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#728730 - October 10th 2017 1:28 am Van cranks but won't turn over  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2
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stranger
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stranger

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2
Los Angeles, CA
Hi All

I've got a 79 Trans Van (the B300 I believe), and it just recently started giving me fits. It'll crank and crank and crank until it starts to sounds sluggish, but never turn over. I got some of that carburetor spray, gave it a little blast, and it fired up for a second and died out.

I'm thinking it's the fuel pump, but I'm wondering if anyone has experienced something similar before I go replacing parts.

#728736 - October 10th 2017 2:03 am Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,578
frscke1 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,578
Van Diego California
Welcome to the site Show ....

The dodge boys will be along shortly.

Again welcome..


SUNSHINE VANS-VAN DIEGO
ADRENALIN BY THE GALLON & CHASIN RACIN
ONE FOR THE DIRT & ONE FOR THE STREETS
'93 CHEVY G30 454 4X4 SPORTVAN EXT 146" WB
'92 CHEVY G30 454 BEAUVILLE EXT 146" WB
#728743 - October 10th 2017 11:33 am Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,325
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,325
Fircrest, WA
Hello and welcome. First, some terminology. "Crank" and "turn over," when used to describe engine behavior, mean the same thing. Both terms mean the starter motor engages and the crankshaft spins. What you are describing sounds like the motor never "fires" or "catches" and starts to run on its own.

If it fired and ran when you put something down the carb, then your problem is likely fuel related. Try filling the float bowl on the carb with gasoline or carb cleaner sprayed down the bowl vent tube. The motor should run on the fluid in the float bowl ong enough for the fuel pump to suck gas from the tank and fill the float bowl, allowing the engine to run on its own. If your motor runs for a bit and then dies, you have a problem in the fuel system somewhere. Could be the pump, could be a clog in the tank or line.

Try running it by filling the float bowl and report back what happens.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
#728761 - October 10th 2017 11:35 pm Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Turnkey Offline
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Turnkey  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Ann Abor Michigan
Check for spark as well as for fuel supply to the carberator. The two have to be in order to start up. Fuel supply, and ignition spark. Beware of plugged up fuel filters as well before you change out the fuel pump, this is VERY COMMON on an older vehicle, especially so for one thats been sitting or driven on a near empty tank. Better known as dragging the bottom of the tank, it can plug up an old fuel filter on an old vehicle in a heartbeat. Either a no spark situation or no fuel situation can knock it out and stop it from starting.
Pull a spark plug out and ground it to metal on the engine somewhere after putting the plug wire back on, and then bump the starter. It may require a helper to do this. If you don't see any spark, somethings amiss in the ignition circuit. you should see a bright blue spark. If not, then start with a look under the distributor cap. Check the rotor and cap contacts for pitting and burning and wear. If they're old they can get to a point where they just give up and wont create enough spark. If you have a points distributor, check the point gap. It may not have points but an electrinic ignition with a reluctor setup. You'll need a non magnetic brass feeler guage to do this properly on a vehicle with a ruluctor setup in place of points. I believe 74 on up they have a ruluctor electronic ignition in Chrysler products, but I may be wrong on the year. It is very rare for the reluctor gap to go out of specs once set, but it happens. If the cap and rotor look well enough and the point gap and contacts on the points arent burned or pitted, or in the case of a reluctor setup, the gap is up to specs, then put the rotor and cap back on and proceed to the ignition coil. Be shure the center coil wire is plugged in tight at both ends. Check the connections at the coil, they should be clean and tight.
Now there is a way to check the coil itself, but Ill leave that to someine else to advise you on. Its rare that they die and go out, but it does happen, and when they do, they usually completely stop working, and it would for sure create a no start situation.
So again in a nutshell, check for fuel to the carb, and then check for spark. Also be aware that a plugged up fuel filter in an older vehicle that had been sitting is highly likely, especially if you drove it on a near empty tank. It may be an inline filter, there may be one under the van in back by the gas tank, and it could have one at the carberator where the line goes into the carb. If it has a carborator fuel filter, it takes two line wrenches to work on it to fit the two line nuts on the fitting. There is a spring in back of the thimble sized filter on some of them with this type of filter, be carefull not to lose it when you take the line off and note the direction the filter went in, they have a directional flow on some of them. Don't try to clean a fuel filter, its a waste of time, replace it.
If it were mine, Id change out all the basic ignition items right now and eliminate that concern. That means new cap, new rotor, new points if it has points, new spark plugs, and new wires last, then go for all the fuel filters. If it still wont start and it is getting fuelto the carb, it could be the ignition module or the coil pack, or even the ignition switch itself. Hope this helps. Ill check back later if you have any questions.

