Vannin' Home Forums Van shows and Events Council of Councils Vannin.com reps representing as a council ?

When the Council of Councils was originally setup the internet did not exist. Clubs were plentiful and each council represented numerous clubs with hundreds of vanners.
Times have changed a lot and we have evolved.
This topic has been brought up before and now with the internet being an integral part of vanning it may be time to revisit the idea of vanning.com be considered a "council" representing online vanners who may otherwise not belong to a club or council.
This is not to undermine anything that is already established. It is just a formality as both Astro, myself and others have unofficially represented vanning.com at the CofC for many years now.

What do you think ?

as I have said, we don't meet the criteria to be a rep, but considering the nature of the beast, maybe it is time to make some changes to permit us an official spot in the meetings.

This would probably need more discussion, but is an interesting proposal.

I would really like to see vanning.com as an official part of the CoC, but not as a Council. Other Vanner websites would then also have to be considered as well. IE vandomain.com, astrosafari etc...

Most of the members of vanning.com are already members of the Councils in their own Geographic area , and if represented by two councils, effectively get two votes.

As to the set up of Councils, Members belong to Clubs, Clubs belong t the Councils. I am not sure how to transition that to the web sites, where the members are the website.

Would that not make the website more like a club ?

Don't mix church and state, why mix this?

I agree with both Doc and Ken, for numerous reasons that I won't go into.

What Ken said!

I guess I have to disagree.

Councils can be made up of van clubs or individuals. People can be members of multiple councils. Only the individual councils can make up the rules about who are their members.

We are part of HVC as members of our club Ramblin Vans but we also are part of the Wisconsin Van Council as an independent.

The purpose of Clubs or Councils is to bring to together people that have similar interests.

The purpose of the Council of Councils is bring the Councils together for promoting vanning. Where does it say what it takes to be a council?

In essence, vanning.com is a Council (probably has the largest number of members too) made up of both individual members and clubs. Why are they any different than any other Council?

They also do the probably the most promoting of vanning throughout the world.

while I don't think of us as a council, vanning.com is usually represented at the meeting, and we do discuss things, etc.

while Ken says don't mix church and government, that is kinda hard in this case, as we are already very mixed up in things, I personally have been trying to take an active part in the Nats board meetings, etc.

I see vanning.com as a tool, and the better informed I am and the more I know about how things work, the better I can use the tool.

should vanning.com be a voting entity at C of C? I don't think so.. but should we be recognized and able to chime in? I think so, only because something comes up every year it seems where i am asked to chime in as vanning.com

vanning.com is a virtual council I suppose, but I believe one of the requirements of C of C is that your council has to represent a specified geographic area... so what would that be? earth?

Good Points Dave!

I'm with Ken!

Good Call SuperBeast

Don't just vote, voice why you think it should be one way or the other :-)

I already belong to one!

Exactly what you said Dave. vanning.com is a tool. Maybe a group of reps from here to voice concerns, comments, issues, etc. But I think the variety of persons on the site would cause caos with a lit of things. If vanning.com were to get a voting position, how could one or a few people, be voted resposible for making a decision if not thoroghly discussed before voting? There are way too many people involved IMO. To do this at this point, with the way things are presently run.


For instace: at this C of C a vote will be taken for where the Nationals will be next year. If you and Doug are the only 2 reps from vanning.com at the C of C, then the whole vote is up to you. Would you want to be responsible for the voice of 4300 vanners on here to make that descision without a discussion?

I wouldn't!

I say keep it as a tool, for now!

CORRECTION!!!! At this year's C of C a vote will be taken as to where the Council of Councils will be next year. The C of C has NOTHING to do with where the Nationals are. It is simply a coincidence that we meet at the same time and accept bids for the following Nats. Just wanted to clear that up. There have been many years of confusion. The National Truck-In Board and the Council of Councils are two separate, independent, entities.

And, on the actual subject of this thread, I think that last years simulcast and Q and A session went extremely well, and enabled online vanners to be a part of everything. Looking forward to even better participation this year!

