Vannin' Home
Posted By: swimmster Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:32 pm
I am about to undertake the process of turning my conversion van into a windowless quilt of new and clean used patch panels and NO windows. That is, until i can find some suitable SMALL windows that fit my tastes. Be prepared for a boatload of pictures. I also intend to do this entire job with a harbor freight wire MIG welder with FLUX wire. I do NOT want to use flux wire, but unfortunately, it's all that;s at my disposal at the moment. I am trying to take as many pics as i can showing everything for anyone wishing to take on a similar project. The photos i took last night are currently uploading and will be posted here shortly.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:43 pm
Here's what i started with. Bought a fe years ago in Michigan.

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Ditched the ugly blue stripes. Noticed some orange starting to show itself from the shoddy hack bondo job in the rockers and elsewhere.

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Such as HERE...

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Long story short, the windows were rusty underneith, some holes had been filled where water collected behind the expanding foam, etc.. sooo.. on to THIS!

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Spot weld cutters are an AWESOME tool!!
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Now for the REALLY ugly..

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That is as far as i've gotten as of last night. Have some repair and patch pieces coming to fix the floor and pillar, etc.
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:45 pm
This will be another great project to watch this winter..look like you got your work CUT out for ya lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:49 pm
been thru TWO stacks of cheapo cut off wheels already.. from chopping the side walls out of the donor to cutting up what i have at home. gettin tired of cutting.. was pretty dissappointing to find the rest of the cancer.. can;t wait to pull up the rest of the carpet and see what;s under there. .. BTW.. no subfloor.. just foam board insulation and carpet padding was all that was under there. go figure. wait till you see the floor when I finish it.. ;)
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:51 pm
must be a picture limit in a posting.. lol.. here's the last three..


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Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 5:54 pm
Yup..I would say you have a little work ahead of you..I'm sure in my daughters early we will find a suprise or 2 but we'll get them fixed...good luck and I'll be watching this post closely..
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 6:10 pm
wow jamie! i think the one we're cutting apart is in better shape than yours !!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 6:17 pm
HAAAAAAAAAA!!!.. trust me.. i was thinkin that too once i pulled that piece of metal off the side of my van!!.. I'm gonna piss off Boot and Snotty and just go to Home Depo and buy the biggest BAY window I can find and slap it in there!!... HAHAHA!!

Nah.. i bet they;re happy to see that copper hunk of sheet metal in my garage.. lol.
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 6:23 pm
i like how you did all the welds and skinned it - but a sawzall is a nice tool to have in a pinch !!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 6:25 pm
Some VERY basic ideas i am playin with.. IF i can ever get a set of these windows.. lol..

The middle drawing has two small doors by the rear wheel. these would be 2 gas doors conceiling power and water hook ups. of course, their location is NOT finalized.

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Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 6:28 pm
i personally like the third one - no windows and put in a back-up camera !!!
Posted By: shaggy Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 9:35 pm
I like the first drawing but without the tall vertical window.
Are you gonna take off the front fenders? If you do will you be a pal and post some photos of the job as I'll have to replace mine in the near future. See my other post....

https://www.vanning.com/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=238172&page=1
Posted By: relaxedvanner Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 9:40 pm
I'll be watching this post closely as well. Good luck on it. I like your plans for it.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 10:02 pm
I wasn;t planning to take them off, but if i get all the sheet metal for the headlight conversion to the 79 ish style, then i believe i may have to take them off. I plan to post pics of everything as i go.. now that i have space to do this, I'm doin it right!!
Posted By: vervepipes Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 11th 2008 11:44 pm
Looks like a lot of work, glad you're determined enough to do this!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 11:28 am
HOLY CRAP! eek I would started with a new van! grin I hate RUST! mad Good luck with the project. yay
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 1:44 pm
I hate rust tooo!!!.. lol.. You can't find a van cleaner than this in Upstate NY.. lol.. I found this in Michigan and it was as clean as i could find in the north country for the price.. lol.. Actually, to get anything from the south up here and super clean, was starting at $4500.. Ah well.. I love this style van and you know what they say.. EVERYBODY loves a challenge of some kind.. hahah..
Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:19 pm
Thats a hell of an undertaking, you're taking on there. I will be following this one aswell. If ya look a little harder, there are lots of cleaner vans around the north. I have one really clean Dodge, and another somewhat clean Dodge. Maybe its just the Chgevy's that are rusty...rofl
Posted By: Ford77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:34 pm
my ford is nice and clean and i live in upstate ny must be the chevys lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:37 pm
The only van's i have seen around here that aren;t rusty, are up form the south.. lol.. or cargo vans. occasionally, i see a 95ish cargo van with NO rust.. did they start galvanizing those too like they started doing with the pickups? Like I said, only CLEAN vans i could find around here were a boat load of money.. at least, more than my minisquel budget allows for.


Anyhow, I need to have a bumper sticker made up for me that says " Built form 100% recycled VANS!! "

More pics to follow..
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:37 pm
don't listen to Brad, swimmster... he'll be using your project to figure out stuff for his Dodges soon enough rofl

This is a great project! Nice designs too!
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:47 pm
Ok you Dodge guy's not all Chevy's are rusty lol I have seen some really bad Ford and dodges..it's all in how you take care of them..
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:48 pm
Brief tutorial on cutting off the side of a van and use of spot weld cutter.


First, Clean out all the seam sealer with a stiff wire wheel

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Don't go CRAZY and remove every little bit of paint, sealer. leave it like this so you can easily identify the sunk in spot welds.

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Next, go get yourself one of these SUPER sweet spot weld cutters from any auto body supply place. Then center the bit with the spring loaded pin and push in just enough to cut thru the outer layer of metal.

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What i did previously, was remove the sheet metal up TO the door jamb so that i could get behind this last strip of metal with a flat screw driver and pry it off away from the spot welds. This is what you should end up with after cutting the welds.

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Now you just wanna smooth out what's left from the spot weld cutting

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and finally, use the wire wheels to fully clean out the door jamb and remove all the left over seam sealer so you have a nice clean surface to work with.

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Do the same procedure for the back door jamb, the gas door and along the floor line, then cut just below the floor line and pop off the side of your van. By now, the factory vibration damping goop betwen the panel and the supports is no longer sticking, or will peel off very easily.

Let me know if i missed anything.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:52 pm
Here is what i found after removing this side panel and cutting out some carpet.

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What a hell of a place to put in a sliding glass door and a BIG honkin DECK!!

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Hahaha... Maybe build one of those slide out sections like on the big RV's? hahahaha..

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Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 2:55 pm
christmas list for jamie : spot weld cutter !!
Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 3:11 pm
Looking good so far. Amazing what you find under carpet EH.

And yeah I know, they all rust out the same, if not taken care of...lol

I don't want ya to think I'm just a Dodge van fan...

I like all vans, and coulda ended up with a Chuvit(chevy), or a Turd(ford) in the driveway, but happened to find clean, solid Dodges...
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 3:20 pm
I have a spot weld cutter.. lol.. Will definitely take some more replacement bits though.. lol.. Believe it or not, I have cut close to 200 welds with one of the 3 replacable bits this cutter comes with. much unlike the last one i had which had DOUBLE SIDED cutters that you could flip.. and would shear the teeth off them after almost 4 welds.

I WOULD like a gas regulator and a larger tank of gas than the tiny ones they sell at harbor freight.. hahaha!!!.. Oh.. and a metal Brake, um.. nice new wheels, 1/4 inch plywood, nice carpet, many more lights, AGM 220 amp hour battery, 3000 watt inverter, solar panels, portable Wild Blue satellite internet dish, Sirius radio, and about 10 grand in the bank so i can jump in my van and go see the world too!!


lol
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 3:35 pm
Dude, I'm glad you can make jokes about your van. I like to do that kind of stuff, but that rust would have turned me off to your project already. I like the slide out idea tho!

By the way, as far as the cut off wheels, you gotta get the 3M green ones. They last 100 times linger than the cheap ones. They cost about $25 for a pack of 5 (I think), but worth every penny.
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 4:02 pm
THE NEW YORK MEGA MILLIONS JACKPOT FOR FRIDAY IS 62 MILLION DOLLARS - THAT'S 62 MILLION DOLLARS !!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 4:06 pm
I will look into the cut off wheels. Sounds like a worth while investment. I just use these cheepies for some of this rough stuff. I donlt mind makin jokes.. besides, this is also a learning experience for me too.. like the other thread about welding up windows. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!.. lol.. I ahve the hwole winter to kill with this project, so.. no worries..

Here's some shots of the passenger side rocker i repaired. and the patch panel at the front of the rear wheel well.. Unfortunately, i didn;t get good pictures of the before. That part of the van, the front of the passenger side wheel well was the worst on the van and was constantly raining orange all over everything, so I promptly cut that panel out first thing. It sat that way for a long time. but the orange crap was gone.. Heres pics of how it turned out at least.

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This is my favorite part.. the finishing......

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Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 4:31 pm
hahahaha!!.. Stan, You kill me.. lolol..
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 4:59 pm
Very nice work on your patch panels..with that kind of talent I'm sure the rest of the project will turn out great..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 5:06 pm
Very nice job! If you did that, then I guess what you are doing now was anticipated. I was just trying to say that my spirits would have been down after finding all that rust. cheers to you!
Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 5:16 pm
WOW!!! Thats a hell of an awesome job. Do you have any shots of that repair, prior to priming???
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 5:52 pm
no.. no shots of it prior.. I wish i had taken some.. i was sort of in a rush doe to weather, etc and at the time, having to drive it as well. perhaps the phone battery was dead at that moment.. I can;t remember, but would have bene nice to have a picture of that. What i did was get the rockers and that patch panel from Mill Supply and then sat down and got my spot weld cutter and drilled the welds along the floor pan line. Then put the new patch over the area and scribed a line on the old panel. I then ground just a touch below that line. I cut up into the very bottom of the rocker ahead of the seam where it wraps around the inner rocker.. mainly just to get the metal out of the way. that whole side of the van, the lower 1 inch of inner rocker was pretty much wasted. I bought a small sheet of thicker sheet metal and cut a bunch of 2 inch strips to rebuild the inner rocker. Then I put up the panel and tacked it inside the door jamb. Made sure it was adjusted to line up with the appropriate body lines and then re-trimmed the existing body and panel to get a perfect little groove to butt weld back together. SOMETHING TO SAVE A BOAT LOAD IF TIME!! ---- a sheet metal HOLE PUNCH.... I still don;t have one yet, but without it, you will have to drill a ton of holes in your new metal flanges to reweld on the old spot weld locations.

Ah.. and almost forgot.. ESPECIALLY on a conversion van... should you find yourself having to weld something along the floor pan line. You will find it ULTRA cheap insurance to pull the interior panels and remove any EXPANDING FOAM.......... that crap ignites REAL fast.. and if it doesn;t ignite right off the bat, it will slow burn for a REALLY long time. hate to have your van burn up after you finish a nice patch job.. let alone a smoldering fire inside someplace that you don't see and have the fire dept show up in the middle of the night dousing your van.. have seen it happen.. have also made the same mistake. did not know that crap was behind there. I will be taking detailed pics of eveything else i do on this poor infected van.

As for the finished product, I ground down the welds, had a VERY minor spot that warped outwards, so just tapped it down.. spread on some duraglass and used the long board sander seen on the step with 60 grit.. then worked my way down.. then polyester filler, finish sanded, and primed. sanded with 400, primed again, sanded with 600, then 800, then painted. sanded 3 coats of paint with 800, then clear coated. sanded 4 coats of clear with 1000 and 1500 and buffed.

I found the filling, priming and paint/finishing to be the most fun part of the project.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 12th 2008 5:55 pm
BTW.. I have not done the front door rockers yet. mainly due to the shape of the panels i got from Mill Supply. not exactly a perfect fit or same bends. can get some pics if you want to see this. however, most of the panel is usable. has some odd bends that just don't seem to fit my van either. So in any event, I will take LOTS of pictures of those two repairs as well.
Posted By: Mat Mobile Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 1:59 am
Thank you for all the info, I will follow this thread closely!
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 3:02 am
wow thats quite the undertaking... Im with Ken on this one and have to say my spirits would have been crushed after seeing all that rust! damnnn! Looks like your doing a great job of repairing the panels so far thou... hows the frame look? Are ya sure Mill Supply sent the correct panel? I had to call them back and ask and sure enough they sent the wrong one.. still have it too they said keep that one and we'll get the right one right out to ya... was here in 2 days!

Good Luck with your project bro...
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 3:42 pm
OK.. only worked on her a little bit last night, but got the outter floor edge off of the inner rocker panel.. Speaking of the inner rocker panel.. WHY is that the ONLY piece of the van that was GALVANIZED???? the floor panels attached to it are all rotted.. but the inner rocker is in great shape.. See the pics.. lol..

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I saved this piece of the floor extention incase i need it later. it's in decent usable shape with some clean up.

