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Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #761860 June 04th 2020 3:00 am
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Glad to help. I've got nearly 20 years experience living on battery power, and enjoy helping others to avoid the mistakes I made.

The intended electrical loads are very helpful into how much battery she can get away with, and for how long the battery needs to be viable.

Number one, is the Laptops usage. This is the single biggest electrical consumer in my rig. If you look at the AC/DC power brick it will say something like output 19.5vDC and 4.5 amps. volts times amperage equals wattage.

So in this example the acdc power supply Is capable of supplying 87.75 watts. This however does not mean the laptop when it is on, wil be consuming that much. I have a 90 watt power supply, but typoing this the actual wattage consumed jumps between 26 and 42 watts, say an average of 35 watts, just online with one window open. insert a dvd and this is 55 to 60 watts. Streaming 1080i video, is 55 to 70 watts. But this is a 2010 dell laptop running windows 7. What yoyur daughter's and her friends laptops actually consume in use depends on teh laptop and the task it is doing, and the state of charge of its internal battery.

Actual amperage/ wattage consumed is great data to have. On Ac power a tool called a Kill a watt is abou 25$ and will give a wattage figure. But batteries are not rated in watt hours, but in amp hours. So one must do a little math, say the battery is at 12.4v amnd the load is 35 watts, how many amps is this? 35 watts divided by 12.4 watts is 2.8 amps of load.

Ok so a group 27 marine battery is about 100 amps hours. This means when it is new, and helathy, and fully charged, it can power a 5 amp load for 20 hours before voltage falls to 10.5v, which is considered 100% discharged. However this does not mean it can power a 20 amp load for 5 hours. The larger the load, the less actual capacity the battery has. This is called the Peukert effect.

Often newbs to living on battery power have no Idea how much battery they are using, how much is left, and actual amp hour counting meters, the good ones, are expensive, require some modification of the vehicles ground cables to pass through a shunt, and then need to be programmed correctly, zeroed when it is know the battery is truly full, and regularly reset when the battery is known to be full and the amp hour counter is not agreeing with the other tools which say it is.

Obviously not something for a couple week long road trip. So what to do, is the simple voltmeter. Get one which reads at least a hundredth of a volt. 12.34v is much more informative than 12.3. Voltage can be extremely misleading though. But parked, discharging powering only 2 laptops and a light or 2, if the battery reads 11.93v that can be a sign one is in the 50% charged range. If they turn off the laptops and in 5 minutes voltage rebounds to 12.4v, then it is more a sign the battery is in the 60 to 65% charged range. The bigger the electrical load the more the battery voltage will fall. How much it rebounds and how quickly it rebounds when the loads are removed, hep one to estimate the state of charge of the battery.

In general the 'rule' which I skoff at a bit, is to not let the battery go below 50% charged. I do not fear this threshold, as long as the nect day I can insure the battery is going to get fully charged or nearly so, but I do not like to really go below 25% charged as that is like a kick in the balls to it. It is not going to be happy especially if the next day it is not recharged to a true 100% state of charge.

One other factor is how many partial state of charge cycles have accumulated inbetween true full charges. Say one discharges to 50% and only gets to 87% before the next discharge cycle begines, that 100 amp hour battery will not have 87 amps hours to give, but each day will walk down a bit farther in capacity and take even longer to reach the same state of charge when recharged. After a week the battery will be at a fraction of its ability and is craving a true full charge, and when it was new and well depleted this might take 6.5 hours, but when PSOC cycled for a week to 10 days this will take 10 to 15 hours, or more. if it does not get this then it is likely that 100Ah battery now only will have 90Ah total available, and recharge a bit slower forever after, which then in turn insures reaching lower states of charge when recharging, which then accellerates capacity loss.

So they might start out the trip with more than enough battery capacity, but by week 6 they can only run their laptops or half as long before voltage drops below 11.9 and does not rebound above 12.0 when they shut it off.

