Thinking of rebuilding the front end and my buddy was certified to do these in the past so he is gonna help or do most the work for me. Once done we plan to instantly go get it aligned. Trying to think of what parts I should replace when we are in there. Here is a list he sent me:
inner & outer left & right tie rod ends, upper & lower left & right ball joints, pitman arm (questionable), steering crosslink, then upper & lower left & right control arm bushings.

Does this list look reasonable? is there anything else we should just do while we have it tore apart? I was thinking of ordering this:

http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-3438-220-dodge-12-34-ton-van-2wd-1969-00.aspx

They also mention to do the shocks while you are in there.

If your '78 is the same as my '89 the pitman arm has no parts to wear out. It is the Drag link which connects to the pitman arm that has the parts which can wear out and become sloppy.
The steering cross link is usually referred to as the center link on Dodge's.
The Idler arms are also known slop points.

Changing the shocks will be easier, but it is not hard to do anytime, unless of course the nuts are frozen, or stripped.

If you do order a kit, first go in and see if you have threaded ball joints, or press in. Mine has threaded up top, and press in on the bottom, but this varies with model and year.
Threaded ball joints have 4 flats on them. Press fits are round.

You might as well do the Strut rod bushings and sway bar links while you are there and ordering parts.

It's s good Idea to jack it up, remove the wheels and with multiple brass wire detail brushes and brake Kleen or similar solvent (and catch tray) to clean up all the parts which need to be removed and replaced before the parts/tools and friend arrive. Them hit all the parts with PB blaster or another penetrating oil. Your friend will thank you, and you might not have to go searching junk yards for new strut rods, or spend time cutting off or pressing out stripped or broken bolts.

Definitely replace the strut arm bushings like Wrcsixeight said!

If you're going to all that trouble, I'd definitely replace the flexible brake lines and I'd also consider replacing the coil spring isolator pads, which go on top of the coil springs. They were about $15 each from Mopar when I bought mine. I'd also pull the rotors and inspect and relubricate the bearings. New rotors would cost maybe $55 each... if you have drums I'm not sure what new ones cost.

It might be too expensive and miserable in terms of cost and labor, even with a competent friend in on it, to individually replace some of those parts you listed.

You can very easily obtain brand new upper and lower control arms which will come complete with new bushings, pivot bars and ball joints, already mounted for you. This also provides you with all new metal, so rust and metal fatigue issues are removed from the equation. (My '79 had an upper control arm snap in half!! -Fortunately it was while backing into a parking spot, rather than while tooling down the freeway!)

www.rockauto.com lists the complete control arms, and any of your auto parts chains can get them as well.





You might want to be sure that you get greaseable tie rod ends; many of them aren't.

Clear skies!

Thanks for all this info. I am kind of just gathering it all up and showing him since he is the one who knows what he is doing. I do not want any snapping while driving down the freeway:)

I can't seem to find the complete control arm on the site. Were you able to find it for the 78? if so could you send the part number. Maybe I am looking in the wrong section?

I Also am over due for some major front suspension work, and have looked at the Chinese Dorman replacement control arms.

Then I read how some shops cannot achieve a good alignment after installing them, and the preinstalled ball joints appear to be of dubious quality without grease nipples.

Since I still have intentions of one day driving back into Mexico, and giving the suspension a workout, the ball joints alone will have me buying Moog, and taking the extra time and effort to install them in freshly inspected and painted OEM control arms with new bushings.

I am also getting new springs as mine are very tired. Here is a link to coil spring isolators.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raf...artnum=K160037&a=FR11-K160037-485080
Since your buddy will be doing most of the work, perhaps you could be the cameraman, and do a Pictoral? hint hint (:>)

I cannot seem to post emoticons in google chrome

I just checked and I agree, they don't list the complete arms for the 1978 or earlier B200. Sorry about that. They do list them for mine; the 81 B250, and even for the 79 B200. I checked Autozone too, and don't see the 78 and earlier listed there either. This may require waiting for some of the folks to get back from the Nats to see if they've observed any actual difference between the control arms.

