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B-van survey #729944
November 20th 2017 7:48 pm
November 20th 2017 7:48 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
H
Hasan Ben Sobar Offline OP
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Offline OP
enthusiast
H
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
I ran into a guy from Flaming River at Good Guys last weekend. He says he's going to bring up the idea of a rack & pinion for Dodge B-vans to the engineers as there is no good aftermarket box for them available for them.

So I'm gauging "enthusiasm" for it.


Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729946
November 20th 2017 11:20 pm
November 20th 2017 11:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
In my part, little to no interest. Redhead gears and firm feel can rebuild your stock box however you want. The b van steering box actually interchanges with a large number of Mopar cars and trucks. I have no problem with the rest of the front steering or suspension on b vans. A rack and pinion swap sounds to me like an expensive and involved operation offering little, if any, real advantage over stock parts.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: B-van survey [Re: Reed] #729951
November 20th 2017 11:44 pm
November 20th 2017 11:44 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
H
Hasan Ben Sobar Offline OP
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Offline OP
enthusiast
H
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
Originally Posted by Reed
In my part, little to no interest. Redhead gears and firm feel can rebuild your stock box however you want. The b van steering box actually interchanges with a large number of Mopar cars and trucks. I have no problem with the rest of the front steering or suspension on b vans. A rack and pinion swap sounds to me like an expensive and involved operation offering little, if any, real advantage over stock parts.

MOPAR never made a "quick" box like the Buick GN or Monte Carlo SS for ANY vehicle ever. No amount of rebuilding changes the turn ratio. MOPAR's are 16 to 1 if memory serves.
A Buick GN type box or rack in any of your vans would transcend the handling of any current van.


Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729952
November 21st 2017 1:19 am
November 21st 2017 1:19 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Actually, there were diffrent ratio steering boxes from the factory, manual and power, and Redhead Gears and Firm Feel can build you a custom ratio gear box. At least they could the last time I looked into this about five years ago. I still don't think a rack and pinion conversion is worth it. I mean, who rally races a van, anyway?

Last edited by Reed; November 21st 2017 1:23 am.

Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: B-van survey [Re: Reed] #729957
November 21st 2017 9:32 am
November 21st 2017 9:32 am
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
H
Hasan Ben Sobar Offline OP
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Offline OP
enthusiast
H
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
Originally Posted by Reed
Actually, there were diffrent ratio steering boxes from the factory, manual and power, and Redhead Gears and Firm Feel can build you a custom ratio gear box. At least they could the last time I looked into this about five years ago. I still don't think a rack and pinion conversion is worth it. I mean, who rally races a van, anyway?

There was only ONE ratio in MOPAR steering boxes.. They never, repeat NEVER made a "quick ratio box".( And Redhead offers only one box for B-vans)
And why do you think "rallye racing" is the only reason to convert to R&P?

Last edited by Hasan Ben Sobar; November 21st 2017 9:43 am.

Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729960
November 21st 2017 12:14 pm
November 21st 2017 12:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
OK, I admit I could be wrong about the gear ratio, but I still NO reason to go through the expense and hassle of switching to rack and pinion. What's the point? The stock suspension and steering linkage is fine. A van just isn't able to be used in situations where a fast steering ratio or rack and pinion steering might be an advantage (if it even is). Maybe upgrade the tie-rod sleeves to the C body size and get a "firm-feel" gearbox for more "road feel," but I just don't see a worthwhile return on investment to ripping out the stock steering system and installing an aftermaket one.

Can you state the reasons why switching to a rack and pinion steering system woudl be advantageous and a justifiable expense and endeavor?


