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OK, so as this long cold winter here in upstate NY drags along, I'm keeping myself busy collecting additional new items and planning several upgrades for NIGHTMOVES,my '75 Chevy G-20 "Shorty" As many of you know,the exterior of my van is rather plain with a few simple pinstripes and a logo on the rear quarters. Hoping to change all that by this summer...Have some quotes on a "full wrap" airbrushed mural from upper belt line up as well as the same idea done with a custom made vinyl graphic "mural wrap". Just looking for some thoughts,suggestions and HONEST opinions on this subject. Does a van look totally "cheesy" if the mural is done in something other than paint? Obviously I could never expect to win any type of "best paint" award with a vinyl-based mural. Is this "new age" technology of custom vinyl graphics and murals accepted or frowned upon in the show world? Just curious... I do like the idea of having a "lifetime" warranty on a vinyl mural for as long as I own the van and for about half of the expense of actual paintwork however don't really want to be laughed at if I go this direction. I will be adding some additional paintwork to the van regardless of which way I go with the mural.
Depends what you can live with, both budget and happiness

Here is a full wrap, mostly seen on commercial vans.. This one belongs to a Vendor that goes to Van Slam in oHIGHo

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Well lets see there is a show that Chip Foose is on and they give these guys cars to build one team painted the car and the other team wrapped it Foose gave the team that painted it more points so as far as the show car scene I would think that answers your question. As far as my personal oppinion I think it would take away from your van and even if there is a life time warranty there only as good as long as the vinyl company is in buisness so I wouldnt count on that I say air brush all the way you cant get the depth out of vinyl that you can with paint. I hope this helps
I think vinyl can be made to look pretty cool. I'm sure you can get some slick designs using it. I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for using it. I don't know much about it but I've heard "stories" about it trapping moisture and causing some body rot and harming the paint underneath. True or not I don't know. Personaly I would (and did) go with paint.
Was wonderin same thing,seen some really nice wraps,an they a lot cheeper than airbrush thats 4 sure! grin
John if an airbrushed mural is only twice the cost of a wrap I would suggest that you wait until you can afford the mural. I would have expected the price of a wrap to maybe be 1/4 the price of a mural.

Murals that are properly taken care of can last 30 years or more like Stallion's. I'm not sure how long you could expect out of a wrap. Even if they offer a lifetime guarantee that would just be to replace the wrap. I have a feeling you would be taking a fair amount of paint off if you needed to replace a wrap.
This is a new technology that vanners for a wide varity of reasons have been slow to warm up to.
I have looked at some wraps close up (mostly on commercial vans)on some the application of the wrap looked a bit cheezy
(wrap was cracked and peeling up around window edges),
othes looked pretty good to great.
Just like with a painted mural it is up to the graphic artist behind the keyboard to come up with a design you really like and the guys who apply it to the van and the way it is applied to the van to make it look right.
Allot of NASCAR teams use wraps so they can chance up graphics easier.
The younger tuner crowd seemed to have embraced the new technology.
Adhesives and the vinyl its self have came a long way.
My self I would be more worried about how the shine on the wrap will hold up and weather.The last thing you want is to invest in something like this and it turns out to be a far away beauty.
On the plus side if you get tired of the van the wrap can be removed and a blank slate can be handed off to the next owner.
I am just guessing on the last statement just because I have never seen a corporate van that has been striped of its wrap.
I have removed older decals from vans with good success and no damage to the factory paint.
If you do decide to go this route and it looks great.Your vanner friends will let you know it.
If it looks bad......Well they will let you know that too....

