I finally have a place to work on my van. I Scored a 20x25 garage with a loft in the second story for storage. I’m almost done insulating and putting up walls (I’m on the last wall and the last section of ceiling). Built work benches down one side. The electrician has me all wired up for power - several normal circuits and 220. The 18,000 BTU AC unit is installed and running. Scored an air compressor, and picked up some air tools, bench vice and grinder. I got a sweet deal on a Mig welder, cart, tank, and regulator. I picked up a NICE, slightly used, auto dim mask at half price (that thing rocks). Moved the three tap kegerator into the garage and installed a stereo. Installed new lights – it’s nice to be able to see. I’m getting there…. I still need to save up and buy the heater (I’ll need that in a few months). I expect to be almost living in there. If I'm not at work, bed, or truckin - I'll be in the garage. Still need things. A high volume explosion proof exhaust fan would be nice. Definitely need inline an air filtration…. A real camera would be good, lol. But in the mean time I can cut holes in my van… and snap shots with the cell. Let the games Begin!
Garages are always a good thing. I wish mine wasnt packed full of machines... i havent had a car in here in like a year and a half. I'm thinking of putting up a car port though.
Thanks guys! I have no idea what I'm doing, but thats half the fun.
I'll try to keep the welds shorter. Being patient was never my strong point, but I'm working on that. I was working with the welder in one hand and the air hose in the other. Weld....air....weld....air...
When I'm done, it should be one smooth solid piece of metal right? No little pits anything like that right? Its taking me multiple rounds of welding and grinding to get there.
ya know, I over heard someone commenting at the NATS about how the young kids just want to go fast and dont care what it looks like. Made me chuckle, still does. (Damn young punks and their speed racing shit box's! LOL) After I got the rat fink-ish images out of my head I thought about it more on the way home from NY. I can always blow up my motor and build a new one, that part is easy. The shell is more difficult to come by.
ya know, I over heard someone commenting at the NATS about how the young kids just want to go fast and dont care what it looks like. Made me chuckle, still does. (Damn young punks and their speed racing shit box's! LOL!
that's funny right there!
Your first patch looks great. You can leave the tiny 'pits' just make sure everything is really clean before putting any bondo over top. I personally like to always use fiberglass filler for the first coat of filler, even if it is only a very small area.
Using air to cool is a good idea also. Keep in mind too, though that excessive grinding can also build up heat. Your doing great so far.
might want to lower your wire feed a hair. You only really want to add as much metal as you need to. Do you have an auto darkening shield? Even the crappy $40 harbor freight ones work ok, and it makes life ALOT easier.
ya know, I over heard someone commenting at the NATS about how the young kids just want to go fast and dont care what it looks like.
Ya know, that's pretty much the way hot rodding always was. There were the guys building sleds and show rods, but if you look at the cars up into the 60's early 70's they were all about going fast and things like paint and bodywork were either quickly done with a brush or forgotten altogether. It's nothing new.
For years I had been working in a gravel driveway. Didnt have to worry about spilling fluids, but its not very combfortable. It sucked working in the rain and snow. Having to lug the jack, tools, and crap all the way up and down the stairs each time. I feel your pain :-)
I do have a nice auto dim face shield. I love it, works great you use it. My dumb ass pulled the tigger last night and forgot to put the mask back down. DOH! Scared the crap out of my self. I did backed off the wire feed just a little.
Last night's progress...
I think I should have ground this down a weeee bit more in one spot.
Pizza Box's are good for more than holding pizza...
Slapped a long straight edge on there - Much to my suprise it came out terribly straight. Found two spots I want to build up a little more and sand back down. I'll do the seam on other end of the panel next and make sure everything is still straight all the way across. I also want to make all those nasty looking spot welds go away. Any good tricks for welding up spot welds?
Not sure short of smoothing it with filler to compensate for the "sag" around the spot welds. Looking good man! Good luck
Pretty much all you can do.
I use a piece of 3/8" thick tempered glass for mixing filler. When your done wipe off with paper towel and then when the film left hardens scrape it off with a razor blade. It's reusable and usually free.
You should find a way to incorporate that "Hot Delicious Pizza" logo onto your paint job. May just a small mural tucked somewhere inconspicuous, but I think that would be cool.
Very nice work for some one who is just learning /starting out.... I set my machine by useing some scrape metal BUT lap what ever type of weld i am doing. set the heat /wire sped untill it makes a good "hot tack" Just hot enough to be flat and give good penatration.Not to hot so it will not blow out. Then igo to the van and weld up the area that needs attention.using all tack welds. This can be time consuming depending on how big of an area you are working.
looking good bill. Like I said the other day you'll get burnt out, leave it alone for a bit, and come back to it. having the garage to do it in is the big part. as c1run1 said, just have fun. don't make it into a job.
Clover talked me into going up stairs last night for food. I sat down to think about how I was going to reconstruct the sub structure behind the front wheel well... and apparent I fell asleep. woops. Maybe thats a sign.