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: B-van survey [Re: Reed] #729961
November 21st 2017 12:47 pm
November 21st 2017 12:47 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
H
Hasan Ben Sobar Offline OP
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Offline OP
enthusiast
H
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
Originally Posted by Reed
1) OK, I admit I could be wrong about the gear ratio, but I still NO reason to go through the expense and hassle of switching to rack and pinion. 2)What's the point? 3)The stock suspension and steering linkage is fine. 4) A van just isn't able to be used in situations where a fast steering ratio or rack and pinion steering might be an advantage (if it even is). 5)Maybe upgrade the tie-rod sleeves to the C body size and get a "firm-feel" gearbox for more "road feel," 6)but I just don't see a worthwhile return on investment to ripping out the stock steering system and installing an aftermaket one.

6)Can you state the reasons why switching to a rack and pinion steering system woudl be advantageous and a justifiable expense and endeavor?


1 &2) Bringing the van suspension from the 17th century to the 21st.
3) They are not even in the same zip code as "fine".
4) So vans aren't used as daily transportation?
5) Nothing more than a suspension "hand-job".
6) The return is making the van more responsive and thus more fun to drive. Justify 10K in paint/artwork. Justify waterbeds. Justify 2000+ dollars in exhaust. You've never driven a "before & after vehicle", so you're "speaking out of school".

Rack & pinion is superior to recirculating ball steering in every single category.


Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729967
November 21st 2017 4:25 pm
November 21st 2017 4:25 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,514
Fircrest, WA
Again, in the manner in which 99% of vans are driven, I.E. cruisers or campers, is changing to rack an ppinion worth the cost and effort? The reduction in weight is pointless on a van, for stop and go driving, parking lot maneuvering, and highway cruising the factory parts work just fine. If you want to do it just for something to customize your van with, fine. But for those of us not building a custom show van, what are the real advantages to rack and pinion that make it worth the cost and effort? Paint and interior work is MUCH easier than installing a completely non-stock steering system, and are much more immediately beneficial.

So other than insulting me and calling me ignorant and stupid, you still haven't provided an explanation of why it would be worth it to convert a B van to rack and pinion steering. And yes, I have driven and worked on many cars equipped with rack and pinion steering. I do not consider it "better" in any way, and actually prefer the older non-rack and pinion style steering for maintenance and driving. I have plenty of fun with my van without dropping several thousand dollars on an upgrade that offers negligible technical benefits.

And wagons didn't use coil springs or steering gearboxes in the 1600s.

Last edited by Reed; November 21st 2017 4:26 pm.

Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729972
November 21st 2017 5:54 pm
November 21st 2017 5:54 pm
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
H
Hasan Ben Sobar Offline OP
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Offline OP
enthusiast
H
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 296
Tucson,Az.
Sigh........

Do you drive 99% of the vans? No. So how do you speak for them?
Where did I mention weight reduction? Weight reduction on a van is point-less.

Paint is easier? You can paint your van in your driveway? Really?

Who said anything about a show van? I didn't.

I didn't call you stupid-I said you're speaking out of school. Go look it up.

And no, you haven't driven a van(or any other vehicle) before AND after a rack conversion or you wouldn't be spouting this mindless drivel.

so you don't consider it better. Well, you're wrong.

Worth the cost? really? talk about subjective. There is no difference in maintenance-it's just different.

You are correct in one thing-rack doesn't offer any technical benefits-it offer ACTUAL benefits. Just because your limited experience and imagination prevent you from "seeing them", is not my problem.

And with regards to this: "And wagons didn't use coil springs or steering gearboxes in the 1600s."

It's called poetic license?

And finally:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0705-rack-and-pinion-steering/

I eagerly await you next vapid response.


Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
Re: B-van survey [Re: Hasan Ben Sobar] #729973
November 21st 2017 6:21 pm
November 21st 2017 6:21 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 394
Edmonton Alberta Canada
C
crazyvanman Offline
enthusiast
crazyvanman  Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 394
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Originally Posted by Hasan Ben Sobar
I ran into a guy from Flaming River at Good Guys last weekend. He says he's going to bring up the idea of a rack & pinion for Dodge B-vans to the engineers as there is no good aftermarket box for them available for them.

So I'm gauging "enthusiasm" for it.

Rack & pinion for Dodge B-vans would be awesome I was think about it too.


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