Progressive capacity loss from chronic undercharging in partial state of charge deep cycle duty is a primary battery killer, and the only real way to stave it off is to insure regular true full charges, or at least getting close to that ideal.

But an alternatoive strategy is to simply accept the battery had been kicked in the balls too much to keep being useful, and return it to walmart where hopefully they just hand you a new one and one resets the battery clock.

Keeping a battery super healthy can be taken to ridiculous extremes, and for a few week cross country trip, one can view it as disposable. It is no big deal, unless one is way out in the sticks far from any outlet where the battery can be replaced.

Another factor is flooded batteries offgass when charging. They have to offgass to reach full charge. This electrolysis releases oxygen and hydrogen, and these gasses taks a sulfuric acid mist along with them, which smells like rotten eggs. Sulfuric acid mist is a known carcinogen. The tolernace of any specific human to the smell varies widely, but the mist can also destory ones ability to smell it.

One can read reports all over the web about how person X has been sleeping atop charging batteries for x years without any issue, and person Y breaks out in hives anfd coughing fits in the same situation.

A lot of people avoid the offgassing with an AGM battery in the passenger compartment. I have an underbody battery box, that for years held 2 flooded batteries, but even with a sealed hatch I could still smell them when they were charging at higher voltages/states of charge. I despise the smell.

If you put a battery inside the van body, please make sure it is securely attached to the floor. If it is a flooded battery it is wise to insure there is plenty of ventilation when the battery is charging quickly or at higher states of charge.


The Hair drier on an inverter is a battery murderer. A 1600 watt hair drier, trough an inverter, will draw 1800 watts minimum from the battery. A single healthy group 27 flooded fully charged marine battery, under a 1800 watt load, will instantly fall into the mid to low 11 volt range. lets say 11.4. 1800 divided by 11.4, is a 158 amp load.

This peukert calculator says a 100 amp hour battery can power a 158 amp load for 0.15 hours before falling to 50% charged. Under a 158 amp load the 100Ah battery is no longer 100Ah, but only 36.3 amp hours of capacity. That is also with a likely highly generous peukert number of 1.2. Flooded batteries dont often state their peukert number, and the best AGMS like Odyssey use a 1.15. I suspect flooded marine batteries are more like 1.22 to 1.30 when they are still healthy. Anyway the following calculator can give a good idea how long a healthy fully charged battery can power a load. Keep in mind that it always is assuming a healthy fully charged battery, and that almost never happens in real life.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/batterylifecalc.html

It is easier to use less electricity than add more charging sources. If your dodge is like mine all the light fixtures use a incandescent bulb with a t10 wedge base bulb. but even if it uses an Ba15s bulb, like an 1156 used in your reverse lamps,. all of these have drop in replacement LEDS, which will be brighter and use significantly less energy than incandescent. Switching from incandescent bulbs to LED lighting is pretty much a no brainer. Some LEDs can be so obscenely bright that they do not use all that much less energy though. Anyway remove some interior bulbs, if you have not already, and do some searches. there are a couple caveats with leds, in that incandescent does not care which side is + and which is -, but many LEDs do and the fixture might need its wires swapped if an 1156 bulb base, or with a t10 just flip it 180 degrees.

Another way to save energy it to use a DC to DC laptop 'car adapter' to power the laptops, instead of using an inverter to power the AC/DC power brick the laptop came with. Check Ebay and amazon . Plug in laptop make and model and add 'car adapter'

these will come with a 12v ciggy plug connector. If the laptop's power brick cannot draw more than 60 watts these horrible connectors should be OK for a few week excursion before the4 plug melts internally and hopefully blows the fuse only. Ciggy plugs and receptacles are horrible electrical connections. Ubiquitous and convenient, but a problem waiting to happen, its only a matter of time and current. the more current the less time one has before the inevitable failure.

