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| | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 stranger | OP stranger Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 | It'd be great to find the shackle bushings, but out back I'm running the stock 78 b200 rear leaf springs with firestone rideright air springs to help out as needed. If I find that I need stiffer springs in the rear it will likely wait till my probably never gonna happen 4wd conversion happens. Up front is where I'm trying to decide between the severe duty coils and the extra stiff "rv package" springs. Either set adds two inches of compressed height to the front which together with matched 16" wheels and proper tires will address the rake and hopefully sit me pretty level with the permanent weight that will be installed, ie: interior/utilities/etc.
As far as control arms, idk about changes within model years but I know that after 78, probably in 79 or 80, the mounting of the upper control arms completely changed from eccentric lobed bolts for alignment adjustment to a sliding block type system. I havent yet compared the arms themselves to see if the early bushings will drop into the mid arms and enable swapping from the arms out but I do plan to. The lower arms are also completely different between a 78 b200 and an 86 b350. Obviously the later b350 lca's are much beefier with a larger mounting bolt, larger bushing, more metal overall and a more reinforced design.
On another note, got the beginnings of my cabin electrical system: a smart battery isolator, a marine and flash rated disconnect, a really slick partitioned 12 circuit fuse panel, a little usb charger/ digital voltmeter/12v socket panel, a lexan sheet to mount this hot mess and about 20ft of 0 gauge neoprene jacket welding lead. Need some amp hours and photovoltaics..... Also need to start figuring out interior insulation and paneling.....
Anyone interested in my original seats? 2 low back buckets and one fixed bench all matched brown vinyl in really good shape save for a few blemishes in top rear of the bench. I can post pics
Last edited by liftarc; August 06th 2018 10:12 pm.
75 Plymouth Voyager build in progress: 5.9 Magnum with Demon 4bbl, built 727, al radiator, custom dash, custom kayak/canoe rack, solar/inverter/deep cycle setup, helper airbags, on board air, forklift-proof rear bumper....toolbox hauler/steath camper/long drawn out project.....
| | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 | I pulled out my dealer's manual, which does cover 1978.
There was only one upper control arm for 1978, though there were two ball joint packages; a heavy duty and non heavy duty.
The lower control arm has two options; a heavy duty package, and a non heavy duty package with reinforcement. That one has me puzzled; I'd think a reinforcement would go on a heavy arm, but that's the way it's listed in the parts manual!
As for front springs, it gets rather complicated.
The 3492934 1400/1570 pound spring is used on B2 & B3 vans, as is the 3492935 1475/1645 pound spring. Then there is a 3492936 1500/1720 pound spring, which for some reason doesn't indicate which vehicle, then you get into B3 only springs. There is the 4032442 1575/1725 pound spring, which is only for use with 8.75-16.5 tires, then the 3496341 1725/1915 pound spring, and the 4086492 1850/2050 pound spring.
There is a note which explains that "Spring ratings will now be listed as Pad/Ground Capacity" - so that's what those pounds numbers mean.
Any of those springs will fit stock control arms. I'm not sure what you'll encounter when mixing and matching parts over that 1978 threshold in production.
For 1979 and up, they listed three different capacities of upper control arms, 3300, 3600, & 4000 pound, along with separate bushing packages and jounce bumpers rated for each arm.
The 1979 and up springs had different numbers and ratings than the 1978, although some of the 79 model year which were produced up through December of 1978 springs are listed on the 1979 page.
There is a break point in capacity in front suspensions where up to 3300 pounds uses 5-lug wheels, while the 3600 and 4000 pound use 8 lug wheels.
There were three 1979 and up lower control arms. The 4210464-5 for B1 & B2 vans, and the 4164464-5 for 3600 pound axles and the 4036808-9 for 4000 pound axles. There is no specific mention made of B3 vans.
There is a free Russian website which has pdf copies of a Chrysler dealer's parts manual. You have to hunt up the correct section; there are other vehicles listed too. These vans are considered light trucks. The manuals only cover 81-96, (though I've found some potions go into the 2000's) but are well worth having for research purposes; you can find the correct parts nomenclature and part numbers, which helps when locked in stare down matches with Chrysler dealers parts counterpersons, or when performing searches on Parts Voice, for instance.
Http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Chrysler_Service_Parts_Catalog/CD1/81-96/
Hope all that helps firm up your picture of what was available.
BTW, those lowback seats you have are quite desirable! You should list them in the for sale forum.
-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts... Are you living to work, or working to live? Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! | | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 stranger | OP stranger Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 | Thank you Ram4ever for the detailed reply!
In looking for aftermarket replacement coil springs I've seen that there are typically 4 options, 2 at the roughly 11" compressed height and 2 at roughly 13". Of the 2 at 13" one is 7/16" taller uncompressed and slightly stiffer but otherwise the same. I'm thinking to go with the softer 13" springs which are Moog part no 7226.
My main concern at this point is if my camber will be able to adjust within spec. I may be creating an issue with the haphazardly mismatched parts but I'll figure it out. I'm not afraid of welding the 86 b350 style upper control arm mounts in if necessary, I'd rather not burn the time but we'll see....
