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Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761689 May 31st 2020 9:28 pm
Joined: May 2020
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Photos:

Daughter and friends installing wood flooring
[Linked Image]

Panels all removed for repainting
[Linked Image]

Paint refinished by daughter - her first foray into such activities. Experimenting with repainting wheels (tyres will all be replaced so no concern about overspray)
[Linked Image]

Extra hoses for rear heater (presumably disconnected due to heater core leaking?) will all be removed.
[Linked Image]

Work in progress - will probably not use this cabinet
[Linked Image]

Cleaning up roof where PO had caulked all around A/C rather than replacing gasket (hint - it didn't stop the leak)
[Linked Image]

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761690 May 31st 2020 9:51 pm
Joined: May 2020
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Rainy day on Friday - so the spare wheel cover got some love:
[Linked Image]

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761691 May 31st 2020 10:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2002
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Supreme Master
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That spare tire cover is awesome. Is it painted or wrapped ?


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Arianrhod:2003 Chevy Astro
Black Magic: 1985 Dodge B-250
Serenity:1985 Chevy G-20
The Outcast:1983 Ford club wagon
Luna 1974 VW bay window transporter
Freedom:1990 Ford E-150(parts van)
Outcast Vanners van club
Support your local 2%
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761732 June 01st 2020 9:48 am
Joined: Jan 2014
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Looks like you guys are having a blast. Thanks for sharing.


[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761733 June 01st 2020 10:37 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,256
Likes: 164
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Great progress. This will be a fun build to watch

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
lukester #761810 June 03rd 2020 1:52 am
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Spare tyre cover is hand painted. Daughter is not a natural artist so it took her all day - but she knew what she wanted and it turned out exactly as she planned.

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761811 June 03rd 2020 2:11 am
Joined: May 2020
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Got some electrical bits and pieces done:

I got the new radio wired up and made a wooden spacer to get it far enough out that the fold-up screen works properly. Rather surprisingly, all the speakers work well. The big screen doubles as a back-up camera. Will be placing camera and an extra LED reversing "floodlight" high up on the back of the roof.

Disconnected the rear heater fan as the heater will be under the bed so useless and the hoses are already disconnected and will be removed along with the heater core itself. Will also remove the electronic trailer brake device.

Purchased a 110V charger and DC-DC charger for the house battery. Have yet to decide the optimal location and run suitable wiring.

The NOS front turn signal came in. No mistaking it's 30+ years old but it looks great. Making an inventory of all the bulbs I want to swap out with LED.

AC was removed from the roof and we are replacing the gasket to stop a leak. Scraped a ton of old caulk off the roof. Daughter scrubbed the whole roof today and has painted it with a high quality silicone material. Looks a lot better than the scabby paint with missing patches of clearcoat.
[Linked Image]

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761817 June 03rd 2020 7:37 am
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Regarding the alternator and house battery.

The dc to dc charger is a good product, but one needs to know why it is necessary.

The short version is, a depleted battery sucks up as much amperage, from a charging source, as it wants, up to the amperage limits of that charging source, at the voltage( electrical pressure) reaching the battery terminals.

So its all about voltage, and that is controlled by the voltage regulator which is sending field current to the alternators rotor in order to tell it to make more or less amperage to reach a target voltage.

So the voltage regulator is pretty dumb, in that it is only ever intended to keep a nearly fully charged battery, nearly fully charged, and more importantly, to never overcharge.

As such the voltage regulator might initially allow 14.4v after engine starting, but as it and the altnerator heats up lower down to 13.8 or 13.6v. this is fine for a starting battery at high states of charge, but a depleted house battery is basically starving when allowed only 13.6v.

Enter the DC to DC charger. it takes whatever voltaeg allowed by the vehicles voltage regulator, and steps it up to 14.4ish, allows that for a period of time then will lower it and then again for its third 'float stage'.

This can indeed charge the battery better and perhaps faster, depending on the voltaeg the voltaeg regulator actually allows.

Because 20 amps is not all that much into a depleted battery. A well depleted yet healthy group 27 marine battery can easily accept 60 amps, for about 15 to 20 minutes before its voltage hits 14.7v at which point amperage required to maintain that much voltage begins to taper. When it tapers to ~0.5 to 1 amp, at 14.7v the battery will be close to full.

This can indeed be hard on the alternator, and the worst thing one can do to it is park and idle. I have alternator temperature data and idling to park with a heavily loaded alternator will heat it up to and past 220f in about 12 to 15 minutes. At 65mph I can't get my 120 amp alternator's casing over 140f even near maxed out at 106 amps @1950 rpm. Low rpm low speed driving also heats it up greatly.

I have both a 50/120 amp chrysler bosch alternator and a new Nippondenso 50/120 alternator. The Chrysler Bosch has an external fan, it sucks air in the backside and exhausts it at the pulley. The Nippondenso has two internal fans, they pull air in from the ends with bearings and exhaust it in the middle. I was told the ND would perform better and stay cooler. I was told wrong, but the difference is not all that much, except at hot idle, the Chrysler bosch design can do a solid 50 amps total, the ND about 38.