.......Wookee

I think of airbrushing like a tattoo. Each one reflects the style of the owner, and the artistry/skill of the painter. Wraps can be done by anyone whith computer skills. I think it takes away from the idea of the individualism and artistry represented in the mural. But with vynil, you can change it up easier, and repair damage easier. I do know vynil has gotten much better. they used it on my boat and it still looks as good as the day it was put on, in 1999. She has been outside nonstop since new and it looks great. I think it is up to you more than anyone. Its your van, do with as you wish. If it makes you happy, it is worth it either way and don't worry so much about what other people think. You bought the van and paid for the custom work you like, whether or not I like it shouldn't be a factor at all.
Thank you, I really appreciate your feedback! I spoke with my vinyl graphics guy again today. One of my major concerns is the overall look of "depth" to the finished product so I inquired about spraying clearcoat over the vinyl. Although I'm told it has been done,they do not recommend it and it would void any warranty. I will most likely be going with paint. My graphics guy is located in Victor NY and is the same guy who did my NIGHTMOVES logos I currently have. They do excellent work,I just don't think the vinyl mural wrap is for me! Their website is as follows if you want to check them out: www.mblgfx.com

THANKS AGAIN!
Thank you Denim! I really appreciate your thoughts! Especially coming from a guy who probably has one of the most beautiful custom painted vans in the country right now! I will most likely be going with paint.

Thanks again...



Thanks Doug!

Very good, I really appreciate the feedback! I will most likely be going with paint but wanted to investigate other possibilities. There really is nothing like an airbrushed mural buried in the depths of glorious clearcoat! lol

Thanks again...
Thank you for your thoughts! I will most likely be going the direction of paint. The LAST thing I want my van to be thought of is a "nice 20 footer"!


Thanks again!
Thank you. I truly appreciate your feedback on this! At 44 years old I finally own the '70's style Chevy van I've dreamed of owning since I was about 14 and honestly want to do the best thing possible when it comes to upgrades etc. Like many others out there I've got a family, a house etc so whatever I accomplish must also fit the budget but I am a bit of a perfectionist so I must be totally happy with whatever I do. At this point I will most likely be going with paint but may hold off on some other mods for now.

Thanks again!
Sounds like you've made your decision, but here's a thread on a fellow that did a partial wrap last year. I haven't seen it in person, but it looks good in pictures.
view thread here
Paint,paint,paint,just my opinion! lol

Thanks Josh for providing that thread... That Dodge looks great!
Still think I'll be going "old school" with paint.



Thanks Jim!

Will most likely be going with paint.
Originally Posted by wookee
If you do decide to go this route and it looks great. Your vanner friends will let you know it.
If it looks bad......Well they will let you know that too....

.......Wookee



Why yes, yes we will! lol

I vote PAINT!
I do like the idea of going with vinyl on a daily driver or while waiting to afford paint. Gives a great option when $ is an issue also. I just like metal and paint is all grin
Thats great,i think you'll be much happier with it.
i have seen some very well done wraps. Hot Rod magazine did a build up of a chevelle they wrapped instead of painting it. I think it depends more on what you want, if its something simple like flames, tribals etc. vinyl is just fine and i wouldnt think less of it for being vinyl. custom work murals, wizards and such i feel should really be paint since there is no chance of replicating truly custom work. That being said its your truck, if you want paint paint it, if you want to spray bomb skulls on it have at it lol!
OK here we go again.

Some of the worst graphics I have ever seen on a van have been painted on. With paint you are completely a slave to the artists whim. (and how much he smoked or drank that day) With a printed vinyl graphic you can at least see exactly what you are getting.

(WARNING! DEFENSIVE ARTIST RANT BELOW!) ;)

As an artist, (both digital and literal) I resent the insinuations by some that just because it is digital it is not art. I worked slavishly over every detail of my graphic before printing and am very happy with the artistic results.

To reproduce the mural on my van in paint would have cost thousands. As it turned out, mine was completely free. But you should expect to spend around 1000 for a turn key job. An enterprising vanner could do the work themselves and get out for well under that.

One last food for thought is that most "mural painters" are not capable of producing a show quality van graphic, so choose wisely, and spend liberally. (around 3 to 4 grand)
It makes all the difference in whether you get this...

[Linked Image]

or this:

[Linked Image]

If you follow these rules, you will be happy with the result.

Good luck, and van-on!
Thanks Ken! I'm so confused now! LOL ...All the feedback I've gotten here has been awesome! Very much appreciated!! I will most likely be going with a combination of paint and vinyl on NIGHTMOVES with the mural in paint and only using vinyl for some details AND new logos. By the way have I mentioned I will be "re-introducing" her to everyone this year as "NIGHTFEVER"?
Hoping to eliminate any further confusion with Erics' van from Binghampton and also out of respect for him and his beautiful van! He had the name first...
Originally Posted by motorjunkie

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If follow these rules, you will be happy with the result.


