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Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753083
October 06th 2019 9:24 pm
October 06th 2019 9:24 pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
mlarky Offline OP
enthusiast
mlarky  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
Reed, you were right about the factory wall a/c, won't work on mine with the bay windows. Damn it! Guess I'll be making a run to Pick N Pull for an after market piece, maybe a ceiling mount type. But that's later down the road. Was hot out today here, a humid 93. So I didn't get quite as much done as I wanted. BUT...next weekend the forecast is for our first real cool front. Jacket weather in the morning and the afternoon high in the low 70's. Perfect engine pulling weather! Got some trim pieces out of the donor van I can use to replace cracked ones on mine. Looked at the whole wiring harness as best I could. Checking routing, making notes, taking pics. Everything up to the firewall seems straight forward. In the dash I have to check diagrams to see what stays the same or not.

Went all over and under the whole drive train. Made a list of needs. On a tight budget, so trying to keep work to a minimum, and not temp fate with the coulda shoulda's. I get 20% employee discount on parts and that helps. Over all the drive train is in great shape for 86,000 miles.

Now looking at the drive shaft issue. My drive shaft and the donor van are very different in diameter, but the yokes and u-joints look very similar. Thinking the difference between B250 3/4 ton and a B350 1 ton. More research needed. If I have to have mine modified in length, it will need to be shortened around 12". Last time I got one modified cost just under $100. But that was about a dozen years ago, so may well cost more. Have been hoping a run to a yard might result in a drive shaft from a shorty with V8 and AOD, but there may well be a distinct difference between one with a 318 and a 360 and which ever tranny it has. Bet 360 shorties are rare.

Previous owner bypassed the fuel filter with a piece of hose, so definitely getting new fuel filter. Valve cover gaskets had a slight dampness at the bottom, nothing major but they are going to be replaced just because they're cheap and easy. Trans output shaft was wet, the tail shaft was oily, and so it will be replaced. Other than that, no leaks anywhere else. Even dirt and road crud was at a surprising minimum. Motor mounts and tranny mounts are cheap and definitely getting done. Transmission is getting new filter and gasket, Fresh fluid. When the budget allows I will add an external cooler. I have a transmission shop I work with, that I trust to adjust the bands. Dan rebuilt mine about 50,000 miles ago and said he would buy it back from me, then give me a core so when I call the yard for pickup, I have a drive train of some kind that "goes with the van". Garnish a few more dollars I hope.

As for the timing chain, my way to check without pulling the cover, is old school..move the crank and see if the distributor rotor moves that same amount. If not, I will replace it. Another $45 if I do and go with double roller chain and gears, few buck more for gaskets. New radiator and bypass hoses, new belts. I had put a new power steering pump and pressure hose on mine 2 months ago. Turns out they are the same part number! So I keep that. My alternator is 2 years old, but the 5.9 uses 4 V belts, be nice if I can swap the pulley and make it work. Not sure about the amperage of either, need to check. Will see on other parts that work on either. I have so many recent and new parts on mine, hoping more will work on both. My year old ac compressor doesn't fit the 360, mounts differently. I'll keep it for someone with a 3.9 v6 and sell it cheap.

Thanks for your input pal!

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Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753091
October 06th 2019 11:36 pm
October 06th 2019 11:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,034
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,034
Fircrest, WA
Sounds like you have good plans. THe older aftermarlet rear AC units weren't that good, but I just got a 94 E150 conversion van and it has a newer rear aftermarket AC/heat unit and it kicks ass. Blows VERY strong and hot and cold no problem. It is also very compact, barely larger than a loaf of bread. Try and get a unit out of a mid to late 90s conversion van.

The overdrive auto transmissions came in two different varieties- the A500 and A518. The A518 is the heavier duty one and it is longer than the A500 and uses a different front driveshaft yoke than the A500. If you are shopping for a junkyard driveshaft, you will need to match wheelbase, transmision, and rear axle. These all affect the length of the driveshaft and the yoke and u-joints used.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753163
October 08th 2019 11:27 pm
October 08th 2019 11:27 pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
mlarky Offline OP
enthusiast
mlarky  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
Ok, Now know my new starter, and alternator fit the 5.9. Need only a pulley swap on the alternator for the V belts. New power steering pump also the same. So I'll put the newer parts from mine, and save the old ones for back ups.

After market ac is on the wait till later list. Want the engine swap done asap. Hoping by end of the month. Weather finally fall like here. So the swap is priority, and the ac can wait.