I do have an original 78-81 Mopar light truck parts catalog I could poke around in and see what Mopar part numbers come up, and if any of them match, but I was just paged and have to run out to do an emergency repair, so that will have to wait for later tonight.

Clear skies!

I got all excited about that and did not find them for mid's either. It would have been nice not going to the machine shop (or buying a press) and having it just be a quick r&r. Now I'll be tempted to blast and powder coat them and that will add to the total down time. Oh well.

I'm guessing that the difference might be in the ball joint and not the arm. I'm no dodge expert but this would happen all the time on the GM's. If this is the case, you could buy the later model complete arms, and get some junkyard spindles. I may be totally off on this, but it might be worth looking into.

The differences that you will find in the lower control arms of the pre-78 and the 79+ models are as follows by my experience:
pre-78 keeps the spring on TOP of the control arm while the later ones have the "pocket" that the spring sits in.
The later ones also have about a 1" steeper angle from the pivot to pocket area than the older ones have...
By using a post 79 pocketed lower controll arm on your 78 (which shares the earlier model arms), you would have to re-drill the holes for the stut rod and find your van 3" lower than it was before and an extremely difficult time trying to align out the negative camber that comes with it.
BTW, Make sure you replace your idler arms while you are in there as it will help you tremendously....

Oh well. It was only a guess.

Here you can see the arm that is under my '77 (same as yours) and compare to the one pictured earlier to see the difference for anyone that is curious...

Thanks so much for jumping in Natural_State!

You know, I could never figure out what you were saying about the pocketed lower control arms because I couldn't find anything that didn't look exactly like my '81. I'd been thinking it was the B3 series that had the pockets. Looking at my parts catalog and your pictures now I see it; the deal is that *all* of the post-78's were pocketed, and anything '78 and before was flat on top. No wonder I never saw saw any non-pocketed ones; all the vans in the yards around here were newer than my '81.

Anyway, I got back home and did some research in my 78-81 parts manual. Here's what I came up with. Note that these Mopar numbers are *only* for B2 series vans with 5-lug wheels; I excluded the B1 and B3 series vans, and the H.D. package versions, and the 8-lug wheels.

1978 Mopar#
Upper control arm 3492122-3
Upper cont arm Cam bolt pkg 2808445
Upper cont arm Ball joint 2808394
Upper cont arm Bushings 2269124
coil spring isolator 4039136
spring -several, ranging from 1340-1615 pounds
lower control arm 3492126-7
lower cont arm ball joint 3837088
lower cont arm bushing 2961123
strut arm bushing 4037659

1979 - 1981 Mopar#
Upper control arm 3300 lb 4210872-3
Upper cont arm Ball joint 2808394
Upper cont arm Bushings 4213118 superseded by 52106434
coil spring isolator 4089580 superseded by 52038732
spring -several, ranging from 1250 to 1650 pounds
lower control arm 4210584-5
lower control arm (complete) 4164464-5
lower cont arm ball joint 3837088
lower cont arm bushing 4046569 superseded by 52007092
strut arm bushing, front 3898896
strut arm bushing, rear 4037659

For 1978, the B100, B200 & B300 all used a single part number for the upper control arm, and a single part number for the upper control arm bushings; no differences based on weight. Must have been mighty rugged uppers! For 1979-1981 the upper control arms and bushings had different numbers based on weight. Probably proves that bean counters were at work at Chrysler...

The 1978 upper control arm doesn't use a pivot bar, it uses two cam bolts.

The same upper control arm ball joint is used in 1978 as in 1979-1981.

The same lower control arm ball joint is used in 1978 as in 1979-1981.

1978 front and rear strut arm bushings were both the same part as the 1979 & up rear strut arm bushing.

Remember, I've excluded the B100 and B300 series from this list of numbers. The B300 series did use different ball joints, etc.

The 3300 lb front suspension was 5-lug, while the 3600 & 4000 pound were 8-lug.

I'm not sure how much help all this will be, but perhaps you can track down some of what you need based on it.

Clear skies!