If she was on my van I wouldn't care if she was wrapped in vinyl!!!!!! grin

I should be that you must have a good plase to paint ( on the van) and a real good paint finish first to rub down to a supper good look and clean clean everthing and what out for the windows and any opening
I well be taken excalibur in for a 2 sided muarls and my finish on the van is real good a the they skuff it up
that I can"t look at and it well take a mounth ,and cleard and cut and polish 3500 and I well be nerves all the time , because it my only ride
but I a happy vanner and it a show everwhere in my heart
Charley
Ps iam changing the name to ???????
pLEASE FORGIVE THE SPELLLLLLLLLLLLLING
Originally Posted by Superbeast
Originally Posted by motorjunkie

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If follow these rules, you will be happy with the result.


If she was on my van I wouldn't care if she was wrapped in vinyl!!!!!! grin



Yeah, so she's easy to UN-wrap! grin

I haven't seen many wraps up close, but Motorjunkie is right, you can get a bad version of either. Shop, look, compare, ask questions, and THEN use your own judgement on top of it all. Ultimately you need to please yourself and not the masses. But... I know at the same time it would be nice if they approve as well. grin Printers these days are so much better than they used to be, heck we can print photo quality prints at home now.... and the inks and vinyls and everything are improving every day. I WOULD say that if you are unsure of what you may want, a wrap would be an easy way to find out without being permanent. Then you could have it painted once you finally decide.

Best of luck in your decision! cool
i saw an expedition driving the other day that had vinyl wrapped murals from 'The Lord of The Rings' and for the 30 seconds i saw it i was blown away... the only thing that i really, really didn't like about it was that it had the printer's information and logos on it too... i suppose if an enterprising Vanner had a wrap done they could get the logos removed...

as is everything, prep is key... yes, vinyl can crack and fade and peel around corners/body lines/anywhere... but, if it's high grade vinyl and the person laying it is worth their price, you don't need to worry about it anymore than if someone didn't scuff the van enough, in the corners, ETC...

it really is a coin toss (ha ha - how much coin are you tossing at 'nightfever'?!) But, like motorjunkie said - you get to see it before it goes on the van...

my vote is paint, because airbrush artists (great ones) are few and far between... there's nothing like airbrushing...

with that said, i'm not taking anyhting away from motorjunkie's point about someone being a graphic artist on a computer - hell, just look at any movies made from the mid-1990's to now...
Thank you Josh! Your feedback much appreciated!
Thank you for the response. I will most likely be going with a combination of paint and vinyl for a unique effect. Actually right now my biggest challenge is figuring out the exact mural scene/idea I want to go with. My mural will be a full wrap around the van but only from the upper belt line and up to the rain channels.


I know that this thread is pretty much closed out, but I want to throw my 2 cents in. Vannin is cool because you can do what ever you want to your ride. A van can be taken in so many different directions. If you want to weld a battle axe on the hood as an ornament, then go for it! If you want to put some damn hippie stickers all over it more flower power to ya! Why end up being a conformist in non-conformity? Do what you like, and don't worry about what a "purist" thinks!

you just cant beat an airbrushed mural.
i have an airbrushed mural on my toyota hilux that was done in 1992.
and it still looks this good. (this pic was taken in sept 2010)

[Linked Image]

dont expect vinyl to look that good after 20 years much less 2 years.
do you have an airbrush artist in mind? i have an awesome guy if you need one...

Thanks for the feedback... Your paintwork looks great! I will most likely be going with an airbrushed mural.

Thanks again!
Originally Posted by Lucky_Brew

dont expect vinyl to look that good after 20 years much less 2 years.


You are showing your ignorance making a statement like that.

Vinyl can maintain its luster through ten years of constant exposure, and will last indefinitely if kept garaged. This is comparable to painted graphics.