The drive shaft issue is still has me researching. Know what to look for now, based on yoke sizes. My tranny is the A500, says on hood options tag. The yokes on this one are bigger, probably since it's the 1 ton with the 9" diff. Gotta figure what will ultimately work on mine as a 3/4 ton with 8.25 differential. I'm thinking yoke at diff stays the same, but need to determine the yoke at the tranny, then hope I don't have to suck it up and go for modifying mine to fit. Trial fit the yoke from mine on the A500? Don't think I need such a big fat drive shaft and heavier yokes like on the 1 ton. Still trying to find out if the A 500 is used on the 5.2 vans. Then maybe I could find the needle in the haystack shorty van with 5.2 and A500 and snag that drive shaft. Or am I dreaming? Hope I get lucky and can save the cost of modifying mine.

Talked to Greg Spreen today, who owns highly respected engine building shop, and is one of my commercial customers. He builds mostly high performance and racing engines. His waiting list is now about 3 months. But I digress...Told him about the 5.9 swap. He lit up. Said so many good things about the 5.9 Magnum motor. Mine is the first year of the 5.9 Magnum, and how Dodge made great upgrades from the earlier 360's, with the Roller cam, better timing gears, etc. He went on and on for about 4 minutes, I forgot some of technical aspects he told me. He said they were great engines, almost bullet proof. Just don't run low on oil and or let them overheat. In his mind, With regular maintenance it should go 250,000 or even more. Seen many go over 300k when taken care of. Builds many 5.9 Magums for racing and hot rods in the area. His recommendations were replace only what's leaking and run as is. Asked about timing chain, how I do the old school check. He said it should already have the good steel double chain and gears from the factory, and since only it had 86k, I should be fine. But my call. Then he threw me for a loop!! Greg said I should run 15w40 diesel oil !!!, Claimed the 5.9 magnums run better with that. 5w30 if it's cold climate for cold start issues, on below freezing days. ( we get maybe 7 to 10 days worth of combined below freezing days most winters where I live). Even if with 15w40 on a freezing morning, start engine, let it warm up for a minute idling. Beyond that said the 5w30 is to satisfy the EPA for mpg's. Diesel oil has better additives than conventional oils, due to the high compression of those engines. Then he told how he gets some 5.9's people think had blown, because they run rough and smoke. Most only need gasket replaced on the plate on the bottom side of the factory cast intake. The gasket blows out if the engine backfires. Then starts sucking in vacuum and oil. The vacuum makes it run rough or idle bad, then oil get sucked into intake and burns in the cylinders, makes you think bad rings and such. Saved many people the cost of an overhaul with new gaskets. Sounds like I got a good motor for my shorty.

Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753164
October 09th 2019 1:24 am
October 09th 2019 1:24 am
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,689
San Diego
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wrcsixeight Offline
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wrcsixeight  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,689
San Diego
My 1989 b250 has a 5.2 and an A-500 tx. Last year I took the driveshaft to be balanced and found the yoke going into the TX had the I joint bearing cap spinning inside of it. A new yoke was easily obtained by the driveline shop. I was suspicious it was so easy for them to obtain but old and new were identical and it slid into place like butter. It was something like 175$ for a 2 new U joints, a balancing and the new Yoke, and a paint job. I had treated all the rust on teh driveshaft with a wire wheel and Ospho before I brought it in, but let them paint it.

Diesel oils are not restricted in Zinc and phosphorus(ZDDP) parts per million, and neither are 40 or 50 weight oils, but 20 and 30 are. ZDDP is an antiwear sacrifical layer and also an antioxidant. more is not necessarily better from a wear standpoint above a certain amount, but more of it does last longer in its antioxidant duties.

While many engines will outlast their chassis with 5w-30, or even 5w-20 or 0w-20 and perhaps even the new 0w-16 for that matter, thicker oil can protect better under high load and when the oil itself is hotter and thinner. Thinner oils are largely for fuel economy, but can flow faster at cold temperatures and perhaps lube better briefly while warming up. Being thinner they have less film strength and when hot can allow metal on metal contact.

I've run 20w-50, 10w-40, 5w-40(diesel oil), 10w-30, 0w-30, 0w-40 synthetic and conventional, regular and high mileage versions, but the 0ws have to be synthetic.

I was using Mobil1 oils for years, a 5qt jug at wally world is under 23$, even the highly venerated 0w-40. I decided to try Pennzoil platinum 10w-30 and my engine got noticeably quieter in the 45 seconds after starting it with the PP 10w-30 in the sump. The engine basically stopped burning oil 4K miles into this oil change on an x country road trip, which I changed at 8500 miles. Current fill is PP 10w-30 HM which is a bit thicker than their non HM version at both 40c and 100C, and also has higher flashpoint, and this oil is even quieter.

The noisiest oil in my 5.2 was 20w-50, my lifters ticked so loudly always, I dropped it in 500 miles and used a thinner oil and the ticking disappeared in about 15 seconds of idling. Never tried 15w-40 but would not fear it, even in a colder climate, in these engines, LA or magnum.