75 Plymouth Voyager build in progress: 5.9 Magnum with Demon 4bbl, built 727, al radiator, custom dash, custom kayak/canoe rack, solar/inverter/deep cycle setup, helper airbags, on board air, forklift-proof rear bumper....toolbox hauler/steath camper/long drawn out project.....
| | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 | It might be worth sending a PM to Wrcsixeight; he had taken measurements, researched and replaced his somewhat later model B van front springs, and perhaps would be willing to add his insight to the picture. I recall he replaced the rubber spring isolation pads with some he liked well enough to get me on board and buy the same.
-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts... Are you living to work, or working to live? Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! | | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 veteran | veteran Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 | My 89 B250 originally had springs with the diameter the same as Moog 7270. I upgraded to the Moog 7272, I was afraid they would be too stiff, they are not. The 1/2 ton v6 came with Moog 7268, 3/4 7270 and th3 B350 1 tons came with 7272, as far as I know. I used moog 160037 coil spring isolators https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K160037-Coil-Spring-Insulator/dp/B002M6J5MO | | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 | Thanks for jumping in Wrcsixeight! It's great to gather all this detailed information in one spot for future researchers.
-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts... Are you living to work, or working to live? Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! | | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 stranger | OP stranger Joined: Dec 2017 Posts: 23 | Here is the info I've gathered on Moog springs for Dodge vans. The height is shown as compressed-uncompressed. I'm sure compressed height varies a small amount based on actual curb weight and maybe other factors. I don't fully understand load rating vs spring rate, how one can be higher on one spring and the other higher on another.... 7172: 0.82" bar dia 11.0-12.5" height 4" id 1525# load 1043# rate 7172s: 0.84" bar dia 11.0-12.91" height 4" id 2026# load 1067# rate 7270: 0.81" bar dia 11.25-13.94" height 3.99" id 2264# load 855# rate 7272: 0.87" bar dia 11.25-13.8" height 4" id 2659# load 962# rate 7268: 0.78" bar dia 11.27-13.72" height 4" id 1888# load 748# rate 7226: 0.9" bar dia 13.13-14.65" height 4" id 1725# load 1144# rate 7226s: 0.9" bar dia 13.12-15.09" height 4" id 2224# load 1133# rate I got 7226 springs and 160037 isolators. I want the additional height to clear tires I already have and with plans for a radius arm/coil spring 4x4 conversion later on, building a kingpin dana 60 off a 92 Cummins truck and I have a first gen A518/NP241 combo in the yard.
Last edited by liftarc; August 17th 2018 11:02 pm.
75 Plymouth Voyager build in progress: 5.9 Magnum with Demon 4bbl, built 727, al radiator, custom dash, custom kayak/canoe rack, solar/inverter/deep cycle setup, helper airbags, on board air, forklift-proof rear bumper....toolbox hauler/steath camper/long drawn out project.....
| | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 | Dynamite info! Thanks for collecting and sharing all that.
Several of those springs are quite light, like would be used on B100 vans.
Here's a shot at explaining how the ratings work:
The spring rate is a standard for comparison; It's just how much weight is required to compress a spring by 1". On a 1725 pound spring with an 1144 rate, it should take 1144 pounds to compress by 1".
A spring can have a linear or non-linear compression. Sometimes you can tell to look at them, such as if some of the coils have a different diameter or spacing, it's apt to be non-linear.
If it's got linear response, it would take 2288 (1144x2) to compress the 1725 pound spring by 2". Note: that doesn't necessarily mean the spring can survive 2288 pounds! Pay attention to the load figure for the max. Exceeding the max usually won't break these heavy springs, but if you really overdo it they might not return to their original length.
If it's a non-linear spring, by way of example you might see more compression at lower loads, (a softer/spongier ride) followed by substantially increasing stiffness, such as 1.5" at 1144 pounds then 2.0" at 2288 pounds. This sort of response to loading can be plotted out as a primitive curve with the several data points.
When I used to do calibration of physical test equipment in Engineering labs, the asphalt plants were typically required to have a massive test spring to use as a sanity check for the integrity of their test machines if they measured "unique results" on any asphalt samples used in public roads. It was eye-opening just how little corrosion it took on a spring to really mess up its performance. Barely even enough to be visible. Even with epoxy paint on them, they were typically stored in wood boxes with oiled rags. Epoxy paint or powder coating are your friends at keeping your springs happy and healthy! I'm pretty sure Moog powder coats theirs as a matter of course.
-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts... Are you living to work, or working to live? Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! | | | Re: 78 Tradesman 200 work/camper van build | Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 veteran | veteran Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 | If My Moog7272's were powder coated, it is the worst powder coating that ever powdered any coat in the history of powdered coats.
Mine were all banged up in the shipping box as they had absolutly no protection from each other in that box. P prepped and then painted up the banged up area with Black appliance epoxy.
The leading edges of my 5/6/7? year old Moog springs are all rusty, as if I were driving 100 miles an hour on the beach chasing a fleet of vehicles doing the same speed for a couple hundred miles.
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