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Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 6:43 pm
you know I'd like to call you a madman for taking that van all to pieces like that but because I have this feeling you're going to put it all back together come hell or high water I'm very interested to see the end result. Lookin good so far.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 7:09 pm
It's definitely going to go back together.. all the pieces are coming. have most of them.. was actually seriously thinking about it the other night, but i have JUST about all the pieces here to seriously make a slide out.. much like you see on the motor homes and travel trailers. Actually, have a couple ideas.. I could make the slide out, or from the body line above the wheel well, I could make the side flip down horizontal with tent like roof.. kind of like the mini pop-up trailers. Have it fold out and be the bed setup. I dunno.. was mulling over in my head last night ow to make the slide mechanism. I can fab up the panel to work like an actual door. Just need to lock down a "slide" design. ONly thing you would notice on the outside is one more seam at the back of the van in front of the gas door. Could be interesting.. will keep you posted on how far that idea makes it along.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 8:12 pm
Depending on how far you would want it to slide you can buy slides from these guys http://www.mcmaster.com/
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 9:28 pm
Awesome.. sure is an aweful lot of stuff on that site.. I don;t want it to slide out very far.. maybe the distance from the wall to the inside of the driver's seat.. what's that, maybe 3 ft? I figure i have the extra doors and 2 opposing door jambs here that i can cut up to make one MASSIVE door.. Latch on both ends with remote poppers. Just need to get weather stripping that will go all the way around that thing. Then , just adding the slide mechanism and support system, mini walls and roof for it. I want a cabinet or 2 on that wall with a fridge, sink, cook top, etc.. could be the ideal place for it. underside could be made into the storage area for the batteries, propane and water. Heh.. with the right actuators, you could just make the entire roof lift up as well. May hae to make a new Y-pipe for the exhaust since it runs down the driver;s side. would be in the way of an aweful lot. uugh.. got like 6 different ideas in my head for slide.. gotta get home so i can draw it out.
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 13th 2008 9:45 pm
You could look at RV manufacturing supplier for slide mechanism as well as getting seal to go all the way around..I have a slide on my RV and with their seal have never had a leak..
Posted By: on the road Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 1:09 am
Since you have extra jambs, why not make it slider door size and use the factory gasket to seal it when closed?
Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 12:23 pm
Originally Posted by swimmster
Actually, have a couple ideas.. I could make the slide out, or from the body line above the wheel well, I could make the side flip down horizontal with tent like roof.. kind of like the mini pop-up trailers. Have it fold out and be the bed setup. I dunno..


This idea I have had also, but for my van trailer. When I close up the front, I may use 2 doors, welded together, hinged at bottom, with a 3/4" plywood floor, to extend my bed area. And close it in with canvas.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 5:52 pm
Cut out some bad spots on the floor. Set one fo the door jambs in place just to "see".. lol..

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I gotta say... they couldn;t have come up with a better invention than the spot weld cutter.. lol.. You drill the welds and the panels fall right off.. lol.. As many of you have expressed about the disheartening rust here, I am actually having some fun doing this. Every time i'm out there, I get new thoughts and new ideas. Not to mention the inspiration to stick with it from you all. htose that say no way, hah.. that makes me want to just prove i can do it. lol.. and those that are intrigued and want to see how to do this, that's fun for me also. Let me tell ANY of you who have never done work like this before, DO NOT be afraid to dig in. This is REALLY not all that hard to do. The welding, you can practice on the scraps you cut off the van. the spot weld cutter is about the only specialized tool you will need. otherwise, a drill, hammer, flat screw driver, some small wire wheels, disc grinder, etc.. I have done small patch jobs, but i have NEVER gotten into something this involved EVER. I am not one to be afraid of these sorts of things.. I learned how to rebuild my own transmissions.. have done my own engines since i was 14. This is my FIRST major MAJOR body work job. I'm just dying to get this thing welded up and move on to the finishing stage as i get the most enjoyment out of that part. When it comes to body work anyways.
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 6:08 pm
awesome, I'm excited for you as well! the right attitude is what it's all about. It's like some of the great sports starts like michael jordan say, there is no room for defeat in my vocabulary. It's not an option. Way to be keep the posts comin!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 6:32 pm
I need to have a bumper sticker made up.. " Made from 100% recycled VANS!! " And yes.. the posts and pictures will continue to flow..
Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 7:01 pm
Well from what I'm seeing here, I have good intentions on doing some similar work to my 82 Dodge Maxi van next spring. It will have to wait till then, as I have no real garage, and my 91 show/summer Dodge is in the shelter.

Keep up the awesome work...yay
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 14th 2008 7:10 pm
I spent MANY MANY MANY years with no garage to do anything in, so yes, I used to have to come up with some creative winter hobbies. This winter will finally be different as we jsut moved to this house and I can actually do something in there. lol.



Under the holse i have cut out, I have noticed just how much room there is under the floors of these things.. Since i definitely want a cabinet or 2 with my own power system and at least, smallwater system, there is plenty of room for battery bays and a grey water and fresh water storage tanks. Possibly even a small propane tank? Do RV's have permanent mini propane tanks which can be filled from a filling station? or would i be stuck trying to manuver a BBQ Grill tank under there? or theu a floor panel? Possibl even a stowable mini portapotty.. I dunno.. trying to figure out jus thow self sufficient i want this thing.. based on the wya the economy is going, should prob have it totally self sufficient.. haha..

AS for taking this poroject on yourself, if you can get NEW rockers, side skins from there on up should be easy to find and recycle. That's what got me to start asking about mine.. i figured most things up here are at least rusted at the rockers and those I just bought a while back, so.. gotta be a rotted out cargo van somewhere with good side panels. Sure enough. I donlt think my want ad for sides was out for more than a few hours.. lol.

Man I love this place!!

Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 15th 2008 12:45 am
check these out... linky
they are self contained units.. and yes most of the tanks etc. are UNDER the van.. I too love your attitude! keep up the good work laugh
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 15th 2008 4:24 am
Originally Posted by swimmster

Man I love this place!!



were you referring to michigan, the united states or vanning.com? You can answer all of the above. what does saturday hold in store for this project?
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 15th 2008 1:51 pm
I was refering specificly to vanning.com.. lol... hopefuly this weekend holds alot of progress. atleast alot more disassembly and assesment.. possibly installing floor patches.. may go check out some steel and see what i can work with for a slider project.. I cant post pics until monday, soo... You all get to enjoy the suspense! haha....
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 1:15 pm
Nice Job so far......
As far as the fitment of the replacement panels go its a van thing.You can take a set of perfect doors off of one van that fit perfect.Bolt them on to another and they fit like crap.
I have ran into this problem with replacement panels.
Its almost like each van is a one off.

invest in a "flanging tool" around 35.00
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If you can fit a butt weld.A flanged opening will give you a backing and will be oh so much easier/stonger to weld....
This tool will also punch out the holes you are looking for to re weld in your new panels

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1110

The rust problems you are dealing with are the one reason I WILL NOT insulate any of my vans.Any time you glue any thing to the outside sheet metal of a van you WILL hold in moisture agaist the inside sheet metal of the van.
The other problem is GM never painted/treated the insides of there rocker panels.The inside of these panels will sweat during temperature changes hot to cold or cold to hot.
Treat you replacement rockers with a weld through primer or even some good old rustoleum in the areas out of the heat range to slow the rust dowm some.
Being on the Easten edge of the "rust belt"

Here is a picture of some suface/sweat rust I found on the inside of an early Chevy under the roof bows that spent most of its life in Arizona

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Have fun keep up the great work.....

......Wookee

Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 3:47 pm
I still say that if you are going to insulate, spray inside walls with a rocker gaurd type stuff. My 82 Maxi, which was converted in 82-83 has this on the walls, and still no rust present, as I tore it apart last winter.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 5:12 pm
I think my plan is, a small sand blaster so i can clean up any residual rust left over to super bare metal, then self etching primer, primer sealer, then some type of QUALITY truck bed liner from floor to ceiling, front to back, top to bottom. something that will BOND chemically to the primer or whatever i have to use to make it work.. Not to mention the boat loads of seam sealer inside and out, etc.. she'll never rust again!!.. haha..


Not a whole lot done this weekend except gettingthe seats out and turning the van around so i have some more space/light to work. and be able to open the basement door with the fireplace going so i can have some heat!!.. lol.. I only took 3 pictures of the back rust spot over the front leaf spring perch. nothing really to speak of. I DID however bite the bullet and went and bought a CO2 tank and regulator, large spool of solid MIG wire and all new tips, etc.. I figure if i gotta do this much welding, I'm doin it as best as i can with as good of equipment as i can afford. I am also going to harbor freight as i will have a few hours to kill tonight and look for that flanger tool. THANKS for that info!!

More updates soon.. I promise!!
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 7:16 pm
Good plan swimster! I'm contemplating a small compressor and spot blaster on my vans too... I hope I dont have to cut as much as you did, but I probably will!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 7:44 pm
Well, as luck would have it, which typically, i NEVER have good luck, the van I got the skins from had near perfect floors so Stan graciously got the whole driver;s side floor and front foot well, etc cut up for me to come get. The entire inner rocker section is in near perfect condition which is bizzar considering how badly the lower outer body was on this thing. Sooo.. I have a source for floor patches now. Hoping to just do one big patch on the driver's side and use the rest as needed. I'd like to get a big blasting cabinet so that i can thoroughly clean all the incoming metal. We'll see.... lol.. I got a small 20 gallon compressor for free.. needed some minor maintenance. can;t beat the price though.. lol. works like a top and pumps up real quick. I have a 30 gallon air tank just waiting for a motor and pump. lol.. may have a compressor pump here at work so long as Porter-Cable doesn;t need it back (warranty replaced) I just have to buy a new piston and rod for it as well as a light hone on the cylinder wall. Nice big 2 stage pump. Tomorrow night I will have alot more to take pics of...

Posted By: leadfoot Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 8:18 pm
they also make a vise-grip style of flange tool
takes a little longer on the bigger pieces but just as effective
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 8:54 pm
I waste enough time.. hahaha.. I'm definitely gettin the air powered one.. lol..plus the benefit of the hole puncher is awesome. Hope our store up here has it in stock.. :):)
Posted By: leadfoot Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 9:17 pm
harbor freight or jc whitney has em too
i have an air model, (pistol shaped) works awesome
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 10:03 pm
headin to harbor freight right now.. hahaha.. will let ya know what i find.. thanks guys!!!!!

Posted By: on the road Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 17th 2008 10:18 pm
There are frame mount propane tanks specifically made for your van. They go between the frame and rocker, in front of the driver side rear wheel. The fill port and on/off valve just peek out below the rocker for easy access. Any RV shop should be able to get you one. They are a bit pricey, but designed for the application, so no safety issues!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 2:16 pm
HAH!! Was just looking at that area last night thinking it'd be great for a tank.. and that there;s GOTTA be something since these are used as chassis for alot of mini RV's.. the Mini-Winnie, etc.. but i think i have some stuff figured out..


I went to Harbor Freight and they have that tool there, only they wanted $39 for it!!!... better off ordering online!!.. only $24? lol.. i did buy a cut-off tool for $6 though and some discs.. I can get into tighter places with it and not have to worry about charging my batteries all the time. lol. Took a few pics.. nothing special other than the other small hole which became a HUGE hole over the spring perch. will post in a little while.

Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 2:55 pm
If you are going to invest in the gas find a local weling supply store and pick up a tank of AG25.
This is an Argon/CO2 mix.This mix welds hotter then straight Co2.It will make a noticable differance in your welds.....flatter, hotter, more penatration.
Most places will just exchange your Co2 bottle for a full AG25 bottle when you need to refill.
These places also sell a good quality cut off wheel that will work well in a wizzer......

......Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 3:33 pm
nice... although, around here, one of the top welding supply places has been known to kepe exchanging your tank with an older and older one until the date code is bad and they make you buy another tank.. I ahve a buddy who got nabbed with that and then he bought his OWN tank and makes them refill it every time. several other people i have heard about having the same done with propane tanks.. Also, is it the argon mix that you can use to MIG weld aluminum? or is it a totally different gas?

can't wait to use the "wizzer".. been a long time.. they cut thru metal like butter.. :):) almost bought a body saw, but i figured this will be plenty.. if i run into a situation wher ei;d need it, i;ll go get it.
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 3:53 pm
Its an exchange.Yours for theres, If you know how to check the date just keep an eye on the one THEY try to give you.
Sounds like sombody trying to make a buck on some peoples ignorance.Legally they are not allowed to refill an expired tank.
To weld aluminum you need straigh argon and a machine with the right wire feeder set up to do it.....

.......Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 4:28 pm
My machine STATES in the literature that it is equipped to weld aluminum. I have never even looked to see how to set it up that way.. not welding the stuff any time soon.. My buddy has his name sprayed on the side of the tank to ensure he gets his back.. just has to wait a day for the refill. Thye don;t like it when he comes in.. lol..
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 7:20 pm
The problem with a wire feeder like you have is the long lenth of the lead the feeder has to push the soft wire through.Any interuption in the weld and the wire bird nests at the rollers of the feeder.
The ideal type of wire feeder for aluminum is a spool gun.
To weld aluminum "right" you really need the extra wattage/power of a larger 220 amp machine.

