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Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: rebar] #724023
May 26th 2017 4:17 pm
May 26th 2017 4:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,354
Dundee, Michigan
Ram4ever Offline
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Posts: 4,354
Dundee, Michigan
3M offers several different cleaners which are specific to cleaning surface contaminants due to old adhesives, prior to new adhesive or paint application. A particularly convenient one is their 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner 15oz. Aerosol #08987, which is inexpensive and simple to use, as it comes as a conventional spray can,, and it addresses your one concern by being a less volatile material, so it deals handily with lifting embedded contaminants out of deep pores and surface texture after abrasives have been used. It is also available in quarts, as 3M 8984 General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner - #08984.

Another strong possibility might be 3M Prep Solvent-70, Gallon, #08983.

Last edited by Ram4ever; May 26th 2017 4:21 pm.

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Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: Ram4ever] #724032
May 27th 2017 6:36 am
May 27th 2017 6:36 am
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Iowa
R
rebar Offline OP
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rebar  Offline OP
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Iowa
I would pick the 3M Prep Solvent-70 as its intended use is cleaning "prior to coating"

I keep reading "Wax and grease removers".. But I also keep reading many pro's say you should use two metal preps. The first a solvent based cleaner.. And the second a water based cleaner like the 3M Prep Solvent-70..

As far as fillers.. I have high hopes that the silica will make the epoxy thixotropic, or defy gravity. MGF is for strength and microballoons ease sanding.. But its the thixotropic properties of silica which I hope helps keep the epoxy from running down hill.

I wish I knew what fillers bondo glass and the like have mixed in them.

Last edited by rebar; May 27th 2017 6:41 am.

1995 E350 6bt/nv4500
Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: rebar] #724035
May 27th 2017 12:41 pm
May 27th 2017 12:41 pm
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,637
San Diego
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wrcsixeight Offline
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San Diego
https://www.systemthree.com/blogs/epoxy-files/83508804-section-vii-c-modifying-epoxy-with-fillers

Mechanical tooth/ sanding scratches with sharp new sandpaper will help the bond greatly.

Before mixing anything into the epoxy to thicken it, paint some epoxy on the bare prepped metal. With bare wood this is very important as the wood can suck the epoxy out of the thickener and the bond line will fail, with metal one is just ensuring the valleys are filled with epoxy, not air.

It is important not to push contaminants into the valleys when sanding/ scratching for mechanical tooth.

I am not so impressed with the bond strength of regular bondo. it does sand nicely though. Sometimes epoxy can be a butch to sand. The plastic trick can greatly diminish the amount of sanding required.

Experiment before committing to any one method.

I am not always so fond of fillers to thicken. Sometimes I will mix a batch, wet the surfaces to be mated/filled/bridged then wait for the epoxy to thicken in the cup until it no longer is runny, then apply it with some sort of tool, possibly use the plastic over it and mold it as it thickens further.


Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: wrcsixeight] #724762
June 14th 2017 6:28 pm
June 14th 2017 6:28 pm
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Iowa
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rebar Offline OP
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rebar  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Iowa
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight

I am not always so fond of fillers to thicken. Sometimes I will mix a batch, wet the surfaces to be mated/filled/bridged then wait for the epoxy to thicken in the cup until it no longer is runny, then apply it with some sort of tool, possibly use the plastic over it and mold it as it thickens further.


Iv found that epoxy in this thickened, or beginning to set up state, is super sticky and will not release or flow off of a tool cleanly. So I made a mold of the side gutter and will lay up up a replacement part first. Epoxy it in place on the van and then apply more layers behind to strengthen like I did on the back gutter.

My problem now, is I cant get 2" packing tape to lay smoothly in this concave mold. Mainly the drip edge. I had more luck with the wooden mold for the back gutter because the mold was larger, wooden, and I routered a 1/4" drip edge. The side gutter mold's drip edge is 3/16" and each time I try to apply packing tape, I get air bubbles and folds because the packing tape sticks so well to the epoxy mold. Maybe Im fighting it because this side gutter mold is so small, and my tape is 2" wide? Can I use 1/2" cellophane tape instead and meet two pieces inside the drip edge?

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

The back gutter is looking great! I have some sanding and a few air bubbles to fill.. But I bet at first glance you wouldnt know its been repaired when I'm finished..

[Linked Image]


If I wanted to post cure these repairs, how can I localize heating up to 130 degrees? I'm a bit worried about it softening in the sun even with white paint because when I washed my epoxy mold in hot running water, it became soft.

Thanks!


1995 E350 6bt/nv4500
Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: rebar] #724766
June 14th 2017 6:59 pm
June 14th 2017 6:59 pm
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,637
San Diego
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wrcsixeight Offline
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wrcsixeight  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,637
San Diego
Post curing at higher strengthens the epoxy, but this is not really a requirement in this application in my opinion.

I would fear it might compromise the bond to the steel.

Applying the 'thickened by time' epoxy certainly is very time sensitive.

I'd use freezer bags for molding, not cellophane tape. The adhesves in the tape can remain behind and cause secondary bonding issues.

Sometimes bubbles or gaps are unavoidable. Once one decides to leave them, it is best to try and drill a hole and inject some more into the void somehow. Sometimes this requires a small drill hole top and bottom.

If the weave of the cloth does not want to bend as desired, sometimes pullmany individual strands from the cloth and lay they all in the same direction like an unbraided rope. I use a low of woven roving like this, just pulling larger individual strands. These larger individual strands can be difficult to wet out completely. helps to bend and flatten the roving over a smooth radius I will tape one end of the roving, and use a corner of the cardboard to lay the roving in and allow the epoxy time to saturate, then lift with one hand and squeeze out the extra resin.


Re: Softer, longer lasting Rain Gutter Seam Sealer? [Re: rebar] #744589
January 18th 2019 3:49 pm
January 18th 2019 3:49 pm
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Saguache, Colorado
B
BushcraftVan Offline
stranger
BushcraftVan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Saguache, Colorado
Hi guys, I'm new and a bit late to the conversation, but I used Dicor Self Leveling Lap Sealant RV Roof Caulk to seal the rain channel seam on the top of my 77' Chevy G20 Van. All the hardcore van living guys swear by it. It really settles into the all the cracks and seams and is also paintable. I bought mine from a local RV place, but it is also available online. I used 3 tubes on my van roof but it is best to buy 4 because you don't want to run out in the middle of the job. Hope this helps.....

Last edited by BushcraftVan; January 18th 2019 3:54 pm.
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