Billions of dollars in R&D have been spent by companies like 3M to make sure that this is so. And billions of dollars are spent every year applying this technology to all manner of outdoor substrates (including thousands of vans) Vinyl is a good alternative to paint and is here to stay.
showing my ignorance? really? 2 years it will probably look new. a vinyl wrap WIL NOT last as long as good paint/clear. have you ever seen how a vinyl wrap peels and tears around corners, bends, etc? i could take you around nashville and show you 200 vinyl'd vehicles that look like crap and cost over $2000 to wrap. if you could wrap each panel individually while the panels were off the vehicle with all trim, emblems, rubbers removed them maybe... vinyl window stickers dont even last long in direct weather. it might be a good alternative but take a look at a building or a van that has vinyl signage/lettering after a few years. chances are it cracks/peels/fades, etc. my mural was water based tshirt paint of all things but it had a high-end clear over the top. thats why its lasted forever. and of course it will last long parked in a garage - anything will! and since when does vinyl have a luster? you just cant compare my mural hoods shine to a vinyl sticker. you cant do things like this with vinyl! (and its not even cleared)
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
brian "lost cause" walker custom airbrushing
I took issue with your "2 years" statement, and you backed off.

I didn't say it would last as long, I didn't say it was better, but it is an alternative. Most "show quality" vans ARE garaged, so that will mitigate the main difference between the two processes. Just as you pointed out that there are many vehicle wraps that do not look good up close, I can do the same with improperly painted flames etc. The quality of the installation and artistry is imperative to either process. I can point out just as many quality jobs that only a professional could tell it was not paint.

and YES they are shiny, with a quality overlam applied. This car was white.

[Linked Image]

Good flames (quality wrap job) and Bad flames (non quality paint) either work takes skill and artistry, the lack of it will end in a poor result every time, whether paint OR vinyl.

[Linked Image]
true statements but you just cant cut/buff/wax a vinyl wrap if you get a big scuff mark from some idiot that decides to rub his belt buckle against your ride at a show. yes you can peel it and rewrap it but then you hope it matches. god forbid the pigmentation hasnt faded. i have friends that have had their vinyl wraps "repaired" and they look even worse than the wrap itself.
i understand your defense as you have the wrap on your van, it looks cool and im sure it was a fraction of the cost over airbrushing but to me, it just isnt the same as a good airbrushed mural nor does it have the luster appeal. neat nonetheless.
as for the mustang you pictured, ive seen that car in person and at about 2 feet away you can see the printed pigmentation on the vinyl but at 20 feet away youd think it was painted.
here is my club logo that was done via digital print. its awesome and will last 1000 Xs longer than a painted window but the down side is that the sharp edges start to peel up and my truck cover and cleaning rags start to leave lint around the edges.
that being said, i guess each have benefits and flaws yielding personal taste and opinions as the common denominator.

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one final note... the alignment of this wrap on the 'stang SUCKS! epic fail for sure!! i'd be pissed if i paid all that money for a STICKER, took it to SEMA and then it looked like this:

[Linked Image]
What are you gonna do with that painted mural when the scratch is through the clear?

its been through the clear about 4 times. ive had this hood over 20 years. we touched it up and recleared it. good as new! once all the way to the metal. the hood was hanging in my buddy's airbrush shop for a few years until i decided to build another truck exactly like the one that the hood came from. this truck is a tribute to the truck i had in highschool. the hood and grille are the only things i have from the original truck.
wow, this was quite a can of worms. I was going to ask the same question. I think the answer to the question is, how long do you want the van to look that way. Paint or vinyl, you can change both, vinyle is easier to change, no sanding or stripping required. Scratches in either one, hard to fix, either one fades so matching colors, not easy. Also it would depend on your vans base color and how often you wax or wash it. Everyone knows that red fades the fastest in prolonged exposure to sunlight. If I wrap my van, then the paint fades, when I re-wrap it, how willl the fade lines look?
FYI - removing vinyl is NOT an easy task. i would rather repaint my truck/van than peel vinyl! I work for tristar energy and i have to re-decal shell gas stations (pumps, signage, store fronts, etc) on a daily basis. peeling that vinyl SUCKS!
A vehicle wrap uses a special kind of vinyl called "control tac" which is much thicker and easier to remove than standard vinyl. It is also double thick because it is overlaminated with a shiny coat to add luster and seal/protect the graphics. These features make it much different than the sign vinyl that you have described. You are correct when you say that sign vinyl sucks to peel. Control tac is very easy to remove in comparison to regular vinyl, much easier than repainting a van. I have installed and removed vehicle wraps and am speaking from experience.
Ahhhh, he is basing all of his negative bias based on a different product that he deals with at work. Got it.
LOL @ control-tac being different than what we use. control-tac is EXACTLY what shell uses on their gas pumps! lost that fight my friend! its still sucks to remove! but some of the store fronts do you basic vinyl.the vinyl at my work is much different that common signage vinyl. it has to be chemical resistant, etc.