.......Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 7:49 pm
i hear ya there.. as i started reading your post, i was thinking of the spool gun.. maybe by the time i get to where i'd be comfortable welding aluminum, I will be able to afford the better setup. Would be nice as i;ve enjoyed most of the welding i've done so far. I like being that much more independent in my auto repairs. or anything else involving metal for that matter.. lol.

Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 8:02 pm
This is a case where the proper tool for the proper job comes into play.
Welding aluminum can be challanging.Next to impossible with out the "right" set up.
With the "right" set up MIG, welding aluminum is not to hard to master........

There is a street rod shop here that has been using a spay in style bed liner on the insides of the street rods they where building.It really helped to cut down on interior noise as well as seal the metal.
I am thinking about using some of this or the roll on type on the floor od my 89 when the time comes.

.........Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 8:55 pm
i keep hearing the same things on the spray in stuff.. the rubberized stuff REALLY quiets things down.. If you ahve that kind of scratch to put down on that stuff, prob VERY good investment.. I am going to try out the roll on stuff.. whatever the best is i can afford and that LOCKS into the paint or whatever i need to put down first. Anyone use POR-15 or a good quality substitute? I am thinking I'm going to need that stuff.. I've hammered and chipped off a TON of worthless rust proofing material.. Rust proofing.. haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. its stuff they put on to PROOOOOOOVE your vehicle will rust.. I have hammered away chipping off the scalely rust and power wire brushing undercarriage stuff as i am getting to it. should i hit what;s left with a rust converter before the POR-15? or just POR right over it? I already see a small piece of structure i may have to refabricate as it has a big holein it.
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 9:44 pm
POR-15 incapusulates rust and keeps it from spreading..on the early project we will use this on the frame and front floor pans, then for the back we may use roll on bed linder to just give it a cleaner look...
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 18th 2008 11:30 pm
por 15

Use the other stuff that POR 15 recommends... Metal Ready and Marine Clean BEFORE you use the actual POR 15 product.. I did it as they said and had GREAT results on the undercarriage of the Fire Van...
Posted By: Mat Mobile Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 19th 2008 3:12 am
Just don't use the POR-15 on painted areas. That stuff really sticks to rust. I used it on mine to and I am really happy with the results. As Snotty said, use the prep products specially designed for it too.

I am going to start trying the Bed liner/Rocker guard in my inner panels too. I want to cut sound and be able to glue insulation.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 19th 2008 4:10 am
I've been using Rust Bullet automotive (it's silver color with a bunch of aluminum in it) and Rust Bullet Blackshell (which is black) on my van. It's been working out great, and makes a pretty seriously rugged coating, which strikes me as being like epoxy paint. Check them out:

http://www.rustbullet.com/Products/Automotive/Automotive.htm

And check out the comparison page - well worth reading:

http://www.rustbullet.com/IndTesting/500Test/500Test.htm

Interesting stuff. The original Rustbullet was designed to paint aircraft wing leading edges. It can take quite a hit.

Clear skies!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 19th 2008 11:14 am
If you plan to paint over the POR-15, make sure you prime over it when it's still tacky. Once it dries it's hard as a rock, and nearly impossible to scuff.

One trick to removing that rust proofing stuff is heat it with a propane torch and it will scrape right off.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 19th 2008 9:30 pm
Thanks for all the info on the POR. going to use that stuff as i can readily go out and grab a bunch.. not cheap stuff, but for what it does, cheap insurance.

Does anyone know of a company that makes stationary window rubber inserts just like the ones on the side and back doors of the non opening van door windows? I need to find someone that can just send me a custom length. I found today that a customer of mine has access to tempered glass pretty cheap.. I can get automotive grade glass in several different colors. cut to my own dimensions as well as CURVED to my own profile!!.. So i believe I am just going to go with one of my original ideas on the long floor to ceiling side windows in a blue glass color since everything else inside the van is blue and will have some blue stripes on the outside. I will go this route if i can get window inserts that will hold this stuff in.

Was going to post a few pics today, but for some reason, when i open photobucket now, it pretty much locks up my computer. I can;t do anything until i manual shut down Firefox.. never had the problem before. maybe too many pics in one album.. who knows.. anyways.. pics to come.. hopefully tomorrow.

Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 20th 2008 11:33 am
Nearly any glass shop should have that stuff in stock. If you can't find it locally, let me know and I can get you some.

Posted By: Keep_On_Truckin_WNY Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 25th 2008 12:30 am
wow, nice project...! i scrapped my '95 this summer because of rust and a computer problem... if it wasn't for the rust, it probably would have stayed... being a DD, and not having a garage at home, i couldn't have done the extra work on it...
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 28th 2008 6:54 pm
I hear ya there.. if it wasn't for the availability of the parts i am getting, I may have just quick patched it, pieced it back together and put a for sale sign on it..


anyways.. here's the LITTLE bit of progress I have made.. I got tired of looking at the BIG hole, so I decided I would get the new skin cut to fit.. Here's what i ended up with.. Also slapped the visor up there that I got form Hippy Luke to keep me motivated about the look.. The last pic was just me mocking up the front air damn so I can start getting something ready to be fiberglassed.. enjoy... going to be a shame to cut even small holes in this side panel when my new windows are ready...



[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 28th 2008 7:34 pm
Looking good man! I can't wait to see it all done.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 28th 2008 8:19 pm
HAH!! You and me both!!.. I wish i still had Photochop so I could see what it's GOING to look like.. lol.. Ig uess it'll have to stay in my head until I can pound it out on some metal.. lol..

Sunday I'm getting the rest of the floor pieces, etc from Stan. Then hopefully i can start piecing it back together.. Can't wait to finish that last spot weld and start the actual finishing process.. If i could afford to pay someone to weld it back together I would just so it'd get done sooner.. lol..
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 28th 2008 8:41 pm
your patience will pay off though. Hope it all goes well.
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 29th 2008 8:23 pm
Got any pics of the roof drip rail with the skin off of it?
I have section here I will be seperating soon to get the outer skin to build a "shorty" steel gullwing.

There is just somthing about clean van sheet metal with no holes in it that excites ME......LOL

........Wookee
Posted By: VanVida_Israel Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - November 29th 2008 8:46 pm
Good job you're doing, I don't think I could get past that rust,I'm glad you can. I haven't done any body work in a long time probably cause I want to spend the time doing custom work and the dents & or rust get in the way.now that I have a spine injury that curtails it for me. The finished product will make it all worthwhile.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 12:59 pm
Nice job so far. Gonna be a shame to cut a hole in that clean panel grin
Posted By: CatFish Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 2:34 pm
Wow Swimmster! I just read this whole post and my hat's off to ya! If we lived closer together you'd have a free helper. I've tried to do bodywork a couple of times and decided I'm not very good at it. Rust free vans are easier to come by here in "Gods Country". laugh
Panel vans are a little more money but good clean mid-ninety conversions, with minor mechanical issues, are around for under a grand and some even less.
You do good work! cheers
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 4:12 pm
Heh!!.. Thanks Catfish!!.. I'm still in the learning process.. lol.. I learned that the bow in the side panel on the upper half is slightly different about a foot from the door jam... learned the hard way after welding up 3.5 feet of seam and thinking the panel warped.. after cutting all the weld out back to about 6 inches from the door jam, and 2 phone calls, the contour is DEFINITELY different.. you wanna talk about pissed... lol.. ANyways.. pics coming.. i got most of it welded back up... man it was lookin so damn good too... haha.. live and learn.. MAN this is sloooooow going..
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 6:54 pm
And so EVERYONE here knows.. There is NOOOOOO Way, absolutely no way i would have ever even attempted this project if it wans;t for this site and everyone's help and encouragement. Have had several parts donations to include the skins, so without THOSE, there was no way in hell i was going to mess with this.. It would have been just patched up and driven until it rotted totally. Of all the automotive web sites and forums i have been on over the years, NOT ONE has been anything close to this place. The camaro and firebird sites are just people trying to show off their junk.. no one wants to help ANYONE.. maybe a select few, but then those are arrogant. It's still hard getting used to such a NATION WIDE group in here that treats EVERYONE like family.. Thanks to ALL of you for the encouragement and motivation on my van project. I can;t wait to meet some more of you this coming spring and summer.

Jamie
Posted By: chevyvan93 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 7:24 pm
Swimmster my hat is off to you that is a great project, and you are doing a great job. You got me thinking about taking all my windows out of my gladiater conversion (the black one in Photo gallery). I like the way your van is looking and cant wait to see it done. Keep up the great work. chevy drool
Posted By: CatFish Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 9:20 pm
Jamie don't forget the same people here that will help anyway they can will also duct tape you into your lawn chair if you pass out at an eVant.
rofl




Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 10:05 pm
HAAAA!!.. yeah.. I know that.. i will promtly return the favor as well!!.. what are friends for?? hahaha

not a drinker, so.. will just pass out from lack of sleep.. lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 10:16 pm
some more photos.. I have to move them tomorrow.. got put in the wrong album in photobucket, but enjoy..

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

here's a few shots of the window from the van in corvette summer where they mounted it flush and reshaped the belt line at the window edges. looks nice no?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I want something like that, but two small skinny windows.. floor to ceiling.. tinted bluuuue... ;)

Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 11:15 pm
When grinding down welds I use a "hard disk" to remove the heavier stuff then finish them off with a 35 grit disk on a "soft pad" set up.
The soft pad will not cut into the surounding metal as bad as the "hard disk" does......

.......Wookee
Posted By: 67Econo Guy Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 01st 2008 11:25 pm
Wookee,hope you had a full recovery from your leg issue,will you be at the nats in July???
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 1:30 am
He better be! or were coming to get him!!!!<sorry for hijacking>

I so have to agree with Superbeast on this one... your doing a GREAT job with that side are you really really really sure u wanna cut holes in it?
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 1:54 am
The "flush mounting", sinking the window into the beltline... that's what I want to do on my Chev with all my windows... they have lost their seal, and look really bad sticking out when I look in the side mirrors... I was going to bend sheet at 90 deg and wrap it around the window, doing whatever trimming and welding to get nice rounded corners, kind of like a pocket... maybe it would be better to just do the sides... anyway, I'm curious how you'll figure it out! cheers
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 12:39 pm
I like the idea of frenching in the windows (if you have to have them).
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 2:06 pm
If i can get the tempered glas for a decent price like this guy says i can, well, i think i'll have to have them.. haha.. we'll see how she looks when it;s finished and painted. i think i will paint first and then decide. lol.. I think in the back though, if there's a window, it will be VERY small.. like a couple boat port windows or something.. those little oval ones.. REALLY small.. i dunno yet..

Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 2:51 pm
Sounds like we're ALMOST convincing you to NOT cut those sweet solid panels grin
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 3:34 pm
i gave him the panels and i don't want to see holes cut in them either !! i should have put a stipulation in when i gave him the panels that if he cut's windows in them - he owes me money !!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 4:18 pm
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!... like i said.. we'll SEEEE... lolol.. I plan to haul my a$$ out to the california coast in this beast and I wanna be able to see the ocean out of at least ONE window while i'm inside watching satellite TV.. lol.. yeah.. defeats the purpose of driving to cali to camp on the beach, but can't spend the ENTIRE week sitting in a chair on the sand... lolol.. But Blues Traveler has a GREAT look to it, so i dunno.. we'll see what happens when it's primed and it's all white.. ;)

I can PROMISE that if ANY hole gets cut in the side of the van, it WILL be tasteful.. guarenteeeed..
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 4:25 pm
hey jamie, that's why they make side doors .so you can open them and look out !!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 4:39 pm
Originally Posted by SFS60
hey jamie, that's why they make side doors .so you can open them and look out !!



yeah yeah yeah
Posted By: dan Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 4:53 pm
Thats some impressive work your doing there, best of luck to ya.
Thanks for the compliment on Blues Traveler.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 4:56 pm
hahahaha.. yeah yeah... I'm gonna do a bunch more drawings and you guys can all vote on them and see what ya like.. and then I'm just gonna do what i want!!.. HAHAHA.. lol.. I definitely want a cleaner look than those big conversion windows though.. Aside from the blue stripes I will have on it, I dunno.. we'll see.. I'm just tryin to get as much WELDING done as I can per night.. I knew doing this was SLOOW, but DAMN THIS IS SLOOOOW!!!.. hahaha.. I have a "professional" coming by hopefully this evening to check up on me and make sure all is going right, lend a hand, etc.. we'll see.. will take LOTS of pics. I know it's gonna take an aweful lot to get me to cut these up once they are done as this IS alot of work.. so we'll see what happens..

Posted By: 84StreetVan Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 5:06 pm
Just pull on the beach with your van facing the water and look out the big window called you WINDSHIELD LOL

By the way the metal work looks great. I couldn't even imagine taking on a project like that. Keep the pics coming.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 6:15 pm
Originally Posted by swimmster
hahahaha.. yeah yeah... I'm gonna do a bunch more drawings and you guys can all vote on them and see what ya like.. and then I'm just gonna do what i want!!..


That's what it's all about.
Posted By: Keep_On_Truckin_WNY Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 7:06 pm
Originally Posted by swimmster
some more photos.. I have to move them tomorrow.. got put in the wrong album in photobucket, but enjoy..

here's a few shots of the window from the van in corvette summer where they mounted it flush and reshaped the belt line at the window edges. looks nice no?