I can't say for sure, but just because your model year lists only a few different alternators, it does not necessarily mean those are the only alternators which will more or less bolt in place just the potential options rockauto has for that model year. Either of my alternators might drop into yours and bolt up, but the wiring might require some massaging.

AND if one is stepping to a higher rated alternator and does not upgrade the main wire between it and the battery, there will be issues, likely a blown fusible link. Also upgrade battery to engine ground

The DC to DC charger is good, but if it limits you to 20 amps, well that can greatly slow recharging of a depleted house battery, and while some will say slow charging is always best, It is not. Not when the battery begins another discharge cycle from a lower state of charge compared to had it been recharged faster at a higher rate int eh time available to charge it. Also while the 'trickle charge it overnight' crowd is everpresent and loud, an older battery partially sulfated stands a much better chance of reverting that sulfation into usable battery capacity when deep;ly discharged and recharged at a higher amperage rate. The heat generated via high amperage , along with the time it takes to bring the depleted battery to 14.7v will better be able to restore lost capacity by dissolving the plate occluding sulfation.

I basically live on battery power. I have all the tools and tons of experience in this area. I've bypassed my voltage regulator, internal to my 1989 b250's engine computer, and use an adjustable external voltage regulator. I modified this VR so the adjustment dial is on my dashboard, next to my digital voltmeter and digital ammeter.I can spin the dial for different voltages and watch the amperager respond accordingly and take way too much pleasure in doing this, after 15 years of being at the mercy of the engine computers bipolar, bat crap crazy voltage regulator

Basically anytime I drive, except at low rpms, i can charge the battery as fast as possible, if I choose to, which I usually do.

Low and slow trickle charging is fine, when one has all the time in the world to recharge a still healthy battery, as long as the trickle charger is capable of attaining voltages in the mid 14's( many are not).

While one does not want to high amperage recharge just any lead acid battery as fast as possible every time, Here and there is not going to be bad for it, except in very high ambient temperatures, and if you are driving 1 hour from A to B and need as much battery power that night and starting out at point A with a dead battery, 50+ amps is not only going to give you more energy to work with that night but also help prevent overdischarging the battery that night.

All lead acid batteries want to be fully charged and kept cool, in an ideal situation. The deeper the discharge, the more important the recharging becomes.

Getting an 80% charged healthy battery back to 100% charged takes no less than 3.5 hours. This is fact. There is no way around it. The more charged the battery is the slower it recharges.
The less healthy the battery, the longer it takes.
This 3.5 hours also assumes voltages in the mid 14's are held that entire time. what takes 3.5 hours at 14.7v takes 9.5 to 12 hours at 13.7v, if at all, as an unhealthy battery will not be able to be fully charged at less than 14.7v and perhaps not even then.

So the DC to DC charger shines in this department as it can hold 14.5v when the vehicle's voltage regulator says 13.6 is fine and dandy.
but say you have a 120 amp alternator, and it is told to maintain 14.7v, on your 85. @65 mph only 5 to 8 amps are required to run ignition so at 2000+ engine rpm the alternator could deliver 112 to 115 amps to the battery. You could get to 80% charged in a short period of time, but then 80% to 100% is still 3.5 hours, minimum. But the 20 amps DC to DC charger would require 2 hours or more to get to 80%, then 3.5 hours more to reach 100%.

So you can see why having a plug in charger is wise, once you return home and can plug in as unless you drive for many many hours there is no way the well depleted battery is charged by the time you get home..

Now regarding the House battery necessity, well there's more than one way to do everything.

Its great powering all loads from a dedicated house battery and always having a fully charged starting battery. Warm and fuzzies and peace of mind.

My electrical system has evolved greatly along with my understanding and experience of living primarily from 12v dc.
Right now, I use one group 31 battery for both house loads and engine starting. It is a high $$ AGM battery, a Northstar, which is sold as X2power by batteries+. It has 103 amp hours of capacity and 1150 CCA. It easily starts my engine when depleted 75 of those 103 amps hours. It absolutely loves high charge currents from a well depleted state in deep cycle duty. I carry a 22 amp hour cheapo chinese AGM(UB12220), in case I need to jumpstart myself, but I've only ever used it to jumpstart others.

I thiink a lot of people who do not want to go to the trouble of setting up a dedicated house battery and charging system, can get away with replacing their engine starting battery with teh largest marine flooded battery which will fit in their engine compartment, and carry a healthy fully charged jumper battery should one deplete that battery too much. The HIgh $$ AGMS when deeply depleted or very cold will outperform a flooded marine battery, the less$$ AGMS are not much better if any than a flooded marine battery in these regards.

I also have an 18Ah AGM battery, a bit older. This battery by itself, has started my 2 week cold 318 engine, in warm ambient temperatures.

I can add 2 more house batteries, easily. I've got everything already wired up. I use tons of electricity nightly. I found out 5 years ago I could easily get away with just one battery. I got over 1200 deep cycles from my previous Northstar group 27 AGM battery over 6 years , and never needed a Jumpstart. but I also have an amp hour counter so I know how much of the battery capacity I am using and how much I am returning.