pealing a vinyl wrap still isnt an easy task... most vehicles ive seen that have had the wraps removed look horrible and need some clean up to get the paint back to normal. plus if the guy that installed the wrap used a razor blade at free will to trim it up then you have tiny cuts to deal with.

vinyl wraps just cant replace nice artwork. my buddy that painted that bike pictured about would make your van look amazing with the star wars theme - just cant compare, sorry. (and hes not a drunk/stoned artist as you referred to artist in another statement).

defend it all you want. the common use of graphic design has taken sooo much away from most art forms. ive even seen stencils for pinstriping! epic fail!

i do faux finishes, murals, graffiti, etc on the side (thats why i decided to build a van) and i can tell you first hand, i can do things to a wall that graphic design type wallpaper or stickers just cant compare to!

YOUR COMPARISON PICS: they just arent realistic comparisons! you are all over the map with those. COMPARE PRICING! what you get for a $2500 wrap as opposed to a $2500 airbrushed mural! might take some time but then you can accurately gauge it. you are comparing an art major with 10 years experience to a kindergartener that cant read the crayon labels...

and what about the alignment on that mustang? avoiding that one are ya? LOL
Maybe you're just the wrong guy for the job?

Just a couple of the many I found showing how easy it is...

Vid 1

Even faster



its possible! LOL
but the internet does make things look simple!
see...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxd2k_woodie-van_lifestyle
i say you walk up to a parked wrapped van and just start peeling! LMAO!
seriously though, it can be that easy if its fairly new and not weathered. take into account many things, age, temps, etc... if the van has been raked against tree limbs for a year then i PROMISE it wont be that easy with little tears throughout the vinyl. it will rip and rip and rip. vinyl is also a lot different to remove in summer vs spring vs winter, if you are doing it outdoors. many many things to take into account for ANY of this discussion/argument.
as for me: ill agree to disagree on this one. i could keeping typing responses but at the end of the day...
[Linked Image]
this is more like the removal process...

and those heat guns get HOT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBFAdDxkpU

You are the dead horse my friend. Calling this a "FIGHT" shows your mind set. You are the one criticizing. You are the one who keeps on insisting that vinyl is crap. I HAVE removed a wrap and it was much different than peeling sign vinyl, certainly nothing compared to a paint job. How many vehicle wraps have you removed?

You do not know WHAT was on those gas pumps that you removed. Gas stations do not typically use lamination because the graphics are screen printed on the vinyl. The thick lamination makes a HUGE difference in removal. Additionally, Control Tac has not been used for very long and you were likely replacing non laminated standard vinyl with the newer CT.

If you want to be prejudiced to other art forms no one can stop you. Unfortunately, you become the EPIC FAIL. Vannin is about diversity. It is about trying something new, creating something different, and appreciating someone else's creativity and talent.

You, are a stone thrower. That doesn't fly around here.
LOL @ your post! vannin isnt the only diverse automotive art form my friend. vinyl vs paint is much like the rod guys debating billet vs steel. at the end of the days, DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS! they both have benefits and flaws! as does anything...
There are many people on here that have posted they like paint more than vinyl. That is fine.

The difference is that you are going around saying ignorant things about vinyl. "vinyl will not last 2 years" "vinyl always peels at the corners" "I would rather repaint my van than strip a wrap" ON AND ON. I have made no such ridiculous claims and neither has anyone else.

All I have said from the beginning is that vinyl is a valid alternative to paint. I am glad that you have come around.
Looks like you finally got through to him motorjunkie.
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