[Linked Image]

I want something like that, but two small skinny windows.. floor to ceiling.. tinted bluuuue... ;)




"Bull$h!t you're a car theif"

ok, i need to go home and watch it... thanks...!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 02nd 2008 8:41 pm
"What are you laughin at?"

" YOU man.... callin that guy a car thief....."


hahaha.. watched it last night.. AGAIN.. hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

Posted By: Keep_On_Truckin_WNY Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 7:37 pm
yup, same here...!

i think Van Nuys Blvd is going in tonight...
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 8:40 pm
hey jamie , watched corvette summer last nite, paused it on the part when mark hammill pops up through the sunroof - did you see what i saw on the roof of the van ? he has a window similar to the one on the drivers side that goes across the top from side to side !! oh - AND NO SARCASM PLEASE !!!!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 8:48 pm
HAHAHAHAHA!!!.. I made sure to not pause it there.. hahaha..

actually, watch it where they come into vegas for the first time at night.. they do a nice pan over the roof.. there's a sun roof in front, in back and the panel in the middle has squared corners and is about a foot and a half wide and yeah, runs damn near from drip rail to drip rail.. HOWEVER... if you look inside, you never see this panel from the inside. It is also tinted red lexan. too bad you can;t seem to see thru it..

I had thought about something like that.. actually, two of those big panels running down both sides of the roof. Would be a good place to hide the solar panels too.. haha..
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 8:50 pm
btw.. watched it yet AGAIN last night when my buddy came over.. said he had never even heard of the movie.. course, he;s more into the hot rods and 50's cars.. his jaw was on the floor thru the whole beginning scene at the scrap yard. We mostly just laughed about just how 70's that movie was.. lolol..
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 8:55 pm
i remember when that movie first came out - man i wanted to build a vette ! but, just like bo derek in the movie 10 , i couldn't have neither !!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 03rd 2008 9:11 pm
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!.. yeah.. same here.. never wanted a vette so bad back then...

Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 05th 2008 4:34 pm
Man I'm tired of spot welding........ lol.. I started doing some filler work last night. Takin a break from the welding.. hahaha.. course, I get about an hour a night..

pics to follow..


Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 06th 2008 4:09 am
The first date I went on with my wife was to the movies to see Corvette Summer.
We are still together,you do the math.......

.......Wookee
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 06th 2008 6:00 pm
that'd be 30 years.
Posted By: Keep_On_Truckin_WNY Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 08th 2008 10:46 pm
LOL what a nice story...!

my G/F loves Corvette summer... she said something a while ago like 'people just don't live in vans anymore, it's not normal' and i replied with 'that's what makes it more fun now...!'
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 2:01 pm
only reason why they don't is because of the large hotel chains getting together with tgovernment saying people living/camping in RV's and vans was taking away from their profits. Which is why you can no longer camp in a walmart parking lot anymore either. It's almost impossible these days to find a place to park your van for free unless you know someone. and it's pretty much illegal to live in your vehicle now, so... it's not that it's "not normal" to live in your van, it's that it's been made by the government illegal due to taking profits from hotels/motels.. Now that it's illegal, that gives living in your van the stigmata of being a bum, or something to that effect and hence "not normal"... if it were never made illegal, many people would be enjoying that kind of lifestyle. myself being one of them..
Posted By: quiet1 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 3:08 pm
Great undertaking... looks as though it is coming along fine.
No windows is my vote...
Should have chopped it? Next 1? Now that the sawsall is warmed up...

Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 4:57 pm
Yeah... I'm bein leaned more towards no windows.. least on that side... we'll see how things go.. and from what i see, should the day ever come where i have to sell it, not having windows will make it easy to sell.. especially on this site.. hahaha!!!.. Hope I don't ever have to sell, but should i find the next candidate for a project, it may have to go? we'll see.. lol.. should not be talking about selling right now.. as i have ZERO intentions of letting it go any time soon..


I tried three times to post new pics but photobucket is not letting them get uploaded for some strange reason... will continue to work on that prob.. have not done much since i got the floor pieces this past weekend.. i start vacation tomorrow, so.. hopefully alot will be accomplished in the next week!!.. lol

Posted By: DocCyber Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 5:03 pm
im not a big window guy........they just get in the way of that killer paint job...hahahaha....i know a painters bias...:)

every window i did i hated doing.......nice project ya got going.....
Posted By: VankyPanky Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 5:22 pm
Leave it to our government to regulate camping in our vans next. vp
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 5:55 pm
according to gov. regulations, anything really above and beyond the seating arrangments in your van from factory and the addition of power changes the class of the vehicle.. If you set it up to even camp in, they want the class of the van changed to one of the motorhome classes. So i'm tryin to make this thing as sharp and nice and look nothing like a camper.. lol.. although that's going to be one of it's SOUL purposes.. lol

Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 10:15 pm
Originally Posted by DocCyber
im not a big window guy........they just get in the way of that killer paint job...hahahaha...:)



Amen to that!!

Clear skies!
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 09th 2008 11:44 pm
Originally Posted by swimmster
...If you set it up to even camp in, they want the class of the van changed to one of the motorhome classes. So i'm tryin to make this thing as sharp and nice and look nothing like a camper...


With the ever-increasing zeal of the police to boost revenues it sounds like my thoughts on mounting my shore power inlet up under the rear bumper where it's not so obvious might be a better idea than I initially thought... I got one of these a while back:
[Linked Image]
The cap should keep the water out - these are used on boats. My Dad had installed something like this using surplus military connectors on an old Scotty trailer and it worked out great. Having it underneath keeps the connector dry when it's raining while you're parked, and the connector's screw on cap is sealed for when you're driving. I remember his connector had a beaded chain on the cap to keep it from getting lost. This is a much better design, and it's stainless too.

Swimmster - I was having so much trouble with Photobucket's never-ending barrage of badly written advertisements that I eventually couldn't load images either. I finally bought one of their commercial accounts. It works *much* smoother without all the ads, the pages almost load at a reasonable speed, and as an additional benefit, anyone who looks at my Photobucket images doesn't get the ads either - to me, that's a *great* benefit, since I use it as my personal website, and don't want friends to become discouraged.

Clear skies!
Posted By: Doc 2% of Canada, EH!!!! Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 16th 2008 1:07 pm
Originally Posted by swimmster
only reason why they don't is because of the large hotel chains getting together with tgovernment saying people living/camping in RV's and vans was taking away from their profits. Which is why you can no longer camp in a walmart parking lot anymore either. It's almost impossible these days to find a place to park your van for free unless you know someone. and it's pretty much illegal to live in your vehicle now, so... it's not that it's "not normal" to live in your van, it's that it's been made by the government illegal due to taking profits from hotels/motels.. Now that it's illegal, that gives living in your van the stigmata of being a bum, or something to that effect and hence "not normal"... if it were never made illegal, many people would be enjoying that kind of lifestyle. myself being one of them..


Hmmm I think I am guilty of sumthing lol and I am far from normal smile
Posted By: nautic1 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 22nd 2008 1:29 am
Is this true that you are not able to camp in Wal-Mart parking lot's? When did this happen?
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 22nd 2008 2:03 am
depends on the Wal-Mart... most still do some dont depends on the towns ordiances...

http://www.freecampgrounds.com/noparking.html
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 22nd 2008 3:21 pm
all the walmarts here in NY that i have seen have HUGE signs up saying no overnite parking. on most of the light poles.. hope u can still camp there in other states! drivin to cali in march if all goes according to plan! lol
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 22nd 2008 3:48 pm
Jamie, where's the pictures and progress report on the van ??
Posted By: nautic1 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 24th 2008 2:44 pm
A Wal-Mart atlas? Who'd a thunk it.

Oh and yeah how is the van overhaul going?
Posted By: Mat Mobile Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 24th 2008 10:07 pm
My parents went to Yukon this spring and stopped at a few Wal-Marts along the way and back. And my dad is a goody two shoe who would never do anything close to wrong.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 26th 2008 1:01 am
niiiice.. I am very much looking forward to my california trip.. for Christmas, I got the rest of my electrical system for the van.. all that;s needed is to install everything. I have not made ANY progress on the body panels of the van as things ahve been SUUPER busy the last few weeks. Sooo.. nothing really to report as sad as that is to say. I am going to be getting back on the project shortly as i want the body work done soon. Will update sooooon..

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 02nd 2009 3:40 pm
OK... been a long time for an update.. have not accomplished much lately.. busy busy holidays and tryin to relieve stress, so I've been pretty unmotivated.. ANyways.. I went out last weekend as I am getting closeer to the end of the top weld.. I figured it was time to make the vertical cut and see where I stood. Once the cut was made and the tack welds broken loose, the panel shifted upwards clost to an 1/8"... this pretty much throws the belt line off.. I made a call and i have my buddy "the pro" coming out this weekend to take a look and see where i can remedy this. I DEFINITELY now wish I had just put the entire panel on. However, Iw as told that a panel of that size, with the ridges and belt line, etc overlapping, could cause this issue. He keeps assuring me this will be an easy fix. even if it means having to cut my top weld back AGAIN.... says if that happens, he will bring his welder out and see if we can knock it out in a weekend. In the mean time, I am going to cut up the floor panel i got from Stan and get at least that done...

Lesson for ya... if you wanna change your panels EASILY.. get the spot weld cutter, cut out as I showed on here, but also go INSIDE and cut the spot welds on the roof rail and pull the entire panel. when you replace it, you just have to fill back in the spot welds and seal it back up with seam sealer. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE!!.. lol.. NEver claimed to be a pro body worker, so... lolol.. we'll get it saved.

stay tuned for pics..

Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 02nd 2009 4:57 pm
Well it's about time you work evader !! the donor van is finally cut up and parted out - i have the front end h-light panels and top core support bars whenever you get around to it !!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 02nd 2009 5:39 pm
OOOH.. awesome!!!.. will try to get something set up and get my butt out there sooon.... Thanks again Stan!! I gotta get my a$$ in gear.. March is coming fast.. want it ready to haul to California!!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 04th 2009 8:52 pm
Bummer dude!

I'm no pro either, but whenever I do a large panel that has to meet a body line, I always start my welding at the body line to make sure they all align in the end.
Posted By: DocCyber Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 05th 2009 3:13 am
yea what superbeast said..... always spot weld in the critical joints that have to line up exactly especialy a belly band
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 09th 2009 8:41 pm
yeah.. makes perfect sense.. NOW.. haha.. was just goin by what my "pro" buddy was instructing me to do.. so yeah.. i plan to have to cut my weld BACK out again.. not alot, but enough to get my body line to line back up.. after all, it;s only an 1/8th inch off.. been told to "just fill it till it matches" crap.. yeah.. i don't think so.. ao anyways.. I'm gettin exactly what i was looking for on this project... an EDUCATION in sheet metal work. Not a huge fan of all the extra work, but hey.. you gotta learn somewhere. just glad it's not something that has gotten totally screwed up and needs totally new sheet metal.. STAN would be PISSED!!!.. lol..

Oh.. and i'm a little woried about the "no window" guys and the thread about the poor guy with an HHR getting screwed by his insurance co saying it had to be commercial classified cause it had NO WINDOWS.. if that's the case here in NY, well, sorry.. i'm doin the long skinny windows.. If it's not the case, then it will stay windowless for a little while.. if i like it it wwill stay that way.. if i don;t, again, sorry.. windows will have to go in.. but TASTEFUL windows..
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 09th 2009 8:42 pm
Here's the road trip i am planning anyways...



[Linked Image]
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 09th 2009 8:55 pm
Your right, i would be pissed after all that work !!!haha - jamie , i think we're gonna have a race to see who's van get's done first - your windowless conversion van or my restored chevy pathfinder ???
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 09th 2009 10:03 pm
hehehehe.. If i could get motivated like i was again, then watch out!!! haha.. Just been cold and miserable here lately and my damn subaru broke again, so the van is outside as i'm waitin for the salt to kick in so i can get damn traction to get it back up the driveway and back into the garage since the car is now fixed and i somehow ended up with Welder's Flash again even with all the safety gear on.. just one eye though and not all that bad.. uugh.. least i got a damn decent garage to work in.. but i gotta get goin on it.. April isn;t that far away..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 09th 2009 11:22 pm
Hey, no flack from me on windows. IT's YOUR VAN grin

On that trip, you will be cruizin thru Jersey, plan on stopping by!
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 10th 2009 8:15 am
What an awesome trip!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 4:38 pm
Superbeast, I will def put it in my stops book to drop by and check ya out man.. for sure..