I'm staying with Pennzoil platinum 10w-30 for the forseeable future, I get as good of oil pressure at hot idle as Mobil1 0w-40, and at cruising rpm, and it is quieter, and I need no make up oil, and basically do not even need to check the level, it has not budged in 5k+ miles.

The lesser spread between the two numbers on oil, the less likely they are to shear to a thinner oil. The viscosity index improvers are so much better than those used in the 80s and 90', so oils today are not as prone to shearing to thinner as they once were. My users manual says specifically to not use 10w-40.
10w-40's in 1988 were prone to quickly shearing to less than a 20 weight oil at full temperature and could not prevent excessive wear under high loads, in addition to other once upon a time motor oil issues that no longer exist.

I never needed the 0w cold start oil either, in a mild environment, I largely got those oils as the synthetic base stocks required to meet the 0w rating, means more PAO( group 4, and Ester( group 5) synthetic oils, where 5w and 10 and 15w synthetic oils can meet those figures with a higher percentage of group 3 hydrocracked mineral oils which are considered synthetic in north America, but not in Germany.

One of the quietest oils in my engine was Mobil 1 0w-30 advanced fuel economy version, and it never saw a sub freezing cold start. NO shortage of people will say that is an insane oil to use in such an engine and environment, but the used oil analysis came back with no more wear metals than any other oil. Lots of oil myths out there, and the waxy pennzoil and quaker state sludge issues will still get shouted from the rooftops followed by a rain of spittle, but have not been true, since 1992.

Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: wrcsixeight] #753169
October 09th 2019 7:59 am
October 09th 2019 7:59 am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
mlarky Offline OP
enthusiast
mlarky  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
Wow! Thanks for the details and scientific oil explanation !! Like you said oils have come a long way since last century. Been mulling all the oil talk in my head, adding my "experience" of wrenching on vehicles since high school, working in the automotive field for decades, advice of others, etc. I'm thinking at this point, I will run 10w30 high mileage formula oil since the donor motor already has 86k on it. Been running 10w30 HM semi-synthetic on my 3.9 since I bought it almost 8 years ago when it had 106k, now just rolled over to 236k. No internal engine issues. Last year replaced valve cover gaskets and no sludge build up. Also none when I replaced the pan gasket about 4 years ago. I was happy to see inside the block was clean at 180k. So the previous owner did it right. I kept it up. The key to any engine longevity is the maintenance. And since so many people barley do the minimums, they keep mechanics and parts houses in business. Greg's suggestion of 15w40 diesel certainly caught me off guard.

Appreciate the info on the driveshaft. Gives me hope I can find one in a yard. When I do the swap, logistically I can't be without the van to get to work. Taking a 3 or 4 day weekend to pull the v6 out and swap the 5.9 in after I have the new drive train ready. My hope has been find one that fits in a yard, take it for balancing, u-joints, then be able to have it ready for the swap. Not surprised the shop could get or have the right yoke so easily. It's what they do. They stock what they need if they're smart, or have fast reliable supplier. I am a commercial sales manager for Auto Zone. My job is parts sales to mechanic shops and dealers. I supply them the parts they need and often can find those hard find or supposedly obsolete parts rather frequently. I could, for example, find a yoke for my 92 B250 van and have it in a shop's hands within 24 to 48 hours in most cases.

Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753336
October 15th 2019 7:34 pm
October 15th 2019 7:34 pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
mlarky Offline OP
enthusiast
mlarky  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
Work on hold. Only have motor mounts to loosen and engine wiring, vacuum connections to carefully remove and the engine is ready to pull. Wife got sick Saturday evening, ended up in ICU. She has lupus, and it's gotten into the next stage and affecting her heart. It's causing congestive heart failure and kidney issues. Hoping she's home by this weekend, and if I get lucky I can finish pulling engine and harnesses at least. A few hours and I should have it all out. Then as time and her health allow I can get the engine cleaned up, fix what's needed for the next step. My original plan had been by the end of the month for the swap, but it will be day to day for the foreseeable future.

Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753340
October 15th 2019 9:53 pm
October 15th 2019 9:53 pm
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 397
Portland, OR
D
Deathorvictory Offline
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Deathorvictory  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 397
Portland, OR
Best of luck and hope your wife is feeling better.


1979 Dodge B200 Shorty, 1987 B250 Longy
Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753354
October 16th 2019 11:39 am
October 16th 2019 11:39 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,034
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,034
Fircrest, WA
Sorry to hear about your wife. She definitely comes before the van does. I hope she has a quick recovery.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: Mlarky's 92 Dodge maybe getting new drive train soon. [Re: mlarky] #753417
October 18th 2019 2:10 pm
October 18th 2019 2:10 pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
mlarky Offline OP
enthusiast
mlarky  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Pipe Creek Tx ( North of San A...
Thanks for the best wishes guys. Hoping she is home later today or tomorrow. Doing batter. Big scare to say the least.

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