Well said Ken and I will add this also---
(and I am NOT trying to slam or berate anyone that visits or uses this site!)

vanning.com has many members and as Ken said that would make it a difficult responsibility to uphold. Also, some of the members here are not fully informed or involved in what we do as clubs/councils over a Vanning season and either would not be interested in what happens, or, as we have seen, not have a full understanding of the repercussions of a vote one way or another because of the lack of involvement of their Vanner activity in the world of eVANt attendance and hosting.
Council was started so that everyone could learn new ways to promote organized Vanning and to get the eVANt dates out so they didn't compete with each other so much.

Personally, I like that we have vanning.com to use as a tool and a discussion platform for different ideas and thoughts.
I do not think we should lose that option. I do think that Dave can do a lot of good, as he has, by using his tech smarts to help keep us informed and anyone can use this tool for information as long as they sign in!

So, I opened up the and I will accept that--
just don't kick me while I'm standing--I tip over really easy!

vanning.com is a great resource for all vanners to discuss a multitude of issues surrounding vanning. The voices here cover the spectrum. Old timers, newcomers, former vanners, in a club, not in a club, van owners, former van owners, enthusiasts, keyboard vanners... but who would you be representing? As it has been said; "vanning.com is a tool" this "tool" can be used by anyone, but I don't feel it represents any of us. If vanning.com was given a seat at council, where do we draw the new line? How many other sites would want a seat and how do we judge which should and shouldn't be seated?
I think the service you offer can be a great resource for information and, as a web site, should be our source of information about what goes on at CofC, rather than a participating council. Most of the people here that need representation have it through our clubs and councils and I feel this would just be a redundancy.
I am interested in what others have to say on the subject. I think it's worth discussing.

I think I should be able to speak on the concerns and issues people post here, but I don't think I should get a vote.

That would be my line of thought.

The access given to you & Virtual is surely a sign of how on target you've been in steering vanning.com.

Being able to carry a few common concerns or suggestions from the website membership to the COC is a wonderful acknowledgment of the value found in the contributions which vanning.com has made towards the COC's goal of the promotion and advancement of vanning.

Nevertheless, I don't think it's wise to treat a virtual community of only loosely confederated members, possessing arguably widely varied needs and motives, to the same rights and privileges as a physical community who has purposefully and carefully been assembled to achieve a common goal.

How you'll even settle on what items to select to advance in a formal setting is well beyond me. "The world" is indeed a rather large place containing a varied clientele, and many of the concerns and issues are inevitably going to be regional, if not downright personal. A "tyranny of the minority" and other such disruption is seldom far away when such impersonal entities as "The world" are given rights to the floor...

Perhaps a selection of polls like Virtual just conducted at the beginning of this thread could be used to help narrow things down, but the participation in his poll has been surprisingly lackluster thus far... and rather evenly split too! That sure makes for a tough call. If polls were used as input, should only those with a certain minimum percentage of participation or displaying a clear margin of consensus be counted?

Perhaps what should be advanced at COC is a simple request to schedule a formal debate at the *next* COC whose goal would be guidance on how virtual communities should be treated in the future. Rather than being rushed into making a decision *now*, the various councils would then have the time until the next COC to discuss the issue with their memberships and attempt to reach a consensus position to bring to the table.

OK, I'll go back to my corner now...

;0)

Thanks for everything you've done Astro & Virtual!

I believe there is a future thanks to you.

Some very good thoughts passing through here. Seeing the polls are so close we will take that as a topic that needs much more discussion.

The CofC is a mystery to many vanners as we can see from some of the comments as to what actually goes on or doesn't go on. As Howard suggested please watch the simulcast to get a better of this whole process.

Astro--I do like your thought that you can bring up topics that are discussed on this site at the C of C. Each year before C of C every Council is sent a letter requesting certain information--who is your rep going to be and what would your members like to see discussed at the meeting this year. Perhaps there is a way to include vanning.com into that process. That way, the topics would be listed and you wouldn't have to be a 'voting entity' at the meetings.

Just a thought.

I think everyone on vanning.com should already be in a council, that way you can get your opinions out, you dont have to a memeber of a club to be in a council (Wisconsin Van Council will take anyone that wants to be a member)

In my opinion those that do not attend any eVANts and only call themselves a vanner because they are one this website should not have a say in how Van eVANts are run or promoted. I say once you actually participate yourself you will want to join some type of council so that you can be included.

