like 3k rpm, whereas in overdrive and lockup it is about 2950rpm @65mph and tons quieter.

The A-500 transmission is not a HeavyDuty TX. The average mileage at failure is 130K miles. Only ATF+4 is acceptable, and one should add an additional transmission cooler to it.



I have that, and an additional external spin on filter, peppered with Neodymium Magnets as rebuilding the A-500 costs about 2,650$ and I don't want to have to ever do that again.

The Kick down linkage from throttle body to TX, if this is way out of whack not only will it not downshift when it should, but it can destroy the TX.


In a recent thread I started, about the aircleaner temp sensor....If this sensor fails, as mine did, it allows full vacuum, always, to the vaccum actuator, which lifts the blend door and allows hot manifold air into the aircleaner. This will make it more sluggish as not only that airpath narrower diameter and more restrictive, but hotter air is less dense and will make less power. Mine still easily passed smog tests with this operating improperly, as they just make sure it is there, not that it is also operating properly.

If the blend door never lifts, it is likely the diaphragm in the vacuum actuator motor has failed.

Since fixing mine I can tell it has more get up and go when asked for those limited ponies available.
Pull off the cold air snorkel and at full engine temp, look inside the snout, at hot idle and see if that blend door is still slammed to the roof. If it is, it is only allowing in hot manifold air. One can disable this system by just leaving the vacuum hose off and plugging it, but then it runs crustier when cold, and it will also not get great mileage as the engine computer is expecting that sensor to keep an average 100f intake charge into intake manifold under light throttle.

Before installing the new Injectors, Run some Gumout Regane through abut 12 gallons of fuel. A 5$ bottle of the high mileage version is about 5$ at wally world, and they say is good for upto 17 gallons. It is said that heat cycling, short trip driving, allows the PEA in this fuel system and combustion chamber cleaner to be most effective. I run this just before an oil change, usually, but once added it to ~ 1/2 tank when driving cross country and 70 miles later the throttle response was much better, to my surprise.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771229 February 11th 2021 11:20 pm
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Thanks as ever for your input, it's pure gold to a newbie to these vehicles like me.

Do you know the part number of the original flying saucer thing you seem to prefer?

Never mind, answered my own question! For my car it is 4287148 which is not much of a hit online

Last edited by KogonDodge; February 11th 2021 11:36 pm.

1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771254 February 12th 2021 2:16 am
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Carter TC 13 is in my aircleaner right now.
Seems to maintain an average 102.5f under light throttle into throttle body.

I've not yet returned my original sensor to test its function, since I opened it up cleaned it out an rtv'd it back together.

https://www.vanning.com/threads/ubbthreads.php/topics/769988/air-cleaner-temp-sensor.html#Post769988

When the throttle is pushed harder there is little vacuum available to hold the blend door open in the lifted position, and it should drop, and allow ambient temperature air into the throttle body.

In theory this air cleaner temp sensor, if plugged up as mine was, should not make any slight differences in max power, as with no vacuum and no accumulator, the blend door should drop.

I theorize I felt more power as the aircleaner itself and filter element were not 150f+ degrees, when I slammed foot to the floor asking for max power.

Last edited by wrcsixeight; February 12th 2021 2:37 pm.
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771269 February 12th 2021 2:28 pm
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TC13 or TS13? Only hits for TC13 I find are your posts. TS seems to give some results.


TS13 on eBay


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Re: '88 B250 running problems
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
wrcsixeight #771422 February 15th 2021 5:37 pm
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Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
The Upper ball joints require a special ball joint socket, and shittons of torque to unthread. The lower ball joints need to be pressed out, and back in. I have the socket, somewhere. Few shops have it, No AP stores in the greater San Diego area do, at least they did not in 2009.