Van update... It's back in the garage..... but it took sooooo much work and hassle to get it back in there, that it ended up being ALL i did Sunday.. if it wasn;t for ending up so damned aggrivated and tearin up part of my side yard, i would have prob wanted the humorous aspect of it on video.. after a FULL bag of salt, and a FULL 2 gallons of kitty litter, it was just NOT going to make it up the measly 20 degree slope.. if it;s even that much of a slope. frigin thing was only maybe 10 ft from the garage door where it was parked.. we got a bunch of freezing rain one night evidently and alot of it ran down the side of the van and built up a nice big ice log the lenght of the van that the tires had to go over.. that was saturday nights half a bag of salt.. i let it sit overnight and see what it would do.. Sunday, i chipped most of it out of there on both sides and had pretty much clean driveway.. threw down some more salt just for traction.. fired it up and put it in gear.. started to crawl up the drive and then SPIN.... and spin and just slid back down the drive.. foot on the brakes and all.. ended up sliding off the edge of the driveway and a foot farther back from where it was.. more salt, kitty litter.. nope.. just spin in the mud and grass made by the damn salt melting the ice. Got a flat strip of plywood to stuff under the tire.. you think i could get it to grab? hell no.. i got the kid out there kicking the board with his foot trying to get it to catch under the tire.. hah.. it finally caught.. spit it right out the back and across the road into the neighbor's front yard.. glad nothing was coming down the road.. didn;t think i had my foot even on the gas.. heh.. so after dickin with it for an hour and just making two deep ruts in my side yard and plastering the side of the van with mud, i got the SUBARU out.. drove it in the garage and hooked up the snatch strap.. that poor little subaru yanked that van right out.. course, i have the kid put the van in park.. i back up the subaru.. take off the strap and i hear a "click".. he didn;t put it in park all the way and down it went.. now its down in the steep part of the driveway and way off the side of the driveway too.. Subaru once again struggled and yanked it back up the hill. only had about 7 ft of space to drive the subaru back n forth hitching up the snatch strap and finally got it to the garage door.. shifted a ton of crap around in the garage so i could fenagle the subaru out without moving the van.. now the van's on flat ground and you think the damn thing would move?? STILL spinning the wheels and wouldn;t go forward.. had to have the wife n kid pushing.. all in all, 5 hours of work to get that pig in the garage.. and with my temper, nothing on the van got damaged.. Neighbors learned a few new interesting combinations of cuss words though.. lol


once the snow is melted off it and i clean the mud off my fresh skin, i will get back to it and have more pics coming..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 5:04 pm
Dude, I'm laughing so hard a tear came to my eye. Sorry, but It's funny to me because I've been there! rofl :
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 5:26 pm
Oh it was definitely funny to bystanders.. my other across the street neighbors were just all standing there in their picture window with coffee watching.. placing bets I'm sure.. perhaps as small as video cameras are today, it will maybe end up on youtube.. lol..



but man was i ever pissed off.. ended up knealing in th emud, snow, etc, cat litter, and then when all was done, wife says we have to go somewhere.. i said.. um.. "LOOK AT ME!!"...

anyways.. yeah.. i am very sure it was funny from a bystander point of view and i know i would have been laughing at the same thing, so.. thought i;d share..

Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 5:29 pm
oh.. and my eye still hurts.. turnes out something at some point got in there.. had to be a ball of hot metal or something cause the metal is gone, but it left a burn on the inside of my bottom eyelid.. very small one, but you can see a tiny clear bubble.. Doc says LEAVE IT ALONE... Visine the hell out of it cause until it goes away, it's gonna be irritating. Grossed the wife out last night with it.. had one of my Dental tools from transmission work, (sterilized it of COURSE).. (no.. really.. i honestly did.... ) and was pokin at it.. not tryin to pop it, but tryin to see if it was metal or something i could pick out.. yeah.. wife was freakin.. was awesome.. she just got contacts.. takes her half hour to install them..
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 5:47 pm
OMG! It's hilarious if it wasn't so frustrating!

About your eye, I got that from grinding somehow, not from flash. Maybe I was grinding while I had my welding helmet tilted up, and figured for that second that it would be too much of a PITA to put my goggles on... but the injury is exactly like you describe... a blister on my eyelid.

There is a Visine with a yellow label... "Workplace" formulation. I used that when it happened to me, and it was awesome. I'm very squeemish about putting stuff in my eyes, but I "desperate" enough to use the drops.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 6:23 pm
hahaha.. yeah.. i'm squimish too.. i can look at my eye up close, manipulate it, etc, but i'll be damned if i can handle squirting something in it, let alone when it;s already aggrivated.. lol.. i just bought some visine, but i will look for the yellow label stuff later.. strange that the blister is in lower lid, yet feels like it's scraping the upper part of my eye.. tripple checked the upper.. nothing.. when i hold the lower out, pain kind of goes away.. wierd...

and for the record.. I was wearing EVERYTHING.. lol.. wrap around safety glasses and welding helmet.. all i can figure is one of those little tiny slag balls of steel went flyin when i ground some and bounced around enough to make it around the glasses and into my eye.. just my luck ya know?

oh.. did you have all the light sensetivity issues as well? similar to the welders flash? would make a few people happy to know i didn;t get welders flash in just one eye due to a faulty helmet..

Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 7:07 pm
I've gotten that little bubble too! I actually thing it is caused by dust and not actually metal. It's funny tho, I only get it when welding a lot too.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 7:34 pm
Lemme tell ya.. i welded ALOOOT.. LOOONG hard welds.. welded a thick strap of metal around the A-arm tube where it split on me. So i wanted good penetration, etc, so i cranked it up and did a bunch of long wide welds.. had the darkness level of my helmet cranked all the way to max. plus had safety glasses on too. i don't do jack these days without safety glasses.. have had one piece of metal plucked from my eyeball with a syringe needle by a trained professional.. vowed that was never gonna happen again too. immediately after that, i bought like 8 pairs of safety glasses. 2 pair at work, two pair at home, one in the van and one in the car. and 2 in storage incase something happenes.. btw, who is it that gets to test out the bullet proof safety glasses?


lol
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 12th 2009 8:00 pm
I got you beat on that one. I've had my eyeballs drilled twice for metal in them. I have yet to find a pair of safety glasses that will stay on my face, but I do wear a face shield almost all the time now tho.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 13th 2009 4:49 am
You might notice in most pictures of me I'm wearing large glasses - I'm pretty terrified of stuff getting into my eyes. Used to occasionally have things explode on high energy circuit boards while troubleshooting, and it put the fear of the Almighty into me at a young age!

I have to wonder if you might have had some small jagged particle land in your hair, then fall in behind your mask and goggles from your hairline? I've taken to blowing back across my face with an air nozzle before removing my mask, and again after.

-I really want to *see* all the cool custom vans!!

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 16th 2009 6:17 pm
quick eye update.. went in yesterday afternoon to have it checked. large hunk of metal square, dead center in my pupil. since it was in there since last saturday, possibly friday night, it had started a tiny rust ring too. needless to say, i got the drill.. was great when i left.. then the damn numbing drops wore off.. i was in 10X more agony than when it was in there.. hardly slept last night.. but today, all is well as far as th epain goes.. right now, little blurred in that eye.. ahve to go back today for follow-up.. yay.. least i can NOT be in pain.. been a miserable week.. if thye say it's healing right today, then tonigh we're goin out celebrating.. the miracle that i didn;t F#%K up my eye, and the miracle that 155 people AND THE PLANE, all survived a water landing in the Hudson!!! You can bet that pilot's training business is going to become JAMED up with customers now..
Posted By: Westvan71 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 18th 2009 4:43 am
Great read on your progress with your van. That's a big job ya did! I'm about to do the same thing but on other side of my van soon - at end of this month or Febuary.
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 18th 2009 7:58 am
Whoa... close call (eye and plane).
Posted By: vince Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 18th 2009 8:44 pm
Not sure if this is relevant in this thread but here goes anyway.

3 years ago (I was still at my old job cool). Now I never had any schooling for welding. In fact I did'nt know a mig from a tig or ark.... they had all 3 in the shop so I started figuring them out on my own. Also I read a little on it as well. I welded things at work successfully for a few years, wihtout knowledge of proper safety gear or practices. It took comming home with 'sunburns' on my arms and face for me to realize about what was causing that. So I did use long sleeves and such, but alot of time when mig weldeing especially spot welding I wouldent even put on a hood OR goggles, If it was just a short bead, I would just put the wire on the metal either close my eyes or just turn my head shocked and do a quick spot weld etc... I was basicaly the 'poster child' of horrible welding practices.
Then ... 3 years ago, I was welding a bracket under a friends trailer. I was wearing goggles, and long sleeves (leather) but no head gear. I was laying on the ground on my left side with my right side facing towards the trailer. The weld was going fine then it sparked, popped.... and a piece of slag about the exact size of a BB flew off the weld and landed directly into my ear canal, nothing but net... straight in. The pain was like non I had ever experienced (and I have been hit by a car broke the windshield, rolled over the hood and slamed into the pavement behind the car, so I know a thing or two about pain). I dropped the mig handle, and started yelling, but nothing could be done, the BB was burning its way through my ear canal, ear drum, stirrup, chochlea etc... at the hospitial they removed the BB that had broken into lots of pieces as it cooled... first year I had 2 cochlea ear implants that both became horribly infected. Both times they had to be removed. I lost the hearing in my right ear. It destroyed my 20 year music carrer. And it sucks saying "huh"? every 3 minutes and its quite annoying as well... but.. thats how it is. Fast-forward to now. For the past 4 weeks I've been having terrible pains in my ear and the side of my face. Last Tuesday I went to the Doc and they said the scar tissue has grown completly closed and I have fluid behind it that has become infected! Im trying to get a hold on it right now with anti-biotics, but its not working very quickly, if its not cleared up by Thursday, I will have to have surgery to remove the scar tissue to remove the fluid... etc....

Bottom line, Friends...


Wear all the safety gear you can while welding, or while using any other kind of tool.

Rock on Friends

Vince in So. $ Cal.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 19th 2009 12:57 pm
Damn, Vince. Never really thought of plugging the ears when welding. Sorry to hear about your plight, but good info to keep in mind.

Swim, hope the eye is doing better. I feel your pain BTDT.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 19th 2009 3:48 pm
DAAAMN!!!!!... yep.. screw it.. I'm wearing a motorcycle helmet with a modified autodarkening face.. uugh.. yep.. you can;t seem to wear enough stuff.. i was cringing at the thought of that bb in your ear as i have had one burn completely thru my toe nail as, like you say, poster child for welding safety, I was wearing t-shirt, shorts and SANDALS!!.. lol.. you would have thought after 5 different beads bounced down under my feet between the sandals i would have done something.. nope.. didn;t even feel the bb until it was burned clear thru the toe-nail. then it was like someone hit my foot with a sledge!!..


My eye is comin along.. i ahve to go in today to have the "rust ring" checked out to make sure that's not getting infected. been DUMPING anti-biotics in my eye all weekend. I go in today at 2pm to have the rust checked out.. the metal was a long skinny piece and went in my cornea like a daggar. they got the rust near the surface, but the other is too deep to just drill out. would basicly require a cornea transplant. if it gets infected, that's prob what will happen.



uugh.. man.... reading that ear piece makes my head hurt kind of like when you see a fellow man get railed in the balls... I can;t say how bad i feel for the loss of your music career as i am a HUUUGE fan of music. I dread loosing something like my vision, etc due to something overlooked.. but i guess that's how most things like that happen. I now just h ave to remember to finish gutting the rest of that back side so i don;t finish my welding up just in time to find a fire inside the van too big to take care of myself. My thoughta are with you Vince.. tell us how you make out with the fluid bro!!
Posted By: vince Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 24th 2009 4:30 am
Yea well I saw the Doc yesterday. He looked at my inner ear and said "its a real mess in there Vince" So they have scheduled me for inner ear surgery on Monday morning. They are going to remove all the old scar tissue, remove the fluid, give me mega doses of anti-biotics, as of right now the infection is quite bad.

We shall see I guess.


Rock on Friends

Vince in So. $ Cal.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 24th 2009 7:06 am
Vince, I'm curious; is there any sensation or perceived "sound" when you have your cochlea, etc, removed? I have tinninitis from playing waaaaay too loud in the late 70's and 80's, and taking lots-o aspirin for hangovers after the shows. Bad combination as it turned out.

Tininnitis has been described to me as a breakage/failure of the fine hair cells inside the Cochlea. Since I constantly hear several distinct pitches with presumably just a few cells damaged, does it perhaps sound like a white noise roar, or is it silent if all of them are gone?

Wish you the best; heck of a way to end a musical career. I feel for you.

Clear skies!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 26th 2009 3:08 pm
Best of luck to you Vince in the surgery!
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 26th 2009 3:31 pm
Whoa... I've had a close call like that too... got in behind the helmet.

Good luck you guys... Hopefully warmer weather wilol have everybody back in full stride on the vans!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - January 26th 2009 4:55 pm
I'm on an anti-biotic now that includes a steroid and it has helped ALOT.. the light sensetivity now in bright light is about gone. and the redness is about gone too.. the left over rust is getting cleaned up by the eye itself and is almost gone.. they tell me I dodged a HUGE bullet. I feel fortunate and lucky to have my normal eyesight back.

I hope you have good luck today too Vince!! Keep us posted!!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 05th 2009 7:20 pm
Ok Ok.. everyone's been waiting for updates.. currently, i have very very few. but i did take some pictures recently. Here is the dilema i am getting ready to deal with. the mis-matched panel lines...

