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auxiliary batteries #410327
September 09th 2010 9:27 am
September 09th 2010 9:27 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12
ohio
1
1phill Offline OP
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1phill  Offline OP
stranger
1
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12
ohio
id like to have 2 batteries for a rear sound system
that operate independently for the starting battery
anyone have info and/or advise on this precedure
thanks
phill

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Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #416382
October 09th 2010 2:16 pm
October 09th 2010 2:16 pm
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,864
Calgary Alberta. Canada
relaxedvanner Offline
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relaxedvanner  Offline
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Calgary Alberta. Canada
I know you would need an isolator and have the batteries in a sealed box vented to the outside to exhaust fumes while charging. You also require heavy gauge wire to do so . Hopefully someone with more knowledge will point you to in the right direction or a previous post that will explain more than i can.


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Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: relaxedvanner] #416416
October 09th 2010 10:30 pm
October 09th 2010 10:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,568
Wichita Falls, Texas
Starlord Offline
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Wichita Falls, Texas
One of the better ways is to use a manual Isolator. You can get them at a automotive stereo shop. It looks just like the old solenoids in cars except bigger. Has a hot wire in from battery, a ground wire, a remote go wire and a hot out to the batteries. Keeps the rear batteries from draining the main batteries and yet lets them charge when vehicle is running. You don't need to vent them if: A. You use Optima type batteries (I run two of the blue top marine style) or B. You get a couple of the dry cell from a automotive stereo shop. Make sure to run HEAVY duty fuses (such as the 150 amp type fuses you get at a stereo shop) at both points where you come off the battery and where the battery wire goes to the two auxilary batteries. I keep the Optimas under the rear couch/bed and that seems to work well. I used the automatic isolators like you can get at a rv shop or some auto parts stores and find that I like the manual one better (don't let the word manual through you, you don't have to do anything). Hope this helps you.


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Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: Starlord] #416418
October 09th 2010 11:57 pm
October 09th 2010 11:57 pm
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,669
San Diego
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wrcsixeight Offline
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San Diego
The easiest way to do it is by getting some AGM batteries. Optima's are AGM batteries. Optima batteries have very high cranking amps(CCA), and are very resistant to vibration, and pretty tolerant of abuse. But for their size they do not have much capacity(AH) amp hours. An AGM battery that is rectangular will yield just as much ( if not more)cranking amps but have 25 to 35% more capacity. All AGM batteries will have a higher cranking amp rating than any flooded battery of the same size. Generally flooded batteries will have about 5% more capacity than the AGM battery of the same size

Battery abuse is when you discharge them below 50% and do not recharge them fully or promptly. True deep cycle batteries are most tolerant of this abuse. The next most tolerant batteries are the dual purpose batteries. These will say marine/ trolling/ RV/ deep cycle on them. The least tolerant of abuse are starting batteries. These should not be discharged below 80% and will not last long if cycled deeply.

In you application I would recommend Odyssey batteries. Die Hard PLATINUM batteries are the same thing for 25% less $.

Now to isolate them, the easiest way is with a Continuous Duty Solenoid. They look like this:
[Linked Image]

Get one rated for at least 100 amps continuous. The 2 bigger bolts are for the battery Hot/Positive wires. One side goes to the engine battery, the other side goes to the auxilary batteries. The 2 smaller wires are for activating the solenoid. When these see 12 volts from a switched source, it connects the 2 bigger wires together, paralleling the batteries. Ideally you want to the switched source to be something that is hot only when the engine is running, rather than just the key turned to on or Accessory.

You can just hook the negative wires of the batteries together.

Now it should be said that everybody overestimates The alternator's ability to fully recharge a battery. A 130 amp alternator can only output that in a laboratory, when cold, at high rpm. On top of this, the vehicles stock wiring is only adequate to power the vehicles accessories, and recharge a slightly depleted starting battery.

So There are a couple things you can do, the last of which is a bigger better alternator.

First, the wiring between the solenoid and the auxiliary batteries is very important. It has to be at least 6 awg cable for okay charging. The thicker the better.

This wiring does little good if the Stock charging circuit is not upgraded as well. The easiest way to do this is to run another (fused) cable directly from the alternator(+) post to the Solenoid. You want to wire it to The side of the solenoid which connects to the engine battery.

Upgrading the hot wires is no good unless the ground wires are upgraded as well. The negative is shared by the whole chassis. The engine has a pretty thick ground cable from the battery.

What you can do is run a fat cable from the auxuiliary batteries to the alternator's (-) stud, or one of the bolts that attaches the alternator to the engine.

Once you have done the above steps, you are at the limit of the alternator's capability. The limiting factors at this stage are the voltage regulator, and the alternator itself, and any poor connections in any part the charging circuit.

If at higher RPM and the batteries are under 80% charged, and the voltage does not rise to the mid 14's. Your voltage regulator is not allowing the alternator to work as hard as it can. If the alternator is internally regulated, nothing you can do.