Astro and Virtual already have there opinions heard due to the fact that they are so involved, what more can be gained by having vanning.com be considered a council.

Anybody can attend the CoC and have themselves heard in the open afternoon session. If not able to attend, you can use a proxy to voice your concerns. Don't need to be in a council for this.

As long as the proxy is not used to bring forth a subject that may open a can of worms, and you want somebody else to do your dirty work for you, I see nothing wrong with the present system.

Like others have said, putting to bed all the misconceptions on how the National Truckin Board, and the Council Of Council Board is best accomplished on a Forum like this, so as to leave the limited time at the CoC for bringing forth well thought out, and pertinent discussion................

In the past, while being a rep for the OFV at the CoC, I had some Vanner's that basically wanted me to take their whining to the meeting..... So a rep, or a proxy, has to exercise some judgment on what to ask, and for who it will benefit. These Forums are great to weed out what is old dealt with stuff, and what is needed to be said for today, and the future.....

Sorry, I messed that up!!!

My main point was if something came up to be voted on, without having time to discuss with everyone on line, it could cause a lot of issues.

This site is THE place for these discussions. The time at the C of C meeting is way too short to have lengthy discussions. The C of C has a web site that anyone can go to and make suggestions for a topic at the next C of C.

Council of Council's http://cofc.vanning.com/
and
http://www.councilofcouncils.com and http://www.councilofcouncils.org

Middle of the page look for (Send us a suggestion for a topic at the next C of C meeting here.)


The Nationals Board web site also has a Guestbook which anyone
may write on with suggestions/gripes.
Nats Board Guestbook
http://www.vannationalsboard.org/guestbok.htm

Also the Nats Board Members and Alternates are listed with their Email address and Phone numbers on the website

Nationals Board Members http://www.vannationalsboard.org/natsmemb.htm

Anyone May Email or call them to discuss anything.

I think that vanning.com being included as input at Cof C is a good idea, however I agree that is should not be a voting position, more of an advisory "what the vibe you are getting from the web on this subject?" thing.
The members of vanning.com are too far flung and too diverse in their opinions to be represented in a voting position. we are also too infrequent visiting the boards to be well represented. In just over 24hr only 35 of the registered 4300 members have voted in this poll. Also when I look back over who posted on this thread, I see the same main names that I see on many threads. Are those 10 or 15 people with the most posts all that are to be represented? Its a real can o'worms, that Id rather keep closed.

I think for all those who have never attended the CoC, viewing the web cast that Astro is putting together, will enable you to get a " feel " for how things work there....

And it's a cheap way to get that feel, as the reps and attendee's at the meeting, by and large, fund their own travel and lodging expenses to and from these far flung meetings ...All you have to do is commit a few hours in front of the puter on the Saturday of the CoC..............

Just keep an eye for Astro's announced time schedules and any updates......

Thanks Billo--
I knew it was somewhere on here!
CRS is pretty bad today! hee hee

Huggs!

there is also a section here, https://www.vanning.com/threads/ubbthreads.php/forums/73/1/National_Truck_In_Board.html that is setup specifically for people to post questions to the Nats board.

just look at the meeting schedule on the C of C page. will be broadcasting all the meetings. thursday night, all day friday, and most of saturday.

I will post reminders ahead of time though.

Last year I monitored the input on the chat room during the broadcast of the meetings. I was able to bring questions to the floor, and get responses. I hope to be able to do something similar this year, but I will be involved in the van show, also. I will be posting pics on my facebook site and linking them for all of you here on a daily basis.

The C of C website will also post pictures daily

as howard pointed out in another thread... Reps don't vote on anything except where the next meeting will be... so the voting issue is null and void in this debate.

so what exactly is the function of the rep?
is it to bring your concerns to the meeting?
or the information gained at the meeting back to you?
in which case I think vanning.com should be an official entity at the meeting, and not just a bystander. but on that same note.. why does anyone need to be an official anything in that case? oh wait... goody bags :-)

I would love to read the charter for C of C, to see the definition of what it is supposed to be, what a rep is really all about. I mean.. seriously.. the more I think about it, what exactly do our reps do at cofc? it seems we get more topics out of the open forum than the closed one.

