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Certified Judges #329516
September 28th 2009 9:07 am
September 28th 2009 9:07 am
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,528
Selinsgrove, PA USA
nautic1 Offline OP

Showoff of the week on Cardomain 11/26/07
nautic1  Offline OP

Showoff of the week on Cardomain 11/26/07
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,528
Selinsgrove, PA USA
Okay I am going to propose a question here regarding the certification of judges. As most know at the Nats and CoC there is a class on judging a van. I have attended several of these classes. And yes I am a certified judge. Have been for several years along with my wife Wendy. My question is this, Does attending one of these classes and taking a test qualify the person to walk out on the field and judge a nationals? For some this could very well be the first time they ever judged a show in their vanning career. I was talking with several others at a recent event and they seem to agree. One class and a card does not a judge make thee. I hold nothing against the Nats Board and Howard, Judith, Coop, Paul etc for putting on this class. It is very informative and well worth the hour or two that it takes to cover. Truthfully several days of this would not be enough. There is just too much and I am still learning and have been judging for 28 years. It is just not something to learn overnight or in a few hour course. I would like to hear others thoughts on this as well as the Nats board's. You can now throw the rims at me. I will try to duck.


Phil
'78 Dodge Van Nautique
Susquehanna Valley Vans, Inc.
Host of Spring Thaw
PennsylVANia Van Council, Inc.
Host of The Thaw
Host of Summerset
Certified Nats Judge
Member of Nats Board Support Staff.
Toopa Sinner Tribe
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2224899
Nautique

http://forums.coolridesonline.net/member.php?4172-nautic1

"Remember,If you ain't laughin',you ain't livin'"

[Linked Image]
Re: Certified Judges [Re: nautic1] #329519
September 28th 2009 9:15 am
September 28th 2009 9:15 am
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,055
Insane Asylum
Lordmodelbuilder Offline

LOST SOUL
Lordmodelbuilder  Offline

LOST SOUL
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,055
Insane Asylum
Hey Phil,
I took the judging seminar at the CofC in Vegas this year. I did pass it & have my certified van judge card. I would think this would mean that I could be a judge at the Nats.
It is just a piece of paper,but it does say I am certified. Although nobody is ever 100% qualified to judge anything, I am confident that I could judge anything van related. I do know what to look for when judging a show. Just my 2%,Brad

Re: Certified Judges [Re: Lordmodelbuilder] #329523
September 28th 2009 9:26 am
September 28th 2009 9:26 am
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,528
Selinsgrove, PA USA
nautic1 Offline OP

Showoff of the week on Cardomain 11/26/07
nautic1  Offline OP

Showoff of the week on Cardomain 11/26/07
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,528
Selinsgrove, PA USA
Basically what I am referring to is if someone who has never judged a van in any show. Really is not familiar with the details, etc. and is thrust into the biggest show they can possibly be put into. I have seen judges who you can drill into their heads no matter what that you do not score a van perfect in a category. As Howard has stated, you start in the middle. If the points spread is 0-30, start at 15 and go up or down depending on what you see and feel. A personal feelings need to go out the window. IE: "I hate Dodges but I am stuck doing these and Joe has a Dodge. I will show him. I will score him low because I can." I know, a radical thought but totally conceivable. To be honest with you I was asked to help judge an event last year with someone who never did it before. This person is a friend of mine but had never judged and was clueless in his own words. I walked him through what we were judging and left him go on a few by himself. Wanted him to fly on his own so to speak. He did ok. I know he took the class this year and I believe was certified. He was also judging vans at the Nats. Was he really ready for this step up or should he have had a few smaller venues under his belt? Just some questions I am pondering since all I seem to be doing lately is stare at walls. Yes I am taking my meds so do not ask.


Phil
'78 Dodge Van Nautique
Susquehanna Valley Vans, Inc.
Host of Spring Thaw
PennsylVANia Van Council, Inc.
Host of The Thaw
Host of Summerset
Certified Nats Judge
Member of Nats Board Support Staff.
Toopa Sinner Tribe
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2224899
Nautique

http://forums.coolridesonline.net/member.php?4172-nautic1

"Remember,If you ain't laughin',you ain't livin'"

[Linked Image]
Re: Certified Judges [Re: nautic1] #329547
September 28th 2009 10:18 am
September 28th 2009 10:18 am
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,859
Kenosha, Wisconsin
Lil_Ed Offline
P.R. Wisconsin Van Council
Lil_Ed  Offline
P.R. Wisconsin Van Council
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,859
Kenosha, Wisconsin
Good point Phil, but i dont think it matters if you have been judging for 30 years or 3 days, someone is going to have a problem with the way someone judges.