Last edited by Turnkey; October 10th 2017 11:36 pm.
#728762 - October 10th 2017 11:50 pm Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 214
Hasan Ben Sobar Online content
enthusiast
Hasan Ben Sobar  Online Content
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 214
Tucson,Az.
Show- the last thing you should do is change a bunch of parts now. Research trouble shooting methods, find & fix the issue and then up-grade what you wish. Throwing a bunch of parts at a particular issue hoping one will fix the problem is not only the wrong way to do it, it gets damn expensive.


Tucson-it's a dry heat...like an oven
#728771 - October 11th 2017 11:25 am Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Turnkey Offline
newbie
Turnkey  Offline
newbie

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Ann Abor Michigan
"THE LAST THING YOU SHOULD DO" huh. Ya know Im new here and I can leave this forumn a hell of lot quicker than the time it took me to try and be helpfull. At 61 Im not gonna get in a pissing match. I do believe I said "if it were mine" because Im not a cheapskate and do know better. ALL the steps I said to do should be done and those parts inspected. If youre working on something like this Im gonna take the liberty in thinking you know enough to know what shot to hell spark plug and a pitted cap and rotor look like. And I wouldnt exactly call looking into the fundamental and very required basics like tune up items if it needs these parts after checking them quote "throwing a bunch of parts at it". If its an older vehicle and is "giving him fits" it probably needs everything mentioned, furthermore read what I said again. Those are all very typical and basic steps to take and things any mechanic even half way worth his salt would look into and do right away. I just saved him " doing a bunch of research" buster. I said to check them first, but you know what, you know all about it right, so lll just put my certifications and fifty years of experience away and let this guy abive handle it for you, he has all the answers, right.
If you cant afford a new cap and rotor and set of plugs and points and new wires and a fuel filter if you evaluate them and discover it needs them on a vehicle this old and you still think youre gonna make it run right then brother, youre just taking a leak in the wind. And again I saif "if it were mine" because I DO know better. in a situation like this those are the steps you do first. Spark and fuel are what this is about.
Im outta here, Im not doing this and I sure as hell dont need this at this age for trying to help out. I dont care much for third party rudeness from someone who skim reads then looks for something to jump all over someone like you just did buddy, especially so when Ive taken my time to try and be helpful. And its REAL CLEAR to me, you dont know your backside from first base, because what I said to do is EXACTLY what any good mechanic is going to do. I do know what the heck Im talking about, and I also know when Im done, and with that being said, I am, and Im outta here and done with this place. I loath rudeness, and that most certainly was, and coming from someone butting in who obviously doesnt know much . You boys have fun with your toys. Good luck.

Last edited by Turnkey; October 11th 2017 11:53 am.
#728780 - October 11th 2017 1:10 pm Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,578
frscke1 Offline
frscke1  Offline


Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,578
Van Diego California
Turnkey & Hasan Ben Sobar

STOP THIS INSULTING EACH OTHER ..... its not helping the OP fix his van.


SUNSHINE VANS-VAN DIEGO
ADRENALIN BY THE GALLON & CHASIN RACIN
ONE FOR THE DIRT & ONE FOR THE STREETS
'93 CHEVY G30 454 4X4 SPORTVAN EXT 146" WB
'92 CHEVY G30 454 BEAUVILLE EXT 146" WB
#728922 - October 14th 2017 12:22 am Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2
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stranger
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stranger

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2
Los Angeles, CA
First of all, thank you everyone for the input. I've got homework to do now.

Some background on the van, the prior owner started it up at least once a month before we got it, and used it a lot in the time they owned it. Since we got it last year, we've taken it on a bunch of long and short trips, and it ran fine as recently as the last month or two. So this kinda caught me off guard.

I only spritzed the carb helper before, I'll try filing it to see what it does next then go from there.

Again, thanks everyone.

#728923 - October 14th 2017 2:04 am Re: Van cranks but won't turn over [Re: Show]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,325
Reed Offline
Maniac
Reed  Offline
Maniac

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,325
Fircrest, WA
If the van sat for a long period of time before you tried to start it, several things could have happened.

(1) all the fuel in the carb float bowl evaporated. This can make the engine hard to start for several reasons. (a) there is no gas in the carb and possibly the fuel line. The mechanical fuel pump only pumps a small amount of fuel per revolution of the crankshaft and it can take a long time cranking to prie the pump and then fill the float bowl enough for the engine to run. (b) when the gas evaporated out of the float bowl, sediment that had been suspended in the gas in the bowl could have settled out and is clogging some of the internal passages.

(2) the diaphragm in the fuel pump dried out and cracked and is no longer pumping fuel

(3) sediment suspended in the gas in the fuel tank settled and clogged the fuel pickup.

Filling the float bowl with gas and trying to start the engine will test (a) if you have spark, (b) if the carb is in good condition other than having no fuel, (c) if the problem was the carb and fuel line being empty, and (d) if the fuel pump is bad or the fuel line is clogged. AGain, try filling the float bowl with gas by squirting it down the bowl vent tube and then try starting the engine. Report back what happens and we can help you troubleshoot from there.


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!

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