I looked into this. The whole upper assembly can be bought with new bushings and ball joint. Or, if you own a press (which I do) and the aforementioned socket you can buy the individual components and refurb the existing one. The socket might have been hard to come by in 2009 but these days Amazon can sort you one out for $20 next day delivered! I bought one and also a 3/4 to 1/2 inch adapter so I can get my big breaker bar on it. I've got a pretty heavy duty impact wrench that I've been aching to use too. Hopefully , a a Californian car, I won't have any bad corrosion to contend with


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771444 February 15th 2021 11:31 pm
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Back in 2011 when I rebuilt my front suspension, I saw that they had full control arms available with new bushings and ball joints preinstalled.

I read that even the stamped steel McQuay Norris, not the cheapo dorman or mevotech, was 1/2 the thickness of OEM, and that people were not able to achieve anything close to a proper alignment afterwards.

The ball joints quality was highly suspect as was the rubber in the control arm pivots.

I was under the impression that the premade control arms were the route to take if one needed to just get it driveable, in order to sell.

Wanting to keep my van forever, I tried to get all the best parts and do it all myself instead.

I think I had to pay some 25$ for the OTC ball joint socket in 2011 and 10$ to ship it as Amazon did not carry it then.

Mine Van spent most of its life in Florida before I bought it. Roof gutter rust is an issue, not underbody rust, not to any great degree, even though I used to camp on the bluff in Baja for months at a time.

I still hit the upper ball joint and socket interface, with a dental pick and PB blaster every day for a week before busting out the breaker bar. I am no small man and put about 85% of my strength/weight on the end of a 3 foot breaker before it moved.

Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #771448 February 16th 2021 1:06 am
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Fun times ahead then!


1988 B250 Conversion Van
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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #772214 March 03rd 2021 10:39 pm
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So. last Froday, 5 days ago, I left SW Florida in my Van, arriving in San Diego last night.
While I had some tailwinds west of San Antonio i was getting excellent Fuel economy, all things considered, even before then.

Today I run out to get some supplies. leaving one store, I started the engine, put it in reverse to back out of my parking spot, got about 3 feet and it stalled.

I could not hear fuel pump, but jumpered the ASD relay and there it was buzzing away.
I pulled the engine cover and confirmed no Spark. I ohmed out the primary and secondary coil and it was within spec.

Pull out FSm and Haynes manual and the Hall effect sensor/ Distributor pick up, well one receptacle on teh connector which should have been within 1 volt of battery voltage, was 3+ volts below that.

I then called AAA. First time in 16 years of membership I used the tow service.
I am assuming the engine computer is not firing the Coil.

I was within 7 miles of home, so the tow on a Flatbed was free and within an hour and a half of calling AAA, my Van was home.

I'll take my time and diagnose that coil circuit, but I am leaning that My ECM has failed. Glad it did not do so on the 2600 mile journey completedf in the 4 prior days.

KogonDodge I'll be sending you a PM, I want that ECM you pulled from the yard, even if it does not match part numbers exactly and we are not sure it is viable.

Edit.... Looking at the 1990 rockauto parts list and pics of the ECM with , there is no 14 Pin connector on a 1990 ECM and thus incompatible with mine which has a 14 pin and a 60 pin connector

I need a 4399987:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=27684&cc=1073506&jsn=536&jsn=536

And it is listed as OUT OF STOCK.

Might be ordering some Capacitors and seeing if I can return my original to function.

Last edited by wrcsixeight; March 03rd 2021 10:53 pm.
Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #772218 March 03rd 2021 11:55 pm
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Whereabouts are you wrcsixeight? I've got that computer in the garage and I can run it over if you are not too far and have no mode of transportation.


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Re: '88 B250 running problems
KogonDodge #772220 March 04th 2021 12:45 am
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I'm not far off the 5 in Leucadia, but My 1989 b250 '9887' computer has different connectors than a 1990 b250 with a 4557559 number. I thought they were the same in terms of connectors, but was wrong.

I saw the closest Oreillys actually claims to have one in stock for 190$ with 90$ core. Its a Cardone, but so is my current one and it lasted 15 years.

I'm also not yet 100% sure the ECm has failed. It was pouring rain when the flatbed rolled my Van off and I cracked a beer instead.

Thanks for the offer though!

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