All the parts you'll need for the rebuild can be found at Rockauto.com for much less than you can buy them at the parts stores. Moog parts are a bit more expensive, but worth it. Chinese made front end parts are pre-greased with Vaseline, so if you go with the cheaper parts, make sure you pump the new parts full of grease before installing, to push all that crap out. Here's what I'd recommend replacing if you're looking to make the steering and suspension like new:

Inner and outer tie rod ends- also replace the sleeves.....they're cheap insurance.
drag link
center link
idler arms
upper and lower ball joints (note: as far as a press to get them out/in, advance auto carries the press and loans it out free with a deposit)
strut rod bushings
lower control arm bump stops

Also check the steering box for play. Napa has the best deal on the rebuilt steering box if you need it.

I just replaced all of the above in my van, along with shocks, wheel bearings, springs, etc. The van drives just like a brand new truck.

hey all. thanks for all this info. i really think it will help this repair go smooth. though i do not understand most of what you are talking about. my buddy will know (he has a press too).

hiw much did it cost you to do all that front end work?

M_S, from what I can deduce from the parts manual, those '78 and earlier uppers must have been pretty rugged, with them using the very same part for B100, B200 and B300 vans. I bet that even if one of them is pretty rusty it's likely to be stronger than an equally rusty upper from a later van, which is more closely tailored to the load capacity.

Blasting and powder coating should keep your control arms going for years to come. I've been very favorably impressed by how rugged powder coating is after some "evil" experiments I performed on some with a witch's brew of chemicals. I was astonished to find the material was nearly impervious to chemical attack if proper thicknesses were built up on sharp edges and corners. This suggested to me that slightly radiused edges and corners would make a superior foundation for powder coating over the typical sharp and square stamped metal edges and corners.

When I went over my control arms I used Phosphoric acid rather than sandblasting, but then again, I didn't remove my control arms, or else I might have blasted first, then followed up with the acid.

Clear skies!

Thanks Ram.

The biggest thing I have found while powdercoating is the cure time and temp. When I started, I was using a thermometer in the oven to get the correct heat (the oven I use is a 50's vintage). Some of the first parts did not completely cure. Now I use that thermometer in conjunction with an infrared to make sure that not only the oven is at the right temp, but the part is up to temp too. Some of the bigger, heavier parts come up to temp slower than the small stuff. I also started pre-heating some of the bigger stuff. It really helps get rid of the contaminants left behind from the blast cabinet and solvent tank. The heat does effect the color of the parts, so i skip that step if I using clear powder. The aluminum front drum covers for my '32 came out a weird titanium color after I cleared them, which is how I discovered this.

I originally bought it for doing parts of the '32, but I am coating tons of stuff for the van and little things around the house.

That's really interesting M_S, I actually like titanium's pinkish tint. If you have a chance, would you please PM the details of exactly what you did to me? That might be pretty fun to experiment with!

Clear skies!

Here they are...






Maybe it's more of an unpolished magnesium look.

I polished the tips of the fins and to 'clean up' the rest of the fin and make it look cast again I blasted them with aluminum oxide. Then I ran them through the parts cleaner and hit them brake clean and acetone. Then they went into the oven for a 15 min pre-bake. It was when they came out that they had this color. I kind of like it so I put a satin clear powder over it (cleaning the powder off the fins with a wet sponge paint brush before baking). It's not a perfect process and I have no idea what was baked out of the surface to create the color, but it should be fun getting the other one to match. The most important thing is I won't be stuck cleaning and polishing them all the time.

Um, you know that is going to get dirty, right?

That is an interesting color... I like it. The portion visible through the rims made me think of plain un-dyed anodized aluminum with it's lemon yellow tint, but the inner fins are just simply pretty unique! I hope the color remains stable for you over time.

You say you haven't done the other side yet? It's good you recall so much of your prep work and process, I'd think you stand a pretty good chance of getting it to match if you watch it closely enough. In case it may have been related to the parts cleaner solution, do you still have the same batch?

I bet that clear will have a pretty good grip with all the sandblasting and the fin's surface area. Does clear have a pretty good temperature tolerance?