I Use Anderson powerpoles. This is a whole different topic but in short Anderson powerpoles come in 15/30 and 45 amp versions. All have the same plastic housings, a 45 will mate with a 15, but a 15 amp is for thinner wire gauges, the 45 amp versions use 10 to 12 gauge wire. the 15 and 30 amps versions one does not necessarily require the special crimping tool they sell, and a person good at soldering can skip the crimping of they want. However the 45 amp contacts are quite difficult even for an experienced crimper to crimp properly without the special crimp dies.

I pretty much exclusively use 45 amp powerpoles everywhere. and use them as charging inputs or 12vDC outputs.

They are not an inexpensive connector and are a bit fragile if stepped on.

XT60 connectors are much cheaper, but require good soldering skills.

There are OK versions of ciggy receptacles, but one is pretty much at the mercy of the laptop car adapter's provided ciggy plug.

Since the ciggy plugs are so problem proine when asked to pass more than 60 watts regularly, many peolpe decide instead to just use the original powerbrick plugged into an inverter. This certainly works, but is less efficient.

My DC to DC laptop adapter averages 8 to 12 watts less consumption than using the inverter to power the original power brick provided with the laptop. That is a significant savings, an average of 35 watts, compared to 47.

Generally the inverter is often seen as the solution to powering every household appliance by battery power, but in my opinion it is the single best way to quickly overdeplete the battery. I have one. I use it, as little as possible.

many 12v DC tvs exist. Mine is several years old, has a 13.3 inch flat screen, draws about 1.1 to 1.3 amps watching broadcast Tv stations and about 1.8 amps spinning a DVD. Swithcing on my laptops dc to dc power brick, watching certain tv stations, knocks those tv stations out. but so does the inverter powering the AC to DC power brick. I can turn on my inverter, have it power nothing( it consumes 0.61 amps turned on powering nothing), and actual tv channels 8 and 10, which are very strong in San Diego, disappear. The inverter might or mioght no be a factor in being able to acquire and watch certain TV stations, but its nice to not have to use the inverter to power the tv..

Home depot is carrying a thin frame 100 watt 12v solar panel for 75$. One of these in the center of the roof will keep the bateryt much happier and can take significant loads off the alternator. My 50/120 amp nippondenso alternator was 156 delivered, from Autozone. it might not be a drop in replacement in your 85. it will likely bolt in and align properly, but the wiring could be a bit different. I understand this can be intimidating. if you wish to upgrade the alternator, I can help.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1985,b250,5.2l+318cid+v8,1073269,electrical,alternator+/+generator,2412

looking at the photos, I am less sure, my alternator appears significantly thicker. Do you have a lot of room behind it?.. A dual V belt pulley can easily handle turning a 120 amp alternator, I only use one V belt though I have a dual V belt pulley. Perhaps you can have an autoparts store pull out the one designated for your 85 and one for an 89 and compare the mounting feet distance from tabletop when placed on the pulley face. Mines located on the passenger side just in front of the manifold.

i think its likely an old 60 amp alternator is not going to be happy having to regularly recharge a depleted house battery. Upgrading to a higher capacity alternator before they leave can save them a few days of headaches.

If your daughter is keen to learn some basics of living on Dc electricity, here are a few links that are well written:

https://marinehowto.com/automotive-alternators-vs-deep-cycle-batteries/

https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/

He has plenty more helpful links, but the marine guys take things several steps further than really necessary in a Van. He states the proper and best way to do certain things, he does not say you can get away with this...by doing this.

The 'what is a deep cycle battery' link can be summed up as 'beware of the sticker'

Most marine batteries which say deep cycle, are no more durable than a starting battery in deep cycle duty, they just cost more, have less/no warranty but have threaded studs in addition to automotive posts for connections.

A couple week excursion a true deep cycle battery and a proper charging system to insure it can achieve 1000+ deep cycles, is not really required.

But it is entirely possible to kill a marine battery in a few weeks by using it hard nightly, and then chronically undercharging it.

I try to outline what Ideal would be, but then stress that one can spend ridiculous sums and spend way too much time truing to achieve it. its often much easier and less stressful to view the battery as more disposable. the gola then is to not be surprised when it is done, but to know the warning signs. Like voltage falling much more rapidly when not using it nearly as much, and a long extended recharge not positively affecting this.

