Vannin' Home Forums Dodge General Discussion B-van survey

Rack & pinion for Dodge B-vans would be awesome I was think about it too.

I never said I did. I started this discussion by saying that I am really not interested, mainly because I don't see the point.



You didn't. Weight reduction and fewer parts are the reasons I usually see given for doing a rack and pinion swap.



No, I can't, but I really wouldn't want to rip out the stock suspension for some unproven aftermarket system that anyone has yet to describe to me the benefits of, either.



Yes, you did, when you went off about $10,000 paint jobs and waterbeds. Although I suppose people with enough money and desire could do a $10,000 paint job and a waterbed in a daily driver. I wouldn't do that, either.



Not in so many words, but it was "inferred." Go look it up.



See? Inferring I am stupid.

I have driven vehicles with rack and pinion and I have driven vehicles without. I prefer non-rack and pinion. Preference. Opinion. What you asked for, right? I am not impressed by rack and pinion enough to seek to adapt it to a vehicle not built with it.



WHY? That is what I am saying. You keep saying I am wrong and don't know what I am talking about, yet you don't tell me WHY I am wrong. Please explain yourself. Convince me I am wrong. Or do you just want to take my money and assure me it will be better if I do it?



Yeah, it IS subjective. This is what I am talking about, and what I thought you were asking for- my SUBJECTIVE opinion. You disagree with my opinion, which is what you asked for, yet you say nothing to refute it. So until I hear something to convince me the cost and effort is worth it, I am not interest. Defend your position for crying out loud.



Such as? I swear, I feel like I am talking to myself here. I am talking about technical, measurable, actual benefits. Reduced turning radius? Improved braking? Improved tracking in a side wind? Anything more than baseless assertions it will "feel" better? Any measurable and repeatable quantification of why the "improved feel" is worth the money and effort it would take to install it?



(1) not to repeat myself, but there you go calling me stupid again, (2) actually, it IS your problem since you are the one trying to convince me and other to buy into this magical ack and pinion conversion. Why should I? Because you say so? Please, tell me why I should?



No, it's called historical fact. You seem reluctant to deal in facts, just insults, innuendo, assumptions, and baseless assertions. In the 1600s most wagons had no suspension, leather straps suspension is you were lucky, and the privileged few actually had rudimentary leaf springs. Look it up.



Again with the insults. Finally! You cite some information to back up your position. But it is an article in one of those former glossy mags that gives positive reviews to whatever manufacturer sends them parts to "review." I generally ignore those magazines and websites since they exist to market paid advertising. They lose advertisers if they give negative reviews. And here, again, is why I brought up rally driving a van. If you are bulding a vehicle to have absolute maximum handling in competition, yeah, it might be worth it to swap to rack and pinion. But for people who use a van as a daily driver and don't race it, why is the conversion worth it? Sure, you can bench race and brag to your friends that you put in rakc and pinion, but driving to work and back or cruising on the highway the difference in responsiveness and handling between a stock B van steering linkage and a rack and pinion system will be negligible if it is noticed at all. Keep in mind we are talking about a big, heavy, unaerodynamic brick, not a sports coupé.

Again, why should I spend the money and effort to convert a daily driver van to rack and pinion? A van is too heavy and unaerodynamic to make executing fast "s" turns anything more than a pipe dream. Maybe if you are building a custom lowered van to do road racing and it is a hollowed shell with custom springs and suspension, or maybe if you are someone who has money burning a hole in their pockets and wants to do it to be "cool", go for it.

YOU asked for people's "enthusiasm" about this project. So, I gave you mine and asked you questions about why I should change my opinion. You responded with insults and a failure to explain why it is worth my time and money to purchase this system and install it on my daily driver van. I am happy to hear legitimate reasons why it is a good idea other than "it is and if you don't think so you are wrong."

It sounds like you only want to hear from people who agree with you. Good luck.

Previous post pretty much sums it up for me as well. Sorry to disappoint but I have no "enthusiasm" for it.