I'm not trying to trivialize the reps out there or anything.. this is just kind of me typing as I think.

no matter what happens, I will still attend all the meetings, I will stream the live feeds back to you via the magic of the net, and I will share any new information and developments that happen with everyone here, and I will continue to promote vanning in my way, advertising and promoting events, sharing information, etc.

You know Dave I agree with you. I honestly thought over the years that the CoC was the forum to bring up concerns and changes that should be looked upon for the betterment of the sport. If the only reason a rep votes is for the next site then I am missing the whole purpose for this other than as it has become more and more, a winter party. Now I know I will get slammed for that but...it will not be the first time.
As we all know the motorhome discussion is going on in the General forum. It has gone twenty different directions. The thought process from Bonehead was to bring this discussion to the CoC for some kind of decision on the matter. Well in a sense it can be discussed but a vote of the masses involved is not something that will happen so in a sense the whole thing becomes moot. So I guess reps would have to attend the Nats Board meeting to see if the topic can be brought to fruition with this board. Not sure what will actually happen in that either because I am not sure how that could be brought up for discussion unless you contact your Nats Board rep for your specific area. You will need to look on the Nats Board website for who is in your particular demographic. Correct me if I am wrong here Howard.
As far as vanning.com being/having a voice at the CoC I am for it. While not in the exactly in the same standing as a council rep, the ones who are there are representing a major media that is seen throughout the world. During the live webcast of the meetings it is a great deal since not everyone is able to attend.

The council members do on occasion vote on issues other than location.

Astro when you meet Geoff at Tom's this weekend way ahead of all the craziness, ask him what his thoughts are about this. Geoff is very easy to get along with and could suggest the best way to approach it. The three of us worked together on that first Virtual Nats going way back to 1997.

It's hard to explain all of this in a forum without going into each and every detail and bringing up some touchy situations from the past that lead me to want to get some say for vanning.com in the CofC meetings.

I know who Geoff is Doug, lol :-) I planned on talking to him about this stuff anyway.

ok. this was discussed, and voted on, and we are not a council, primarily based on the same reasons I said we shouldn't be one... most of you already belong to a council, and we don't represent a specific geographic area.

however.. I was offered (and I accepted) a seat on the councils board.

Another thing here that would be unfair, is the potential influence from foreign vanners. Should I, a vanner from Norway, have a say on how you should run your evants in America?? I'm not saying I would, but you can be sure that someone from another country would vote on a poll at some time... To me that just don't seem right...

Then we are done with this subject! Congrats to ya Dave.

Hammer, this forum is for everyone, everywhere, and the council of councils is an international event.
Feedback from everyone, no matter what country they are in is always welcome.

Congrats!

What exactly is that? Didn't know there was a Council Board

Ken,
go to http://cofc.vanning.com/

That is the council of councils web site

The council board is 5 vanners who oversee C of C meetings.

They run the cofc meeting, keep updated council mailing lists and facilitate the host councils to put on the event.

Like the Natz board, the CoC board looks after the CoC arrangements, Kathy from CA, Brian from oHIGHo, Gomer from Ill, Geoff from Ontario, and John from Florida were the Board members I dealt with for the Niagara Falls CoC

actually, the C of C board is now 4 members, Geoff, Kathy, John, and myself.

Kathy and John who? What is this council for?

read Billo's post above...

the council of councils board, the people that sit in front at the meeting and run the meeting.

our job is to set the agenda, make sure the meeting runs smoothly, take bids on the next meeting, etc.

and like Doc said, Kathy Willis from California, and John Cunningham from Florida

Cool!

Ah, were they the two that were up there in the video feed?

John, Kathy and Geoff were up there, John was on the other side of Geoff and hard to see.

Next year will be a challenge for me because I am supposed to sit up there as well, but have to run the webcam at the same time. I think I can do it, I just have to test a couple things with USB extensions cables. that would mean a static cam, wouldn't be able to pan it around and zoom in on people in the crowd.
stuff I need to think about I guess.

You can always have a volunteer assist you with that. I'd volunteer but if I do go, I think they have already volunteered me for something else. There's a conspiracy to keep me out of the meetings with the crazy ideas we come up with.

So far I'm planning on being there next year, so maybe I can help out.

With every movement there is a chronicler. Perhaps, a title as such should be adopted for Vannin because of its enduring connection to Vannin.