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762082 June 08th 2020 9:44 am
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Found a set of turbine/cyclone wheels at the scrapyard while picking up a replacement AC/Vent control and some seatbelt parts. They look great and period-correct (think A-team van) but unfortunately one is warped and won't balance correctly. Found a set of correct hub caps for a great price so will be taking the one alloy wheel to a local wheel shop to see if they can do anything with it but the back-up plan is to stick with the original steel wheels.

Driver's seat pivot was a little more challenging than anticipated as the chair initially hit the steering wheel so would not swing around. Moved the pivot point back and to the right an inch or so, which might upset some people's OCD but it still supports the seat securely and now pivots nicely.

Tropical Storm Cristobal blew through yesterday and the new A/C gasket didn't let a drop in so that's also good news.

There's a big box in the garage with engine and transmission oil and filters, belts, brake pads and a few other bits. Plugs, wires and distributor cap are all on the way (no issues I am aware of with the currently installed items but for forty years I have replaced all these items right away on every old car I ever purchased and NEVER had an ignition-related issue.)

Have not yet got to wiring up the battery and associated chargers, etc. but my daughter and her road-trip buddy are busy replacing all the interior panels and haven't figured out where they want 12V lights and outlets yet. They are getting the battery today - most likely a 100Ah sealed AGM so no issues with venting it.

Will get some more photos up soon.

Last edited by Slartidbartfast; June 08th 2020 9:45 am.
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762086 June 08th 2020 11:56 am
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Replacing the air vent cover (old one had been, inexplicably, screwed directly through the roof, cracking the corners off the cover and creating holes that had to be filled):
[Linked Image]

Looking a bit shinier:
[Linked Image]

Retrieving wheels from a 1970's Ford at the local scrapyard. Tires looked ok from a distance but were actually Sears re-treads from 1985 - Danger!... Danger!:
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Slartidbartfast; June 08th 2020 6:09 pm.
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762194 June 11th 2020 1:05 pm
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Hard at work:
[Linked Image]

Five brand new tires (we are making some progress toward getting it inspected and fully roadworthy). One of the alloy rims would not balance to my satisfaction (for a vehicle that is going to be driven thousands of highway miles soon) so they are up for sale. Found some more original hub-caps so the steel wheels should look nice. Daughter purchased and installed a tire pressure monitoring system:
[Linked Image]

I think I've positively identified the alternator as a 60A variety, with external voltage regulator:
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Slartidbartfast; June 11th 2020 4:26 pm.
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762196 June 11th 2020 2:03 pm
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Coming along nicely. I have an 87 and it’s such a reliable great van. Your daughter should really enjoy it. Makes it more fun after you’ve done all this work to it


1987 B250 - Painkiller
Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762243 June 13th 2020 1:39 am
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Got a lot done today, including:
  • Oil and filter change;
  • Transmission oil, filter and pan gasket. Found no magnet in the pan so that entailed (yet) another trip to the local auto parts emporium;
  • Adjusted the kick-down and first/reverse bands;
  • New plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor. Discovered only one pickup coil which does not seem to be correct for a 1985 B250. I wonder what else is not to original specifications?;
  • Tidied up some wiring and replaced the heat/AC control-panel;
  • Installed new headlamps with LED conversion;
  • Finished the sink, ready to install. It has a small rechargeable water pump - much cheaper and simpler than a foot pump or hard-wired pump;
  • Almost completed the ceiling and test-fitted it;
  • Loads of interior bits sanded/painted/modified; and
  • Numerous other small details.


Main vehicle servicing chores still to do include belts, brakes, a couple of brake hoses and dealing with a leaky rear axle seal. Tons of bits and pieces still to do inside - including all the 12V wiring from the house battery.

Discovered that the spare tire hits the tail-lamp when the rear door is fully open. Must have been like that for years. I wonder how the heck nobody noticed. Certainly explains the broken tail lamp. Pulled the rack off and cut the tire mount off. Will be re-welded about 1-1/2" further over.

