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re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling #731890
January 17th 2018 3:51 pm
January 17th 2018 3:51 pm
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 115
San Diego, CA
Scrojira Offline OP
member
Scrojira  Offline OP
member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 115
San Diego, CA
Hey all, the PO of my '78 Chevy shorty apparently used ceiling materials that were way to heavy and upon removing them I found my center support rib has separated from the roof and the one closest to the front is on its way. It was originally stuck together with some sort of foam with adhesive on both sides that has long since dried out. What type of adhesive would be best for gluing it back together? Neither the beam or ceiling is damaged in any way, it just needs some re-sticking.

I'm thinking of using Surebond Metal Bond but am curious to know if anyone has any better suggestions. Thanks in advance!

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Scrojira; January 17th 2018 6:29 pm.
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #731893
January 17th 2018 4:47 pm
January 17th 2018 4:47 pm
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,354
Van Diego California
frscke1 Offline
frscke1  Offline

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,354
Van Diego California
Welcome to the site Scrojira ...

Havent run into that yet ...


SUNSHINE VANS-VAN DIEGO
ADRENALIN BY THE GALLON & CHASIN RACIN
ONE FOR THE DIRT & ONE FOR THE STREETS
'93 CHEVY G30 454 4X4 SPORTVAN EXT 146" WB
'92 CHEVY G30 454 BEAUVILLE EXT 146" WB
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #731894
January 17th 2018 4:50 pm
January 17th 2018 4:50 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,620
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,620
Fircrest, WA
I believe Ram4Ever has some experience with this and found a good product made by 3M to resecure the roof ribs to the roof skin. Unfortunately, I don't recall what that product was. Maybe he will chime in, or maybe you could try sending him a PM.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #732987
February 12th 2018 10:25 am
February 12th 2018 10:25 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
tuner4life Online content
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tuner4life  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
I was just about to post this exact thread for my 1985 G20! Also looking for a suitable solution for this. I do plan on hanging some things from my ceiling and would like for the structure not to fail again.

Not to mention there is so much resonance on the highway with that roof panel flapping around.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]
1985 Chevy G20 305ci/4spd Manual
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #732990
February 12th 2018 12:51 pm
February 12th 2018 12:51 pm
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 258
Virginia
L
Lettercraft Offline
enthusiast
Lettercraft  Offline
enthusiast
L
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 258
Virginia
Search Topper tape. This is foam tape with adhesive for Camper tops on pick ups.
Made to seal and quiet the seam in all weather conditions.

Also, a bead of silicone after. Silicone has come a long way in 40 years.
I seal all of my outdoor signs with it. lasts for 20 years.

Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Lettercraft] #733090
February 15th 2018 3:04 pm
February 15th 2018 3:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 115
San Diego, CA
Scrojira Offline OP
member
Scrojira  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 115
San Diego, CA
I've seen topper tape, truck camper tape, etc. but everything I'm finding either too thin, only sticky on one side or not sticky enough for a long-lasting solution. I need something pretty thick that will be strong enough to stick the support back to the roof like it was from the factory.

Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #733116
February 16th 2018 9:15 am
February 16th 2018 9:15 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
tuner4life Online content
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tuner4life  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
The only thing I can find that seems promising is a true "Panel-Bond" glue, but they all say that the surfaces must be bare metal and that is going to be nearly impossible in this position. It almost needs to be an expanding foam of some sort, but I'm not sure where to start there.


[Linked Image]
1985 Chevy G20 305ci/4spd Manual
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: tuner4life] #733118
February 16th 2018 10:59 am
February 16th 2018 10:59 am
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 920
West Texas
W
Wedgy Offline
old hand
Wedgy  Offline
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W
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 920
West Texas
Hi Jason,

Hmm, interesting development. How about a thick epoxy type adhesive like J B quickweld, with a ShoeGoo chaser around the edges? Prop it up tight against the skin.
Some Plumbers adrasive strap for cleaning/soldering copper pipe would fIt between the rib and lid, I'd think, for paint removal. Sure makes the copper tubing shiny! But clean out all that crap first. Lol.

Looking good! More progress!!!

Happy Friday and Good Wrenching!

Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #733370
February 22nd 2018 5:16 pm
February 22nd 2018 5:16 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,343
Dundee, Michigan
Ram4ever Online content
pooh-bah
Ram4ever  Online Content
pooh-bah
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,343
Dundee, Michigan
A bit late to the dance here, but what I used were several 3M one and two-part products on my ceiling bows, strainers, pillars, and hood.

There are two two-part foams; the 3M #08463 is dark gray and somewhat flexible, and is closest to the material in your picture. Here's a closeup of some I dropped:

[Linked Image]

It is specified for precisely that sort of panel to panel and panel to frame element damping. It is OEM approved for use in collision repairs.

The 3M #08458 pillar foam is yellowish and quite rigid. As it's name indicates, it's target is filling the void in door pillars.

They both are self curing, so they can be used to fill voids where there's no air. That's *very* different behavior than the inexpensive canned foam sealant you get at home improvement stores, which will remain fluid indefinitely without air and specifically moisture to cure it.

They also both cure as closed cell foams, providing the skin on them remains intact. However, if you puncture or sand down the skin, they can absorb moisture, so it's best to apply carefully then leave these alone post cure! They are both paintable.

These foams do expand appreciably during curing, though glacially slowly compared to canned hardware store foams, so apply with expansion in mind, and allow for air and any excess foam to exit any cavities. If you don't, you could experience bulging of panels over the foam filled cavities as pressure builds! I saw anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times increase in volume, depending on application temperature. You can always go back and apply more if necessary; these will stick to cured foam, so layering is perfectly fine and is encouraged.


In areas where resonance was a substantial factor I used the 3M #4274 NVH ("noise, vibration, harshness") compound, which is a mass-loaded dark violet medium flexibility material, reminiscent of a fully cured dark colored RTV in appearance.

[Linked Image]

The dual plunger applicator gun is a 3M #08571. They could be had for under $50 when I purchased mine

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

-Yep, I also used it along the wheel arches, to help quiet down the walls. Even with all the strainers and damping, they needed a bit more effort.


It may be worth checking to see if the spot welds around the center of the ceiling bows are still intact if you're experiencing obnoxious amounts of resonance. Filling the gaps with any of these compounds will go a long way towards fixing, or even improving upon it, but is a seriously expensive option; the 3M products require an applicator gun, run around $40 per tube, and I used several dozen tubes in my maxi van.

The hood required clobbering power:

[Linked Image]

That being said, a large part of why I used so much is that I added 6 more bows and a similar number of strainers. smile

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

-There simply weren't enough original bows and strainers to quiet down that big ceiling and the sail-like walls; they only used enough to minimally support the structure. There's no substitute for a sound structure; I'd recommend performing structural upgrades long before wading into the world of CLD damping pads. Those lightweight bows and strainers do far more good than the heavy and costly CLD pads.

Peculiarly, and somewhat perversely, the region above the driver and passenger seats was especially ghastly; I had to call in a tactical nuclear strike on that area:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Now I can hear myself think...

I filled the additional bows with foam before even installing them:

[Linked Image]


Was it all worth it? See for yourself in these before and after examples of wideband spectral curves I collected from several of the wall panels:

Before
[Linked Image]
After
[Linked Image]

Before
[Linked Image]
After
[Linked Image]


And a couple of ceiling panels:

Before
[Linked Image]
After
[Linked Image]

Before
[Linked Image]
After
[Linked Image]


That's a lot of decibels of noise energy...

I hope that provides you with some additional ideas!

Last edited by Ram4ever; February 22nd 2018 5:37 pm.

-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van


[Linked Image]

It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts...

Are you living to work, or working to live?

[Linked Image]

Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! [Linked Image]
Re: re-attaching ceiling support to ceiling [Re: Scrojira] #733386
February 23rd 2018 10:23 am
February 23rd 2018 10:23 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
tuner4life Online content
addict
tuner4life  Online Content
addict
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 672
Indiana
Holy crap!! What a quality post!! Thank you! (Although I did think your first picture was something else at first lol)

I think that I'll do a bit more research on the 3M foam stuff to quiet down my existing bows. I already have the gun from doing the seam sealer, so that's nice lol.

And I hadn't thought about adding more bows, but that's a pretty good idea too since i will probably be hanging some stuff from the ceiling and the extra support would definitely help.


[Linked Image]
1985 Chevy G20 305ci/4spd Manual
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