[Linked Image]

Yeah.. some of ya are going to look at it and be like.. uuuh.. What the hell are you talkin about? and also, i have one more "spot weld" on that same edge at the very bottom which i never removed.. i'm hoping when i cut it, the panel will drop the small amount i need it to drop. While killing some time one day when it was still warm, i managed to add some filler to the front part of my weld line..

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And lastly, i will show you what nearly cost me my eyeball... lol..

[Linked Image]


This is the bent A-arm
[Linked Image]

This is after the first straightening.
[Linked Image]

This is after the second hit curb and second straightening.. lol

[Linked Image]

And this is what i was doing when i screwed up my eye... I had no choice but to stay up half the night and weld the arm back together as we have to drive the car.. lol..

[Linked Image]

Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 05th 2009 7:32 pm
this is going into my "engine cover".. actually, prob is going to go in place of the radio and center vents on the dash. Already have GPS system, but this will be for weather, information, maybe some MP3's, and various other stuff.

[Linked Image]

Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 05th 2009 7:55 pm
That's cool! Be like in the movie Twister! Just drive where there are no cows flying through the air!

About the panel, what if you put your initial tacks on the body lines and worked outward from there? Maybe your patch has flattened or something, changing the profile. Aligning the profile parts at the beginning may correct that, though it will increase the gaps at the top and bottom...
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 05th 2009 8:10 pm
What i initially did, as can be seen by the drilled holes, was put the sheet up overlapping the original metal. Then used sheet metal screws to secure it. you can tell it took a few tries to get it right. once it was up, (FRIGGIN HEAVY PIECE OF SHEET METAL), i then put a bunch of tack welds up the side and across the top. once i reached my half way point on the top of the panel, i got out the jug saw and finished cutting the two panels to get rid of the overlapped and underlapped metal. this was what i found when i got the panel to sit flush with the other. so either it moved, or the way it laid over the old metal made it a little bit higher. i dunno.. was just aggrivating to discover though.. lol..

AS for my gadget.. lol.. I will have TONS of gadgets in there.. just bought a converted 10 meter radio that covers CB band. I have an ultra long range WIFI antenna that will be on a temporary mounting system. looking to get a satellite dish to mount under the spare tire cover. 15" touch screen LCD monitor for the back computer. Panasonic toughbook for outside use. Overhead 7" touchscreen GPS system, and a bunch of other stuff. lol..
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 05th 2009 8:18 pm
Oooh whee! Sounds awesome!
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 06th 2009 4:08 am
Swimmster, before chopping up your console check your state laws and make sure you can put a display like that in view of the driver. GPS is ok here in Michigan, but most other types of displays are illegal. I'm considering how to implement a backup camera display. It *can* be legal if it switches with the gearshift. I could well envision a "panic" button for a default GPS screen if pulled over...

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 06th 2009 3:19 pm
This unit is specificly geared for vehicle useage. If i read right, it actually has "motion sensing" feature which somewhat disables it while moving. Also has "day/night" auto dimming. I can also wire the screen "off" function to the neutral safety switch so it won;t be "on" while driving. however, I plan to have the GPS or Weather radar software running while driving.

It's amazing how it's legal for a police officer to talk on his cell phone, AND work a computer, all while driving down the road at a high rate of speed, but we can't.. I just htink it should be just like the "No passing on the right" unenforced rule. if you cause an accident while passing onthe right, you can definitely get a ticket for it, but otherwise, they could care less. And with all the cars today with on board navigation and screens that control everything from stereos to in car e-mail, etc.. lol.. well..

I did almost get pulled over years ago driving a 1989 Olds Toronado Trofeo. had a factory 5" sony trinitron display in the dash. radio, day planner, compas, cell phone, HVAC, full blown diagnostics center, many many things on that touch screen. cop came up beside me on the highway one night. rolled down windows, asked if it was a TV.. lol.. said nope, came with the car. lol. he said.. " Oh.. that's cool!" and sped off.. lol.
Posted By: on the road Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 07th 2009 2:04 am
Interesting thread...quite a few "Heebie Jeebie" moments...can you guys please just build your stuff and not continue hurting yourselves?????!
Posted By: jeffnf Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - February 20th 2009 9:28 pm
Van is looking good, but I hope everyone heals from their wounds. If I ever get a welder, I'll make sure I have the proper safety equipment!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 02nd 2009 7:50 pm
wow, finally.. some work done on the van!! I didn't get to do alot, but i got my panel to line up correctly.. seems there was one last small tack weld at the bottom back edge of my panel that i never ground off.. soon as i released it's hold, BOING.. she popped into place.. had to tug on it slightly to get it lined up, but it's there.. I have approx a foot left to weld up the top seem, and a foot left on the bottom of the vertical seem. Was a very busy weekend, so i didn;t get to do a whole lot, but i at least got to do some more welding.. I have a rear wheel arch coming from mill supply. that will complete the sheet metal work for that side anyways. I took a bunch of pictures, but the new phone i have won;t let me transfer to the computer.. Will take more tonight with an actual camera when i get home.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 02nd 2009 8:00 pm
Awesome dude! Great to hear you got it straightened out.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 02nd 2009 9:43 pm
You n me both.. was just a matter of some warm weather, getting the van out and turned around, and getting a good look at everything.. then I saw that last little weld.. bink!! fell right into place.. just a little tug and a tack and presto!! little bit of filler and you'll never know.. lol.. Going air compressor shopping later tonight.. trying to have one this weekend. definitely gonna need one of those to gt this thing finished correctly.. as good as my rocker panel and rear quarter came out, that was all done by hand.. I can't take on this whole thing like that.. nooo way.. course, I could use the damn exercise.. hahaaaaaa!!! Pics tonight hopefully!!

Oh.. and any recommended paint stripping methods? Aircraft stripper would not even TOUCH that copper colored paint on the new panel.. and i'd hate to have to grind it all off with 80 grit.. don;t wanna have to skim the entire side with filler to get out the grinding scratches. course, I bought an in-line sander, but still.. tons of work..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 03rd 2009 11:19 am
A D/A sander will take the paint off with a bit more work with a lesser grit paper. I usually use 220 grit self stick on a 6" D/A just be careful at body lines to cross them on an angle and not straight. You can actually make them look crooked. If you use a grinder with say a 100 or 150 grit paper it will strip it also and not leave too large of scratches. You can fill them with a spray on filler. There are spray able fillers for just that. Once all your body work is done, prime it with a good primer and spray the filler over top and then wet sand smooth.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 3:20 am
YAY.. more updates.. been busy with the warmer weather.. got a bit done.. feeling myself getting back into that groove.. just need to get my compressor here and repaired and i can get busy with the long board sander.. Anyways.. here's a few pics of what i've gotten done so far.

nearly finished welding up the back edge and top.
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Got some tiger hair slathered on and stripped some more paint.. what a mess that paint is.. uising a 24 grit disc and just blasting it off.. it is suprisingly not too harsh on the metal.
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better shot of the paint removal..
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Here's a couple of shots of the visor i got from Hippy Luke. It was painted at some point with white latex house paint. That is how he found it. While waiting for batteries to charge for the grinder, etc, I got bored and decided to start doing something with it finally. I stripped the house paint off which revealed that this poor visor had been arond the block a few times. tons of scratches, gouges and stone chips or something.. this had to be on a hunting van used to chase the deer thru the woods or something like that.. hahaha.. Anyways.. some primer/sealer, some fuller, some primer and some glazing putty and she is on her way to looking like new.

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Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 11:04 am
Wow, you've been busy! Looking great!
Posted By: Beast_Lee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 1:22 pm
yeah
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 1:49 pm
JAMIE,did you get the rest of the parts you needed ? can't wait to see it finished WITHOUT WINDOWS !!
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 1:49 pm
so your replacing ur visor then? kinda like the look with the clearance lights.
where'd you pick that one up?
Vans almost there!!


Smitty
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 11th 2009 3:15 pm
no.. not replacing the visor.. never had one.. I got this one from hippy Luke. been slowly cleaning it up and refinishing it. I had to notch it in the center to clear the center light. And yeah.. I loove the look.

Stan. I tried to meet up with a guy to get swivel seat bases and a nice set of pop-out windows with the chrome trim. Thankfully i had a friend to visit all the way up there, so it wasn't a wasted 3 hour trip, but never heard anything back from the guy. no contact info, nothing. wish he wasn't so far away.. would be nice to have that stuff.
Posted By: hippieluke Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 2:03 am
sorry to hear the visor was that bad under the paint

Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 2:09 am
Hippy, no prob at all.. it was all easy fixin chief!! I enjoy the finishing process, so.. was all fun man.. no worries. :):) no cracks or glass work, so.. it's all good my friend.
Posted By: hippieluke Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 2:19 am
does it fit with the light on the roof or do you have to move them
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 1:21 pm
I notched out the center of the visor to clear the light. I wasn't going to move them.. nooo way.. lol.. I spent 3 hours putting those lights on and making sure they were as far forward as i could put them on that curved piece of metal.. lol. suprisingly, they all cleared except the middle one and one on the end. otherwise, it fits like a glove..
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 4:12 pm
Didn't get to say before, but those panel seams lined up real good swimmster!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 8:39 pm
yeah.. I'm glad everything worked out well on that end.. and i ahve learned that next time i have a complete NICE clean panel, USE THE WHOLE DAMN THING!!! hahaha... thinking i was saving myself some extra work, but had i examined the whole thing much closer, i could have gotten away with just re-spot welding the panel in and cleaning up the door seams with seam sealer and then just sand it and paint it. instead, I screwed myself by jumping the gun and rushing into the project and had to spend all that time welding the two panels together and then filling it and now comes the sanding and finishing.. granted, it's my favorite part, but, I did also go into this for the learning experience.. and yep.. i learned a TON.. So i guess it's not so bad.. also, the finishing stage is my favorite part, so.. the fun is now beginning..

Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 8:46 pm
I AIN'T GONNA SAY I TOLD YOU SO - BUT - I TOLD YOU SO !!!
Posted By: mugsy Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 10:37 pm
i doubt he regrets it tho
Posted By: chevyvan93 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 12th 2009 11:24 pm
Swimmster the van is looking great and like Sasktrini said them panels turned out great, Are you ready for my chevy I will bring the beer hahahaha
Posted By: NateB Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 13th 2009 11:08 am
I just now am reading this thread. Great job Swimmster..you do very nice work.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 13th 2009 12:45 pm
haha.. Stan, I will have ya come out and help me do the grille change over.. hahahaa.. yeah.. You did tell me.. I'm stubborn.. and also shouldn't have listened to my other supposed bodyman friend. he had been telling me for years.. " yeah, just cut it here, or cut it there and weld it here and weld it there.. it'll be great!!".. yeah.. no prob dude.. I noticed that all the cars he says he built for the Syracuse Natinoals, etc he has NO pictures of.. Ahhhhh well.. least it's turnin out ok.. and i know how to weld sheet metal ALOOOT better than i did before..


And thanks everyone else for the compliments and motivation and without Stan's graciousness, this thing would be a bondo rot box still and I woul d have prob had a for-sale sign on it.
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 13th 2009 1:46 pm
JAMIE,the headlamp panels are here waitin for yah !!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 13th 2009 2:42 pm
sweeet.. need to get out there again.. hey, did you by chance save that paanel that goes over the radiator that the grille attaches to? I don;t think I grabbed that.. think i just got all the small metal pieces from around the headlights.
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 13th 2009 3:05 pm
got that too - saved everything we stripped off it so far !!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 3:38 am
Ooooooooh Kaaaay.. more updates.. Stan will be proud.. lolol..

this is all i did aaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll weekend, so you guyys should be happy with me.. I got a somewhat new 60 galloncompressor so i could finally use my air board sander.. well, I beat the snot out of that poor sander all weekend long.. here are pics of what i have completed as of 10pm this evening. I ahve only done to just below the belt line because i have to do the rocker and wheel arch still.

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Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 4:14 am
Congrats on the new "toy", and gettin all that great work done!
Posted By: hippieluke Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 4:32 am
looks good
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 4:44 am
looks realll good, that thing looks great as a panel. You gonna do the other side?
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 12:52 pm
YEs.. will definitely do the other side.. not entirely sure when though.. lol.. been very anxious to be out driving it, so when this side is done and the rockers are on and it's painted, i may drive it for the season and do the other side this winter.. depends on how motivated i end up getting.. lol..
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 1:03 pm
Looks great..gotta love air tools make snappy work out of big projects...
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 1:08 pm
WELL.Another couple of weekends away from the wife and you'll be done !! i like it - no windows !
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 7:55 pm
alrite went back to 1st post so deleted this one... i bet the pass side will be FUN to do.
are u gonna have panel barn doors too? shouldnt be to hard to fix those winders.