If you find the whole setting up a house battery thing to be too complex and expensive, just replace the engine starting battery, when it fails, with the biggest marine battery you can fit in the engine compartment and carry a healthy fully charged jumper pack/ battery.

My89 B250 a group 27 fits the stock location easily. I have fit a group 31 there, but it was a shoehorn fit and if the handle did not fold up and out of the way it would not have. A wal mart group 29 marine is basically the same as a group 31 and is a pretty good 12v flooded marine battery for the price and warranty

The UB12180 battery is a 35$ Asian made AGM battery, this size battery comes inside many of the lead acid jumper packs. The newer lithium jumper packs seem to beboth loved and hated by their owners, I've no experience with them so not going to share my opinion. The UB12220 is the same exact size as the ub12180, but 3.5 lbs heavier and 22 amp hours capacity instead of 18.

If you are interested, there are adjustable voltage plug and play voltage regulators available for your Dodge. They have a little potentiometer on the backside one turns with a jewelers screwdriver to change the target voltage. Very important they are well grounded to firewall or directly to battery (-) directly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-External-Voltage-Regulator-Kit-Mopar-Dodge-Plymouth-1970-87-LOT-of-2/264540191122?hash=item3d97d2f992:g:-hQAAOSw6NVd1eNY


I use a different model ( transpo540hd) and I removed the little adjustment potentiometer, attached wires to its legs and ran it to a potentiometer on my dashboard and can choose any target voltage between 12 and 15.5v at the flick of a wrist.

Anyway, keep the simpler option in mind. I went full on psycho with battery capacity, at one point, only to found I used a fraction of it and was carrying around 120 plus pounds of unneeded weight and 200$+ of unneeded battery which I also was not charging properly as I believed the GD MFing smart charger marketing.

A dedicated house battery system can be expensive complicated, and unnecessary. Do get yourself a good plug in 12+ amp charger for when you get home. Sorry no product recommendations, I think they all suck donkey balls.
Turn on the headlights for a minute or three while hooking it up, turn it on, then turn off headlights. You might have to repeat the headlight trick a few times after the charger flashes the green light to get it fully charged. Do not trust the green light, especially if hooking the charger up right after driving as surface charge voltage will trick it into thinking it was hooked to a fully charged battery.

Smart chargers generally stop in the 92 to 95% charged range. The battery wants to be taken back to 100% and will live longer and perform significantly better when it regularly is. Achieving 100% charged is twice as good as 98% charged, in terms of battery capacity retainment.

I've given up on so called 'smart' chargers and use adjustable voltage power supplies and an ammeter, and when I still cycled flooded batteries, a hydrometer, to determine full charge. These confirmation tools showed just how poorly so called smart chargers did their job on a hard working deep cycling battery.

Good enough to start the engine, no where near good enough to prevent premature capacity loss when cycling deeper.










Last edited by wrcsixeight; June 03rd 2020 7:42 am. Reason: overwhelmed with typos, sorry.
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761822 June 03rd 2020 11:21 am
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Wow! A tremendous amount of fascinating and useful data. Thank you very much for sharing. I will pass on to Daughter for her education. She is taking the whole project very seriously so will probably be most interested.

I'm very interested in your suggestion to simply use a single high quality battery for everything. I'm a great believer in KISS and this would certainly fit the bill. Daughter seems to have already made up her mind that the "conventional wisdom" of separate vehicle and house batteries is the way to go and we have purchased a high capacity smart AC charger for the house battery as well as a 20A DC-DC charger already. We could always sell some of this stuff on again of course.

Current travel plans would have two people using 12V lighting, laptops, cameras, phones, TV, etc, and electronic musical instruments while parked. Possibly short bursts of higher current use for hair appliances through an inverter (probably not hair dryers as that would seem to be pushing the limits too far.) Some places may well have 120V hook-ups which they will definitely seek out in warmer areas as the van has a 120V A/C installed. They don't anticipate staying in one place more than a couple of nights at a time (although who knows for sure?) and as they are wanting to see a large part of the USA in a few short weeks, they will probably have a lot of driving time between stops. I will provide a warning about the pitfalls of idling with battery-charger connected. If they find they are mostly staying off-grid, not getting the house battery fully charged between stops and/or staying in one place for long enough to need power over a longer period, the DC-DC also has solar input capability and they will pick up a 100W foldable panel that can be placed near the vehicle. I will add a suitable connection port in readiness. As long as they can make it through the Summer, if the battery care is somewhat sub-optimal, it will not be critical. If we hang on to the vehicle for a long time and need to replace the battery, it will not be a huge burden, although finding a way to maintain the 12V system for longevity and reliability is obviously preferable.

I have a lithium jump-start pack that has easily started a dead V8 before. It will probably go with them in emergency kit, along with tyre repair stuff, other tools, flares, etc.


Last edited by Slartidbartfast; June 03rd 2020 11:38 am.
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