I tested the AC charger yesterday and it turned out to be a dud, DOA. That was sent back today and we found a local supplier with a Noco Genius 15000 in stock. That and the DC-DC charger should go in some time tomorrow or Sunday.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762258 June 13th 2020 11:59 pm
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Got the van inspected today. Passed with no issues -Yay!

Not much else to report. Spent today working on the passenger swivel seat and seat belt. Re-worked the spare wheel carrier. Took both front brakes apart and discovered I had been given the wrong hose for the one that needed replacement (must wait 'till tomorrow for the correct part.)

Question for the collective wisdom of the list: What type of jack should I have? I've been using my big trolley jack but that weighs 100 pounds so not a good choice for on-the-road use.

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762259 June 14th 2020 2:51 am
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My spare tire can hit the taillight if I choose the wrong mounting bolt on the hub when Lifting the tire. many different carrier designs. I can just fit a 30x9.5x15 tire on mine without hitting other door or taillamp.

My 89 came with a bumperjack that hooked into slots in the bumper close to the frame rails. It worked great! while it worked. I had it attached to spare tire carrier with hose clamps, over a lot of Baja's washboard, and the ratchet mechanism refused to work properly there after one time leaving me suspended unable to lower the vehicle, properly. I Regret not having taken care of it properly. It was however kind of bulky to keep inside, easily accessible, yet out of the way.

I now 'get away with' travelling with a small 2 or 3 ton bottlejack now maybe 2 of them, but I carry wood to spread the load on the ground, and position the jack very precisely before allowing it to take any weight, repositioning if required, and roll prevention measures on more than one other tire, using whatever I can find inside or nearby. Its usually been desert and hot as F when I've needed to change tires. The wood to spread the load would have been necessary with any jack every time.

I hope the new headlights work properly with led bulbs in them. Please check for excessive glare to oncoming drivers, and that at 45 mph or faster there is adequate light far enough ahead to see properly. It's really hit or miss whether the beam pattern is really acceptable, and not just white and therefore seemingly bright and better.

Some guy in the news recently was ripped from his vehicle for failing to dim his headlamps. They might have been dimmed, but just had excessive glare from mating an LED bulb into a halogen housing, and it was a perfect excuse to pull him over.

Getting blinded by too much glare is annoying, and unsafe for both drivers. Takes older eyes longer to recover night vision when blinded with blue/ white light than it does halogen's yellow. Dazzle Grampa, and he might drift into your lane unintentionally. If they keep getting flashed by other drivers, have a plan, and simply lowering the beam might not suffice.

I see so many after market leds in halogen housings, pointed so close to the car, that the driver can't even see the hotspot, and with Zero light on the road well ahead of them, where it is needed. That, is the opposite of an 'upgrade'.

Re: 1985 RAM B250 Royal Van - Project
Slartidbartfast #762325 June 15th 2020 11:23 am
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Latest:

Spare tire does NOT touch the tail-light yay

I was supplied with two incorrect brake hoses. The correct ones won't be available for at least a couple of days curse - At least I dealt with a couple of over-tightened connectors and now know how to get at everything quickly and easily.

Flushed some nasty old brake fluid with a bit of sediment out of the system eek


Started on changing the belts: worms

Finally discovered some metric bolts on the vehicle - The pivot bolts and pulley bolts for the smog pump rolleyes

Found a drip of coolant on the bottom of the radiator, so that's out and awaiting repair/replacement. cry I suppose it gave me the opportunity to inspect the radiator hoses (which look ok), access is better for changing the remaining belts and the thermostat may be easier to get at. lol
[Linked Image]


Question: Is there a compelling reason to keep the smog pump hooked up. It looks as if the EGR system has been disabled and the van still runs just fine. Not sure what the smog pump adds - especially as this vehicle does not seem to have a cat.


Last edited by Slartidbartfast; June 17th 2020 12:26 am.
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