Thanks for bringing it up here Hasan; much appreciated. Your enthusiasm for Dodge vans is truly remarkable!

It's fascinating that the possibility of a professionally engineered drop in modern replacement steering component might be made available. Few companies ever seem to see the merits of catering to the vintage non-sports vehicle market. We've even had an awful time with known consumables like the cargo door seals!

With so few options available to us, the companies like Redhead who rebuild and blueprint gearboxes have been pretty much our only option short of do-it-yourself engineering, but a front suspension is not an area where very much home brew engineering is apt to end well!

I can't say whether I would consider jumping right into such a conversion for my own van or not. I have always been a fan of very powerful, positive steering though, so I might just be a candidate.

I've been consider sending my gearbox (which is seeping at the bottom seal) to Redhead to have their police interceptor level service performed on it.

I suppose that if my gearbox failed, and the cost was competitive, or at least not exorbitant, I might jump. My general course when selecting major replacement components has been to look towards continued national availability (Vanners do tend to take long, extended trips to Van events) and eternal support for high wear parts such as seals, tie rod ends and boots, etc.,.

A product from a large enough company to offer support would be a major plus, especially if they offered a kit with heavier duty, higher quality tie rod ends than what the bulk of aftermarket tie rod ends currently amount to.

I'd like to point out that were a company to delve into this, there is a long term headache for those of us who in particular have tilt steering wheels which might steer a lot more traffic towards a retrofit, and that is the steering pot coupler. It goes between the output shaft of the steering column and the input shaft of the steering gearbox. It acts as a misalignment coupler, and as a collapsible joint in case of severe front end impacts.

To reduce chest injuries to drivers from impact with the steering wheel during frontal collision, the non-tilt steering columns had a perforated metal crush sleeve along their base, while the tilt wheel columns had the steering pot coupler. They both also used several plastic shear capsules just inside the dashboard.

Dodge quit stocking these parts decades ago, and the flexible rubber boot which goes over their upper end of the coupler was really never even available as a replacement part; it was shipped as an integral part of the lower shaft of the steering column! Once that boot fails by cracking between its bellows, grit and water get inside the coupler, greatly accelerating it's failure.

The symptom of this issue is experienced as an ever widening slop of the steering wheel. On my 79 Dodge B100, which even though it lacked a tilt wheel, had a steering pot coupler anyway, the steering wheel could rotate an alarming nearly 3/4" prior to moving the gearbox input shaft, and it was purely due to lost motion in the coupler.

A number of Vanners have converted the coupler over to a non-collapsible universal joint. These certainly work, and provide quite positive steering, but they eliminate the safety feature of having the sliding internal joint. With higher than ever modern traffic speeds, and far more aggressive drivers than ever, I view the elimination of one of the very few safety features of these vans by installing a universal joint in its place, with considerable skepticism.

Unfortunately these couplers are pretty much universally deteriorating at the age of all vintage Dodge vans. If the proposed rack and pinion retrofit came with an engineered solution to the steering pot couplers and the poor quality aftermarket tie rod ends, and perhaps came with silicon tie rod boots rather than rubber ones, and if it were compatible with the existing Saginaw power steering pumps, I believe it would be far more appealing.

And since so much of the Dodge Ramcharger, the Dodge Little Red Truck, the Dodge Warlock, and the popular Dodge Dakota pickup truck suspension structure is identical with that found in Dodge Vans, a replacement unit might appeal to the owners of those vintage vehicles as well.

Please keep us up to date if this project gets off the ground, and thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Oh, and best wishes for Thanksgiving!

Ram4ever-Thanks

Just as a point of clarification, mopar did make a quick ratio box for cars. I had one in my 68 Barracuda. It was a bit alarming to drive at highway speeds. But I'm sure you're referring only to vans.

And as far as it goes I personally am not interested in rack and pinion. The stock box options out there are enough to cover any of my needs.

I will add this however, one concern I always is maintenance accessibility underneath. If they are looking at a rack and pinion setup keep in mind maintenance. In Japan I've read that they do race Dodge vans. Kinda crazy, but also kinda cool.