Smitty
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 8:43 pm
haha.. no.. i'm gonna leave the side door windows.. just switch the other one to a pop-out also. i want the backs to be pop outs too.. was in the process of getting a complete set with all the chrome trim, etc, but never heard from the guy again.. those and a set of swivel seat bases.. sucks.. would have bbeen nice to have since they were made for my seats and he had two specificly for front seats.
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 9:18 pm
hmmmm... mmm. anyway two get some pop outs from TN to u? i could possibly get them to NJ.... possibly.
lol


Smitty
Posted By: NateB Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 9:31 pm
Wow..that looks great Swimmster!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 23rd 2009 9:41 pm
that's right!! i keep forgetting you have those.. and Stan has a couple swivels i might be able to use too.. man i can;t wait to see this thing in paint!! it;s real cold here today, so.. i dunno what i will get done. garage is not exactly heated and i don't want to run the BBQ grill in there with sanding dust flyin around. i have seen dust explosions before.. NOOOT pretty..
Posted By: Beast_Lee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 25th 2009 3:49 pm
This has been an enjoyable thread, watching the progress on your van... It's lookin' real good... Smart move with not using the BBQ for heat...
Posted By: AlbertaG20 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 25th 2009 11:10 pm
looks good cant wait till i see the final product
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 27th 2009 6:15 am
Are you going back with the factory White paint?

......Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 27th 2009 8:12 pm
yes.. sticking with the white cause it's cheap and for now, i won;t have to repaint the entire thing. going to also finish the blue stripe down the belt line. will have subtle gold pintstripes on both sides of stripe. eventually, more stripes.. degigns, etc.. we'll see.. lol..
Posted By: jeffnf Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - March 31st 2009 5:48 pm
Nice progress.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 19th 2009 5:10 pm
OK, so I found this rear wing.. actually I found it 6 years ago on my 86 trans am.. it looked like hell on there so i took it off.. so anyways,was toyin around with it and, hindsight being 20/20, i should have cut it in the middle.. REASON i did not was because the middle pillars would have hit the roof lights and i wanted everything to look evenly spaced out. now that I have it sort of how i would like it to be on here, I have to put this thing back together.. I have never built anything out of fiberglass before.. Any thoughts on getting this back together correctly? I had to grind out the mounting points on the bottoms of both sides to get them to contour to the roof line.. I was planning on using some sheet metal from the old roof section i got my panels from and cutting them to the same size as the base of each side, then glassing them into the bottom.. probably welding mounting nuts to their backside to bolt it to the roof. I woulod even consider someone local to pay to redo this. I have a bunch of fiber glass here, etc.. I could have gone with a norcal wing, but i really like the way this looks on here. thanks in advance for any pointers or tips..


[Linked Image]

Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 12:20 am
looks nice... but need more pics



Smitty
Posted By: stevanner Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 1:31 am
Here's an idea. I know it sounds weird but then I'm... How about flipping the ends upside down and glassing them back in place. They'll clear your lights and the wing will actually look like a wing. Be careful with this idea as the van my fly away at some point. Suggest making a sleeve of some sort to rejoin the ends to the middle

Note: When you mount your center supports be sure and put significant support on the inside of the van or the roofskin will want to pop outwards.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 2:32 am
Thanks for the info.. I am hoping to do the sheet metal insert inside the bottoms so it conforms to the roof metal and i can either attach it from inside using sheet metal screws or some bolts with large curved fender washers or something. course, the prerequisit foam tape will be in between them..

the way i have it set up, it is actually sort of tilted down and would act like a down force style wing. fairly mild downward angle. Also, I did once think about just cutting the ends off completely and capping them, then extending it in the middle.. but now that i have the turn-downs shaped about right, i think I really like it.. I took some more pics.. will add them shortly. just have a stick running thru it to hold the pieces up for now. I had a suggestion of making filler out of expanding foam, them just wrapping it with plastic, then layering on the glass, extending it out over the rest of the spoiler. I might be able to figure that one out on my own.. who knows.. always up for a challenge.. lol..
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 11:13 am
OK.. Here's a few more pics of the spoiler up close with somme of what i am talkin about and spots where i have to rebuild..


Don't mind the angle of the end piece on this photo.. It moved on me while i was shiftin things around.. It;ll all end up nice and straight.. lol
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Here's one for Hippy Luke of the visor I got from him...

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Posted By: Beast_Lee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 2:29 pm
Great lookin' wing...
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 3:11 pm
I like the wing! Monica is the person to ask for advice on glassing. If it were me, I'd use some wooden dowels to make framework from and glass them inside the wing with it bolted in place, then run cloth mat over the dowels and resin. Fill and sand and your good to go.
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 4:10 pm
looks good. id do what ken said about doing wooden dowls and glassing around that.
such a messy process.. but soo fun smile
visor looks great too!


Smitty
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 4:10 pm
niiice.. dowels.. I can get those.. lol.. Just wanna wrap it and not have it look like crap.. lol.. I will have to get busy on the bases to get it to bolt down evenly..I will try to get ahold of her too.. and yeah.. I love the way the wing looks..
Posted By: Wizard78 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 5:02 pm
Looks good
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 7:02 pm
Custom built to fit in your garage.......

........Wookee
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 20th 2009 8:41 pm
haaaaahahaha.. yeah.. lol.. actually, it just happened to work out to be PERFECT height.. but not for the door.. i will ahve to deflate the back tires a little to get it to clear the door. lololol.. that part of the ceiling houses all the air ducts for that end of the house.. why they built it like that is beyond me, but the house is mostly all original from the 60's, so.. Believe me.. i want to remove it and run the ducts smaller and around the back wall of the garage.. course, there's an I-beam too which is just as low.. :(:(
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 23rd 2009 2:27 am
Ok, so, upon tryin to line up the new rocker panel, I realized that when we cut this panel off the old van, I was not thinking about where it met the new rocker panel.. I ended up with between 1/4" and 3/4" gaps all along the joint. I had not put the floor pieces in yet as i was not motivated enough to start cutting up the floor section i got from Stan.. then it hit me.. Since i had the lower section of the same side panel, It occured to me i was going to have to weld back together that original cut we made trying to get the side panel off. It's comin along i guess.. I'm gettin tired of welding.. lolol..


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Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 23rd 2009 11:26 am
Sweet! Your getting there. Sucks when the damn thing is too short lol
Posted By: Beast_Lee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 23rd 2009 6:41 pm
yeah BTDT...
Posted By: Mr_Sheltie Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 26th 2009 12:18 am


You are doing great work there!
My Ford is next???
Posted By: on the road Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - April 26th 2009 12:32 am
Nice...I like the wing! Like Ken said...wooden dowels...broomstick size maybe? Or even conduit. Fill the conduit with expandable foam. You should be able to build up the gaps with foam, then glas cloth over that...Is the wing hollow?
Posted By: jeffnf Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 01st 2009 3:19 pm
Nice progress on the side panel.
Posted By: 4xvanman Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 01st 2009 3:33 pm
the spray foam idea is great. its strong and can be trimmed down. then wrap with glass. you can shape the foam easily. van shift
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 07th 2009 6:18 pm
Swimmster, when you use those spot weld cutting bits, how may RPMs do you run your drill at? About how many welds does a bit last for? Do you ever use any cutting oil with them?

I'm seriously considering following your lead in a couple of weeks by pulling at least the lower rocker rail off of the side of a van by drilling the spot welds, but I don't want to kill all my cutting bits and be stuck in the junkyard halfway through the project!

My single-speed Milwaukee drill does nothing but kill twist drill bits due to excessive RPMs... what were they thinking? My strong suspicion is that the same RPM constraints apply to the spot weld cutting bits. I have some slower Craftsman drills I could use...

Clear skies!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 07th 2009 6:37 pm
I use a 'BLAIR' tool. It lasts pretty well. Metal should be drilled or cut at low speeds. I don't use a lubricant on mine, but it prolly wouldn't hurt. You can prolly drill about 30 to 50 welds with a bit.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 07th 2009 8:14 pm
Thanks Superbeast! I've got 5 bits, so I should be in good shape if I use my Grandfather's old giant drill... it's slow and sweet!

[Linked Image]

(those are 6" tiles...)

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 08th 2009 2:08 am
Blair's are the best.. i bought one shank and a pack of 3 cutters. still have not touched the third one yet..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 08th 2009 1:04 pm
Ram, that is going to get heavy pretty fast. It may be a good choice for speed, but you will feel like Popeye by the time you drill out 10 or so welds. I like to use my cordless with variable speeds.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 09th 2009 4:52 am
Hey, it's great to hear a cordless might work... I just bought a new 18 volt variable speed cordless with a two speed gearbox last night. I'll take it along and see how it works. Maybe I can get my Son on board and have both of us drilling!

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 09th 2009 10:28 pm
I've been using a cordless DeWalt 18v 3 speed drill.. i use 2 and 3 most often. It's not too heavy.. It could be lighter, but it gets the job done efficiently enough.
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 10th 2009 8:09 am
This is awesome! Looks like I got just the right tools for the job!

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Now if only I wouldn't have had to buy an $$ air-chisel mounted pickle fork set to separate my van's insanely stuck drag link earlier today...

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That's thrown my junkyard-shopping budget off by a couple more weeks than anticipated...

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I'll do a bit more studying up on what I can do to make the process go as successfully as possible. I'm really looking forward to trying out all the cool stuff you guys developed!

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 11th 2009 2:20 am
Just remember, if you;re changing the whole side, or better yet, if you can find a good cargo side, GET IT!!! learn from my mistakes and realize how LITTLE work is really involved with changing out the whole side.. if you cut ALL the spot welds, the only cut is the bottom.. drill the spot welds at the bottom at the floor line, then cut the panel off below the line.. this will be the only seam you have to weld back together and have to actually do body work. all your other welds will be inside of door jambs and the top welds are inside the van.. refill your spot welds and zap it with seam sealer inside and out and you;re DONE!!.. unlike the crap i did which is STILL not done and i;m having to piece together anyways..

Next time....... haha
Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 11th 2009 8:04 am
Swimmster, all the work you've done has made quite an impression! Thanks for the great advice too.

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I was thinking you actually took the panel all the way down to the spot welds along the bottom flange of the rocker panel... I guess not! I'll have to re-read the thread again...

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I'd been intending to replace the driver side rocker panel and maybe the wheel arch if it needs it. I've already got those pieces... So, if I do what you just said, and actually cut off about 1-1/2" below the floor line, I could clamp the bottom of the panel to the floor flange and tack weld it down. The extra metal left below the floor line would leave me enough room to run my flanging tool, so I could use my body panel adhesive and countersunk rivets on the rocker...

I'll probably just cut straight down the metal next to the door jam, rather than drilling it; I won't need the door jam, as I intend to keep the conversion window that's immediately behind the driver's seat... it makes backing up the maxi *so* much easier! I'll take the rest of the panel clear back to the rear corner panel seam if I can get it.

I bet it'll blow the salvage yard owner's mind when he sees us come out carrying that huge panel!

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I know he'll get a charge out of seeing my van when I drive it up to carry the panel; he's shown considerable interest and has extended me quite a bit of support.

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I'm really looking forward to finally getting this metal work done; then I can finally mount the flares, visor and do the desperately needed body paint!

Now that the weather's good there's *so* much to do!!

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Thanks again!

Clear skies!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - May 13th 2009 12:23 am
trust me.. take the panel inside the door edge.. it'll be so much easier to recut the window hole than to weld up a seam... i wish i had bought the flange tool. lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 2:52 am
OK, so.. been busy last few days.. learned a new finishing trick using a paint stick.. never thought i could get a panel so smooth.. once I was shown this trick, it was all over.. After spending 3 days and redoing the panel filler THREE times and trying and trying to get it sanded smooth with a long board air sander, it was just NOT getting smooth and flat.. after being shown how to use a mere paint stick and some 40 grit thru 100 grit paper, I had it flat amd smooth and perfectly contoured in a little over an HOUR!!!!!!!!!!


So.. have been busy this weekend.. this is the only work i hae done since the last photo other than this bad ass steeringwheel i found in the salvage yard. just need to find a center horn button for it.


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Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 4:30 pm
Looks awesome!!!
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 4:41 pm
Looks great..nice work..cool steering wheel as well...
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 4:49 pm
poor van... gets naked... then dressed up.... adds a lil makeup... but yet you didnt pamper her? look at that dust on the inside... tisk tisk.
rofl
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 5:22 pm
Looks great buddy!