[Linked Image]

Ed Lil' Ed Gray
Co-Chair 40th Van Nationals
President - County Line Vans
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/750547
www.wivancouncil.com
Re: Certified Judges [Re: nautic1] #329550
September 28th 2009 10:26 am
September 28th 2009 10:26 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
M
Mr Truckin Offline
old hand
Mr Truckin  Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
im sure this can turn into a can of worms.i was taught 0 plus judgeing,so most of my scores are always low.judgeing is always what you see,not always do even an experenced judges see everything.i think the idea of certification judges is a great start. and as we all know everything can be improved upon. how do we improve the system?


aka Blue Heaven 77 gmc
Re: Certified Judges [Re: Mr Truckin] #329566
September 28th 2009 10:53 am
September 28th 2009 10:53 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 28,125
Dayton, New Jersey, U.S.A.
Superbeast Offline
Madman!
Superbeast  Offline
Madman!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 28,125
Dayton, New Jersey, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by Mr Truckin
how do we improve the system?


Don't worry Phil, it's time for them to throw stuff at me grin

I agree with Phil and I also agree with the other statements above. I think the biggest thing about being a NEW judge at the Nationals is that the JUDGING SHEET is very New Judge UNFRIENDLY!

I have judged our clubs 7 van runs by myself and have helped at least a half dozen times at other eVANts. I have to admit I had the BEST judging sheet. I need to try and find one, but it was almost idiot proof. The idea that the Nats Board came up with the sheet they use was GREAT, but to me it is more for a seasoned VAN Judge.

I think this was an issue at Keystone as well. I think one of the classes got messed up because 2 vanners were judging the same class and had way different scoring techniques. Well needless to say the nicest van in the class received NO award, and the owner was pissed. Now the mishap is a speculation on my part, and I also realize STUFF happens, but like I said above, MY feeling is that a better judging sheet can be made up, to help new and old judges.

Just MOSTLY my opinion.


Ken Schwarz
Tricky Truckers, N.J.
Van Clan Plus One, Canada
Manse Vans, Finland
Rebel Vanners, N.J. "USA"
Toopa Sinner Tribe, N.C.

www.showvans.com

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/360991

[Linked Image]

"Coolness ALWAYS trumps comfort"
Re: Certified Judges [Re: Superbeast] #329574
September 28th 2009 11:10 am
September 28th 2009 11:10 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
M
Mr Truckin Offline
old hand
Mr Truckin  Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
would love to see you example


aka Blue Heaven 77 gmc
Re: Certified Judges [Re: Lil_Ed] #329643
September 28th 2009 2:57 pm
September 28th 2009 2:57 pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,124
Myrtle Beach, SC
B
Boot Offline
pooh-bah
Boot  Offline
pooh-bah
B
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,124
Myrtle Beach, SC
Originally Posted by Lil_Ed
Good point Phil, but i dont think it matters if you have been judging for 30 years or 3 days, someone is going to have a problem with the way someone judges.




bow bow yeah bow









Re: Certified Judges [Re: Boot] #329689
September 28th 2009 5:41 pm
September 28th 2009 5:41 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
M
Mr Truckin Offline
old hand
Mr Truckin  Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 953
spfld ill
the best judging sheet would be a plain piece of paper?

now that would be fun


aka Blue Heaven 77 gmc
Re: Certified Judges [Re: Boot] #329691
September 28th 2009 5:45 pm
September 28th 2009 5:45 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,266
Western suburbs of Chicago
on the road Offline

Vanner Extraordinaire
on the road  Offline

Vanner Extraordinaire
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,266
Western suburbs of Chicago
Once a person has taken the class and judged the vans that we present to them for judging, they may be certified. Coop and I go over the judging sheets and basically grade them. If a person apparently "gets it" they are certified. If not, then they are not! Part of the responsibility that comes with that is to make oneself available to be a judge at subsequent nationals. We have certified judges that do that. We also have certified judges that have never done that. Whether the nats is your first foray into judging, or your 91st, nobody is perfect, and no system is perfect. You are only judging 1 or 2 classes, and usually the smaller ones. We always encourage the host clubs to bring us their judging sheets so we can check them out and approve them. I don't remember seeing any in at least 10 years.

We started the certification process to help the host clubs achieve some consistency and for them to have the show handled in a professional manner. 3 recent nats have screwed up the show very badly, and we don't need that. Everyone with input and suggestions are welcome, but have the respect to come to the seminars and see what is up, and if you are a certified judge, come add your knowledge by judging, instead of asking generic questions that really don't have answers!

Last edited by on the road; September 28th 2009 5:46 pm.

Howard
"Nickels and Dymes"
Midwest Vans Ltd.
Vanfest Staff
Ontario Federation of Vanners Rep since 1978
National Truck-In Board since 1986
First van event-a hall party...March, 1974...ain't been right since!!!!!



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