Those drums really fill up the rims don't they. They look like they belong on a van!

Clear skies!

Yeah it's sort of weird looking, but I like weird (the reason the car will be Verdoro green). The good thing is I can reblast and clean the part to get it close to the first. If that color had come out after the clear went on it would be a crapshoot.

I bought the van to haul big parts for that car, but I fell in love with it and it's been getting all of my attention. Otherwise, I would have done the other side a while ago.

The drums are just covers that hide Brembo disc brakes, They are styled to look like Buick aluminum drums and when you have tiny fronts they do have a bit of a funky look sticking out like that.

As a general rule, I have been blasting all parts with aluminum oxide before coating to give it some bite. All of the parts on that car have not seen and heat or road duty, but all of the little stuff on the van seems to holding up well.

Here are the valve covers that I did with same satin powder...



The main deviation for these was no blasting. Instead, I hit them with a green Scotch bright to get rid of the polished look (I want very little chrome on car, because I would rather drive than clean). So my guess would be the blasting media remaining in the aluminum even after the cleaning.

Amen to that!!

Those satin covers look wonderful! I've been bouncing around the idea of some cast Mopar Performance valve covers for my 318, with some colored paint between the ribs on top, and I like the look of yours well enough to now try satin if I take the plunge!

What sort of air pressure are you running your sand blaster at? That might have a very large bearing on what material becomes embedded in the surface, and if it develops a surface texture which might lead to diffraction effects.

I've mostly been using Garnet, so I don't have a track record with Aluminum Oxide to speculate on whether it could be the source of the coloration by itself, but seeing how well it works is sure a sweet card to have up your sleeve!

Clear skies!

I have a piss poor hand me down compressor that is on it's last legs, so I run the blaster w/o a regulator. The pressure hits about 80-90 until I hit the trigger and then drops slowly. I do alot of standing in front of the cabinet and waiting for it to catch up.

If you look closely at the covers, you will see some 'bumps' at the base of the first rib. I used the wet sponge paint brush technique to remove the powder from the polished edge of the rib (didn't want satin on the polished ribs) and it clumped up down there. Just another of those lessons learned in the process. I thought it would flow out better but, oh well. I have heard that you can sand and buff powder but have not tried it yet. I may use those as a test set and do the next set in full satin, then sand the ribs and polish them after. I used that wet sponge on the ribs of the drums first and it turned out perfectly because the excess powder just fell on the floor instead of the part.

Other than that, the satin powder flowed out really well on the drums and the covers. The other gloss colors have an orange peel texture to them. This includes gloss clear that I have put over the two stage chrome powder. A caveat about the chrome, there is a UV element in the clear that really cuts the reflectivity of the chrome powder. It looks great before clear and dull/crappy after. The clear is needed for that UV protection as the chrome powder by itself will dull over time. Th only other powder I have used is called blasted aluminum and it does not have any of the orange peel. It does have a rough blasted look to it though.

So, if you are doing satin you should be fine.

p.s. If the mods or powers that be want to move this portion of the thread to a new topic I am all for it. It's good for others to know how easy powder coating is and with old ovens on Craigslist not too expensive to start up.

Sorry for the hijack.

Back on topic, I used a P-S-T kit on Lions Den and it was nice and well priced. As I recall it only came with 2 tie rod ends tho and required 4.

The pre 78 ball joints are pressed in also and the 78 and up are threaded in and require a special socket. We also needed a flame wrench when doing LD to heat them to get the old ball joints out.

While you have everything apart, why not just remove the control arms and have new bushings pressed in? Then give them a paint job.

You can press those bushings in yourself, using the same ball joint press. It works great, and doesn't require you to create some funky jig like you'd need with a shop press to keep from warping the control arms. I had a set of control arms ruined by a shop that tried pressing those out.

Do any of you know if on the 78 are the upper and lower control arms threaded or press in ball joints?

I'm pretty sure the 78 still has the press in ones. You can tell by the shape of the top of them. If they are round, they are press in, if they are round, but have flat sides on them (kind of hex shaped) then they are threaded and you need a special socket to remove them.