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| | | 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 addict | OP addict Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 | <I love my van(s), but it's been something every few weeks lately and I'm getting close to the end of my wit....>
DISCLAIMER: I have diligently read through the entire vanning.com history of posts on this subject.
ISSUE: When I let my van sit overnight in freezing temps (it was 3 degrees this morning), it will crank really well, but not fire. I thought it was a weak battery, and replaced that. I can manage to get it started after nearly draining the battery dead on 5-6 cranks. When it does fire, it chugs really bad and then eventually come to idle with no issue. If I turn it off, it will start right back up. What is maddening is that I'll let it sit for another 5 hours between getting to work and my lunch break, and it's still fridgid outside, and it fires right up! And will after work as well. It only gives me issues in the morning after sitting all night.
I didn't think much of it, but last year I did have a problem where I was backing up my snow covered driveway, shifted quickly to drive, and it stalled and would not start. Cranked great, but won't turn over. After cursing and leaving it for dead, I come back later and it starts right up.
From what I've seen from everyone, there are two potential culprits. 1) A failing ECU, or 2) A faulty fuel pump.
Am I wrong to believe that this can't be an ECU issue? If the ECU were intermittently failing, why would I only have starting issues in the morning, in freezing weather, but not later in the day in the same temps?
If the fuel pump is suspected, are there any tricks I can do to try to mitigate the issue or diagnose the pump? I don't understand why I can start it every single time even after 5-6 hours, but 10+ is a problem.
Could it be something else?
I replaced all spark plugs, cap, rotor, cleaned the IAC and carb, put in a new 02 sensor, etc all in the summer.
I have no scanner and with the custom dash I built, the CEL is gone so I can't tell if a code is thrown.
Imma bout to sell my 93 and stick with my 77. :-/
Chris (The Ravishing One) 1977 Dodge B200 Shorty V8-360 4.10 rear w/OD A518 tranny 1993 Dodge B250 Hi-Top V8-318 1994 Dodge B250 Lo-Top V8-318 (RIP 1998-2013)
| | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 veteran | veteran Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 | For fuel pump, try turning key on and off several times, leaving on a second or 3 each time, before cranking. Could just be the check valve not holding pressure and several key movements will allow it to build the proper PSI to get to the injectors. For the ECM, try the hairdryer trick. Warm it up and see if it fires quickly. If you have not yet used the Deoxit on the ECU connectors, do so. If it is the check valve, which is on the fuel pump module, you could add one on the external lines. https://www.amazon.com/Fuel-Line-Check-Valve-Lines/dp/B000YOVLBO | | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,463 Likes: 12 | Since you seem to be stressing the cold weather element as a contributing factor, by any chance are your fuel lines, gas tank, or fuel filter full of water which might be freezing into a slush which breaks up as you continue cranking? Water will sure bog down an engine!
Also don't forget your vented fuel tank cap; the vents may fail or freeze up and you end up drawing a vacuum in your fuel tank. Try loosening the cap next time it happens and see if that makes any difference.
Electrical and mechanical pumps are often checked by disconnecting the output fuel line, (and the ignition coil!) and routing the line into a container, then cranking for a specified period of time, then measuring the volume of fuel pumped. The correct time and volume will be listed in the FSM.
Mechanical pumps can also be checked by using a vacuum gauge attached to their input side. They pull a very substantial vacuum.
Last edited by Ram4ever; January 09th 2017 2:29 pm. Reason: more details
-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts... Are you living to work, or working to live? Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! | | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 93 journeyman | journeyman Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 93 | My 94 did this last year and it was the computer.I found it by bringing the computer inside overnight to keep it warm,reinstalled it in the morning and she fired right up.Another way to check is to see if the check engine light comes on when it wont start.If it doesn't leave the key in the on position for 2-10 minutes,if you here a ticking start up and then the check engine light comes on and the van starts then it is the computer for sure.
1994 Dodge-Tannenbaum 1976 Chevy-dragonheart 1965 Ford-Screamin Eagle 2
| | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 addict | OP addict Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 | Wrcsixeight - Thanks, I saw some of your replies about this subject on ancient posts. Have not tried the key trick before - will try that tomorrow morning. I also have a spare ECU from a parts van. I always can try that....
Ram4Ever - Thanks - my first reaction was something must be freezing up. But I wouldn't know how water could otherwise be getting into those elements? My van is pretty solid and no leaks. I don't experience poor engine performance under normal operating conditions that would indicate interference with fuel delivery. If water was present, wouldn't the van run pretty bad?
The vented fuel cap is something I had not thought of. I will try that as well if I still have the issue.
jamvnr61 - I made a complete custom dash and no longer have a check engine light, so I can't try your trick! :-o
Thanks guys. Your help is keeping me in my van. Chris (The Ravishing One) 1977 Dodge B200 Shorty V8-360 4.10 rear w/OD A518 tranny 1993 Dodge B250 Hi-Top V8-318 1994 Dodge B250 Lo-Top V8-318 (RIP 1998-2013)
| | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 addict | OP addict Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 663 | Today's results:
Cleaned ECU connections with Deoxit after work yesterday.
Tried the key trick Wrcsixeight recommended - but no dice. Van still wouldn't fire up and just cranked. Now, it only took me 5 minutes to get it started (about the norm), and once I did I had major combustion issues again and dark gray smoke for about 30 seconds and then van ran perfectly fine.
Temps tomorrow morning will be above 40 so I won't be able to check the hairdryer trick until the next freezing morning. Chris (The Ravishing One) 1977 Dodge B200 Shorty V8-360 4.10 rear w/OD A518 tranny 1993 Dodge B250 Hi-Top V8-318 1994 Dodge B250 Lo-Top V8-318 (RIP 1998-2013)
| | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 addict | addict Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 | Is it getting fuel and spark? Figure out which is missing. If missing fuel it can be because of one of several sensors or possibly primary fuel supple. If missing spark then why. If both spark and fuel and air but no go then timing issue. On a 93 with SMPI it can be a ECT sensor or a TP. If TP is wide open it's in clear flood mode. If the ECT is reporting false temps it will cause a no start. This ECT issue is especially true with TBI, but even with PFI the ECT is part of closed loop and warmup loop. | | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 addict | addict Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 | I have the diagnostics service manual for the engine. | | | Re: 93 Dodge cranks but won't start in freezing temps | Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 addict | addict Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 645 | Wrcsixeight - Thanks, I saw some of your replies about this subject on ancient posts. Have not tried the key trick before - will try that tomorrow morning. I also have a spare ECU from a parts van. I always can try that....
Ram4Ever - Thanks - my first reaction was something must be freezing up. But I wouldn't know how water could otherwise be getting into those elements? My van is pretty solid and no leaks. I don't experience poor engine performance under normal operating conditions that would indicate interference with fuel delivery. If water was present, wouldn't the van run pretty bad?
The vented fuel cap is something I had not thought of. I will try that as well if I still have the issue.
jamvnr61 - I made a complete custom dash and no longer have a check engine light, so I can't try your trick! :-o
Thanks guys. Your help is keeping me in my van. Find the MIL wire from the PCM and connect a bulb or VM to it and count pulses for codes. | | |
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