How about elaborating on the paint stick deal for those wanting to know?
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 01st 2009 9:57 pm
haha.. the dust is from all the sanding and work.. it'll all clean up.. all the wood on the dash and passenger side door have all been refinished not too long ago. Actually, right before i started to take care of the little rust problem. soon as i get the body work done, the inside will be absolutely georgous. my ole man is an amazing wood worker and is going to help me on the cabinets, etc.. have all new carpet coming, etc..


the paint stick deal is to either glue or wrap 40 grit strip of sand paper to a paint stick. use this much like you would use a "cheese" file to get your filler into shape. sanding filler next to bare metal will leave a distinct "bump" because the filler sands more than the metal. once you have gone thru the stages of sanding grits to say 100 grit, you can lay on the filler primer. lay it thick over the space where the filler and bare metal meet. once you have a few good coats of filler primer on, wrap your paint stick again with 100 grit. if you use a good florecent shop light or have a cieling light that you can see the reflection of it in, you will not need any "guide coat" for this. the paint stick is flexible enough for most broad contours . hold it at both ends and move it up and down on an angle. move it in "X" style strokes. watch the reflectoin and you will see all the distinct areas that are low. Sand until these areas go away. if they are pretty deep, shoot another layer or 2 of filler primer to bring them up. repeat until it's all smooth.. I used the fast drying spray can filler primer, so yes, from the time i mixed the new fresh filler, to the time i stopped sanding the last coat of primer, was a mere 1 hour's time. it was AWESOME!!! I spent sooo much time before this trying and trying to get that back corner to look smooth and not like someone did obvious body work there. This trick did UNBELIEVABLE work on the belt line contours as well making them PERFECTLY straight.. was having a hell of a time with that part too.. tried blocks, rolled up paper, etc.. the paint stick fixed it all.. and a hand full of paint sticks are FREE too!!!.. lol.. let me know if any of you want to see pics of this operation in action..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 02nd 2009 11:25 am
Cool! I thought what you were talking about was cutting the paint stick to the contour of the body line to use as a bondo spreader. Your trick is great too tho.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 02nd 2009 8:23 pm
wish i could take credit for the trick, but I can't.. but OMG it is fantastic!!! I installed one of the extra gas doors last night too.. got the welding done. now gotta grind and finish.. would have had pics, but camera charger got left in rochester.
Posted By: luna Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 03rd 2009 10:29 am
i would love to see pics if possible
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 03rd 2009 12:01 pm
[Linked Image]

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I had thought for a while about what kind of electrical outlet to put in this hole until I stumbled back onto my old reel style drop light. I am now going to mount the reel inside and put a plug in place of the light housing. open the door, pull the plug to the nearest outlet and poof!.. electrical power!!

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Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 03rd 2009 12:16 pm
Very nice..I like your idea of using cord reel...
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 06th 2009 2:43 pm
added some "rough-in" filler.. it's just about smooth and contoured enough for the finish filler and primer. course, i still gotta fill in that hole at the wheel well. i have an idea though.. lol..

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forgot to add some shots of how the belt lines were turning out and the side..

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Posted By: hippieluke Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 08th 2009 2:54 am
looks good hows that wing coming
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 08th 2009 2:22 pm
wing is waiting in the wings.. lol.. need to get this body buttoned up and get this van on the ROAD!!hoping the next week or two she will have plates again!!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 08th 2009 4:33 pm
Looks really good. That is a lot of hard work keeping such a big panel straight. You seem to have it down though.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 08th 2009 4:36 pm
I gotta tell ya Supe... It's been quite the challenge for sure. Gotta post more pics tonight.. got a LOT done.. gas door addition is nearly finished.. and the wheel arch is almost ready for filler and finishing.. tired of missing evants.. especially the last few LOCAL ones!!.... should be on the road next week.. finished or not!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 09th 2009 3:37 am
OK.. some more pics from this weekend..

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Fun with sanding dust...lol
also in this pic is the new old stock wind deflector i found locally on craigslist. guy has had it for 15 years. never once installed. it's got some minor scratches which will buff out.
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the sacraficial shop light.. can't wait to plug it in at a truck in.. just pull the cord out and plug it in.. SWEET!!
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Keep in mind.. this interior is currently VEEERY much rough and keeps getting tossed together for ideas.. already have a different idea now for the cabinet.. made 2 of those little doors.. can't find the 2nd one at the moment.
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Anyone know where i can find butane cans for this little camp stove???
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Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 09th 2009 6:11 am
I can't read the brand on yours, but I get Coleman camp stove cylinders at Wal-Mart in the camping section.

Clear skies!
Posted By: vanticipation Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 09th 2009 6:47 am
man,you are just going to town on that van....very cool.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 09th 2009 11:06 am
yeah man.. Been on a roll lately.. dunno where the motivation came from, but it's got me good..

the stove runs on butane. can;t use the green cylinders. course, i got the stove dirt cheap.. prob cause you can;t get the cylinders anymore.. lol.. eventually, i'll have one of the fitted propane RVish cylinders installed under the floor.. then i'll just get a propane stove. we'll se... it's comin laong though..
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 09th 2009 11:57 am
Looking really nice swimster....
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 10th 2009 3:08 am
couple more pics of some other stuff i've been workin on...

Wheel arch nearing completion

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BRAND NEW sacraficial battery charger for on-board marine batteries..

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modified the drink tray over the engine cover to house my "radio"

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Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 10th 2009 3:33 am
Great stuff! Amazing!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 10th 2009 12:58 pm
Your getting there! Looks like you'll be in good shape to make it to the Nats.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 15th 2009 1:08 am
pulled it outta the garage and washed the months of dust off.. took some outdoors pics to keep the motivation up with all the accessories installed..

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Certainly, I am not the only one who has thought of this.. but i like it.. gonna make some polished aluminum bezels to go around these..
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Posted By: ridindirty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 15th 2009 1:22 am
Its deffinetly gettin there. Looks good!
Posted By: wookee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 15th 2009 1:20 pm
Nice progress looks very nice.
A late modle "display van".....Sorta....
Looks nice.

........Wookee
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 15th 2009 2:06 pm
Looking good..bet the van was happy to shake all that dust smile
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 15th 2009 3:06 pm
i just can't wait to get the outside done so i can start on the inside. i ripped up some more of the rear carpet and the rest of the inner side panel at the rear and i found LOOTS more rust.. well, not lots, but big holes over the rear of both leaf spring perches.. gonna need some more floor patches.. lol.. I need to find the truck parts web page as they sell corogated sheet metal sections for repairing truck beds. I think, just for the summer, i'm just going to lay down the 1/2" plywood and carpet just so i can use this thing this year.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 3:38 am
playin with paint and some left over pin stripes tonight.. i think i may be on to something.. lol..

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Posted By: Ram4ever Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 9:01 am
Hey, that's some mighty fine playin' Swimmster - I like it!

Clear skies!
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 11:59 am
Originally Posted by Ram4ever
Hey, that's some mighty fine playin' Swimmster - I like it!

Clear skies!
yeah

That looks really sharp! I like it too
Posted By: vanatic05 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 11:59 am
Wow..I really like that stripe..very cool..
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 9:51 pm
She's gettin there, keep up the good work!
Posted By: Beast_Lee Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 18th 2009 9:55 pm
Lookin' real good...
Posted By: KnockKnock Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 19th 2009 9:38 pm
Originally Posted by vanatic05
Wow..I really like that stripe..very cool..
yeah
Posted By: matchstickBGV Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 20th 2009 12:07 am
Yeah I also dig the stripe, very cool.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 20th 2009 7:38 pm
This is the thing i LOOOOVE about dinkin with my van.. soooo many different things to make and work with.. I just wish i had a machine shop so i didn;t have to spend 2 hours carving these things outta stainless steel.. lol.. i've made ONE so far..

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Posted By: SixShot Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 20th 2009 7:47 pm
Well get another drink and make some more lol
Looking good bow
Oh Dinkin,I thought you said Drinking rofl
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 21st 2009 3:23 am
put some paint around it.. and kinda polished it.. had to straighten it as the buffer grabbed it once and flung it into my chest.. lolol.. i hate sharp edges and buffers.. lolol..

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little more paint.. WAS going to do similar design on the hood that i did on the side.. i screwed it up though.. don;t paint when it;s super humid.. lol.. paint tends to NOT stick well.. needless to say, I painted over it and am gonna try something just int he center..

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Posted By: vervepipes Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 21st 2009 4:03 am
looks good, keep it up and keep with the pictures, armourers like pictures better than words lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 21st 2009 2:41 pm
here's more on the sacraficial batt. charger... more stainless steel cutting..

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Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 23rd 2009 4:41 pm
Paint and lite bezel looks awesome!
Posted By: Galaxy Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 23rd 2009 4:49 pm
Cool man, I like how you got the marker lights mounted behind the panel. Something different, Nice covers to! maybe you want to leave them polished and just clear coat them.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 3:06 am
Yes, def plan to leave them polished. if i can manage to do it and not have one flung into my chest and take me out forever.. lolol.. need to get them to work on the slower speed buffer.. i have an old high speed bench grinder with buffing wheels on it. it likes to grab sharp edges an aweful lot.. lol..

Anyways, got it registered today and on the road. workin out a couple of bugs. had a wheel with loose lugnuts and the brake drum was scraping cause of some rust.

got the inside mostly gutted and ready to start on the interior.

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just a shot of it out of the garage... need more white paint!!!..lol

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Posted By: Dodges 3 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 3:23 am
Originally Posted by swimmster
playin with paint and some left over pin stripes tonight.. i think i may be on to something.. lol..

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WOW. That looks awesome. The whole van is looking great. Keep up the amazing work.
Posted By: Blue77 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 3:29 am
is it me? or did you use some of that white paint on the front inner rims??? angel
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 4:03 am
correct blue77.. thinkin bout some blue in there somewhere too..
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 11:12 am
Dude, I just noticed, you need to put some ribs in there.
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 11:42 am
what kinda ribs in where? lol.. the wheels?
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 12:51 pm
Maybe it's an old picture, but the one above has no ribs behind the panel you replaced. Don't want to tweak that sweet new panel you put on.
Posted By: SFS60 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 1:19 pm
i know he's got a least 2 or 3 ribs ,maybe more if he does'nt use the pannenger side panel i gave him !
Posted By: sasktrini Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 1:45 pm
That looks awesome! Wasn't too long ago that it was completely apart!
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - June 24th 2009 3:35 pm
aaah.. yes yes.. I have all the ribs.. I have to straighten a couple of tabs and clean up the floor spots and get them welded back in.. they were actually in there right before i took the pic.. Was out driving it and they were sorta falling, so i took them out when i cleaned it out.. other side is not happening until winter hits!! lol
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - July 30th 2009 2:49 am
Anyone ever seen one of these used as a roof vent? thinking about scoring one.. Yeah, I've restored several 2nd gen trans ams on the past and these scoops are getting harder to come by, but you can get a deal on one some knob butchered which is my plan.. What do ya all think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/70-8...item2555a93d3e&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
Posted By: steelvan Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - July 30th 2009 8:20 pm
wow..just read the entire thread...AMAZING work!!

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Posted By: That_Guy Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - July 31st 2009 8:46 pm
Originally Posted by steelvan
wow..just read the entire thread...AMAZING work!!

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yeah yeah yeah bow
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 03rd 2009 2:36 pm
Ok, so this goes away from all the body work and such, but this is what i did in just ONE week of vacation time with hand tools and a cordless drill.. hahahaha.. i'm gonna have to invest in some more tools if i take on another van project like this one.. lol..

Here's my bed platform.. and as thin as it looks, this will support 600 lbs. I had to move TWO 12 inch powermatic jointers with this platform installed.. we turned the machines ont heir sides and shoved them in.. combined weight of actually 720 lbs. 360 each. I have a huge air mattress folded up under the platform with built in pump for inflating and deflating.
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Here's the cabinet.. It's getting closer. have some nice oak trim for it. recycling the old material off the old van wall to use in the centers of all the cabinet doors.
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Heere's the new entertainment system i got from my ole man. This thing will do everything. built in INCREDIBLY accurate GPS, XM/Serius interface, XM traffic, TV, many audio and video inputs, backup cam, the woorks.. ps: will replace this picture with a better one.. clearly poor lighting.. sorry..
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New carpet goin in.. Wish i knew someone with a carpet steamer former thingy. Wrapping the doghouse is, well, embarassing.. course the loop, office grade cheap carpet probb not helping with cutting it and making it line back up, etc.. any suggestions? anyone? lol
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Posted By: NateB Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 03rd 2009 8:17 pm
Looks good Swimmster! Instead of carpeet, why not go with one of those pre-formed vinyl doohickeys?
Posted By: NJvanner68 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 04th 2009 12:53 am
Originally Posted by steelvan
wow..just read the entire thread...AMAZING work!!

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Could not help it but you posted at the best time of the day
Posted By: newkirkinc1 Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 04th 2009 10:29 am
That looks great,nice work.
Posted By: Superbeast Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 04th 2009 1:22 pm
Dude, I think it's looking great! You are really coming along nicely.

Don't know much about carpet, but send a PM to YUX, I believe he is a pro.
Posted By: Snotty Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 04th 2009 7:59 pm
He IS, been doing carpet for 30+ years! Shoot him a PM he'll tell ya how to go about all the weird angles...
Posted By: Aiko Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - August 20th 2009 11:00 pm
WOW! I just read entire post and am impressed, GREAT WORK,thanks for sharing.
Posted By: vervepipes Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 12th 2009 9:06 pm
any updates?
Posted By: josh_performanceinc Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 12th 2009 9:26 pm
verve... swimmster finished the one side and it looks great! I saw him [it] at Keystone this year. But he's put the other side on hold for now, he's got some family issues lately. linky here frown
Posted By: swimmster Re: Major G-20 Body overhaul - December 14th 2009 3:31 am
yeah buuuuddy... I doubt i will get to the other side.. I hope i don't have to scrap that side panel. I still ahve a few months here in this house, so who knows what's gonna get done on it. still gotta put the swivels in.. and my lights from Joshvan. I need to rip out the inside again and put in a ton of insulation.. just for this winter.. lookin like it may be home for at least a small portion of cold time.. we'll see what happens.. i have temp storage for alot of things, so who knows... wish i could be workin on it.. hav emy subaru outback tyin up the garage waiting for me to put the new transmission back in it..... man.. if it ain;t one thing...
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