There are many other ways to have batteries isolated from the engine battery yet still charge when the engine is running.
IMO, this is the easiest, most effective, automatic way.

I myself use a true manual switch.

[Linked Image]

I have my batteries under the floor behind my driver's seat and the switch in the cabinet above them. I need 12 feet of cable (one way) to reach the engine battery. I need 11 feet of cable to reach the battery switch from the alternator.

When I added another 2 AWG cable from the alternator to the battery switch and another between battery and ground, my charging amps at higher RPM's increased about 120%.

My 130 amp alternator is only capable of 32 amps at idle speed, when hot.

If you want your batteries to last( for years), you must think of the alternator as only able to supplement what your stereo use. Even with an upgraded charging circuit/ system, 2 depleted batteries are going to require many hours of driving with engine rpms above 1800 to fully charge them.

Since this is not usually feasible, you should have a good 3 stage automatic battery charger, and plug it in when you get home. Have a convenient way to do this and you can get 5 years or more out of your batteries, and never have them let you down during an outing. If you don't, your looking at about 2 years.

Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #470896
May 31st 2011 12:15 pm
May 31st 2011 12:15 pm
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,720
Dresden, Maine
Astro Offline

Astro  Offline


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Posts: 3,720
Dresden, Maine
I recently installed a solenoid to isolate my batteries when the engine isn't running and it seems to work great.
the only thing I am going to change is currently it is connected to the ignition, and I am going to move it to a dedicated toggle switch.


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Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #471327
June 02nd 2011 4:43 am
June 02nd 2011 4:43 am
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,464
Maryville, TN
maples01 Offline
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maples01  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,464
Maryville, TN
Offered to tournament fishermen is a new state of the are deep cycle charger setup to hook up your alternator to charge the batteries, it cycles so they get no more than 5 minutes of the high amperage from the alt, keeping the plates from heating up, and allowing a few minutes to cool before re-engaging. I read about it in a fishing magazine, for tournament fishermen who'll not have access to a charger, even has a lead that plugs into the truck to charge as you're driving to the lake. It ain't cheap, it's about $300 to start, even offer them with extra banks to charge multiple batteries. Seems boaters trying to shed weight in their boats are opting for smaller, lighter batteries, and this is allowing them to keep the batteries going by charging them as they move around the lake using the engine. The article was by a boater, not dealer, he said even in the windiest conditions he's not had to leave the lake or change his fishing characteristics, as the trolling motor holds up on the well charged batteries.
No battery likes constant heavy amperage, that's why the vehicle alt has a regulator but there is a lot of demand on them, electronics in todays vehicles, multiple batteries could be hard to keep up with, without over feeding them, could be a good idea for me. Sure would answer the call for those who want deep cycle batteries but keep the weight down, go with smaller ones and allow the engine to take care of them.


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]



Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #472788
June 08th 2011 4:00 pm
June 08th 2011 4:00 pm
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 19
Upstate NY
K
Ken_Karnage Offline
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Ken_Karnage  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 19
Upstate NY
I'm in the process of setting up a similar system. I have two deep cycle gel batteries mounted under the van in a custom box. Is there a way to setup a "reverse inverter" so I can simply plug into shore power when I get home, or would It be best to do a permanent mounted charge and wire that for shore power? I'm looking for ease of use, and am still in the beginning stages of the build, so mounting anything at this point is not a big deal.

Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #472877
June 09th 2011 2:50 am
June 09th 2011 2:50 am
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,464
Maryville, TN
maples01 Offline
pooh-bah
maples01  Offline
pooh-bah
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,464
Maryville, TN
You'd need something like the campers have that charges the batteries and powers from the 110 source, I'm betting it's expensive.


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]



Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #472889
June 09th 2011 9:12 am
June 09th 2011 9:12 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,182
blountstown FL.
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River_Rat Offline
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River_Rat  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
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blountstown FL.
These semi tricks have two big brass studs mounted on the frame under the hood so you dont have to take the battery box off if you need to charge or jump it off. And they have nice black and red boots to cover them when not in use. Drag cars use them to. Just mount them under the van somewhere that you can get to them easy to hook your charger to. And would come in handy if you needed to jump your own van off or someone else


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Re: auxiliary batteries [Re: 1phill] #472890
June 09th 2011 9:15 am
June 09th 2011 9:15 am
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,669
San Diego
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wrcsixeight Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,669
San Diego
Ken, The product you seek is called a converter in the RV world. It is designed to power all the 12 volt appliances when plugged in as well as charge the batteries.

Progressive dynamics, Iota and Paramode are just 3 makers of converters.

A place called best converter sells them all and has good customer service.

Are your batteries really GEL batteries, or AGM? Gel batteries require specific chargers because they will be damaged by 1 overcharge. Generally alternator voltage is too high for gel batteries and that makes their use in vehicles impractical.

AGM batteries are another story, and you are good to go if these are what you own.

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