DUDE! I heard this huge BANG noise and thoguth someone threw somehtign at the garage. Headed for the door ready to throw down and couldnt open the door. ? what the hell I thought? The Torsion spring broke.... Van is ok, no one hurt. Good thing Clover and Bert had been hanging out at the time or I may have been trapped in the garage. BIG old HEAVY wooden door. Good golly, I can get it about 2 feet off the ground...enought to slip an old rim under the door. Really takes two people though.
So, I've been researching garage doors and the diffrent spring types. Seriouslsy considergin just replacing that door with an steel insulated one and yes, installing it myself. No Fear, I'll use the defense in depth approach.
So I got options: - Pay a dude to replace my current scary torsion springs (onsite spring replacement) - Go buy a door and install it that has Standard Extension springs, instock at homedepot for $300 (Safer to install the torsion springs). - Custom order the same door, but with add on mounting hardware and the "EZ-SET Spring" which is super safe and easy to install.
or I can just say F it and go to slam and come back... (some how I have to get the van out of the garage though....)
I read this earlier before making a run into the city and I was excited for you. I felt as if I'd just gone shopping myself. I don't know you personally, but I am almost sure that you deserve it. Anyone willing to go all out on the things you listed, is alright with me. As my late mother would say, "Go Head On with your bad self".
I also have a door that needs replacing, but have yet to do it. Why is it, we seem to make attempts at bypassing the repair? I thought about swapping the doors being that my Impala is'nt moving until I drop the body back down on the chassis (who knows when I'll decided to do that). So as you can see, it's normal to think this way. Eventually, my door's gonna fall as well. I have a frayed cable and the bearing fell out of one of the wheels that the bad cable rides on. When I had my van inside (with the door up), I always expected the door to drop and damage my windshield. Glad it did'nt, but I'm sure it will eventually. So until I complete the remainder of my kids school shopping, I decided to leave the Vanessa in the driveway to avoid a worst case scenerio. As for how to install it, I'd recommend you have a couple buddies help you out with your knew door and save the extra money for wet/dry sand paper or a new filter for your compressor, ect.
bill, go to slam, then come home and deal with it. you might run into someone at slam with the hook up on doors. you never know! I've had the springs break on my moms door before. what a bummer. it was an old set up and really made a bang!
Eventually, my door's gonna fall as well. I have a frayed cable and the bearing fell out of one of the wheels that the bad cable rides on.
Dude, that’s playing with fire. Those springs have A LOT of stored energy in them; I wouldn’t want to be standing there when the cable gives out. Anyone that knows me knows I'm not a real big fan "safety", but someone could really get hurt. Be careful man :-)
Found out my door is a custom size. Oh boy fun fun super custom. So I'd have to have the door ordered... blah blah. crap. To further complicate things I want what the newer, easier / safer to install version of the spring that only requires a hex bit and a drill to tighten. That’s an order only item... My $300 door is increasing in price. I'll probably still go to home depot and get a final quote and figure out what to do. See what the bottom line is. If I end up spending getting a new door it will be insulated. Prolly pay as much for the door as I'll be paying to buy the electric heater... but cost savings in heat loss may work out in the long run. I plan to heat it all winter long. crap. lol.
Maybe someone at slam has a door hook up. (oh yeah I'm going to slam, hell or high water)
"Action Door" quoted me $165 to some out and replaces one torsion spring (I only have one on that door) and $225 for two springs. I made an appointment for Thursday after noon. I can still cancel it, or delay it until after slam....
Giant Gull Wing would be cool. Thats a big mold.... I know a guy thought, lol.
Welding spot welds...
Second Seam, this was a neat one, panels almost matched up flush at the top, but there is a 1/2" diff at the bottom. Making that go away.
Ohhhh Nasty! Found more rot, and rot under that..
Chopped some of that out
Gotta cut out and fabricate the sub structure so I'll have something to weld the panel too
one piece at a time.... ( Did I mention I'm new to this? Its fun as hell! Cut more off, weld more one. Someone's probubly cringing, but I'm having fun.)
Covered up the big hole, but it still has a long way to go. I have to swap out email servers tonight and thats going to eat up my garage time for this evening. :-( bummer.
The garage door spring guy ws done by 4, had to move on the van so I could drive it to Slam.
Not done yet, but getting there, I'll grind the primer / paint off when I get hoem and work on it some more. I found rot in a panel I thought was good, or atleast better then it is. I'll need to chop that out. I need to finish the bottom rails, and do the insides of the wheel wells.
Its comming along. There are a couple low spots that I'd like to build up, but came out pretty straight all thigns considered. I threw on some primer and a a splash of paint that I had laying around, rattle canned it - lol. This is how far I got before I pushed in the clutch a little after 1 am. Not perfect, yet, but good enought to get me to slam for the weekend ;-)
I wanded to keep moving along the edge. Intended to do the front wheel well corner, and the inside lip of the step. I followed the rot trail all the way into the cab floor. OMG, ripped the rubber floor out and was horrified. I had to cut all that out and replace it so I would have somethign solid to weld the outer shell parts too. To make thigs worse, not only the floor pan panels looked wasted, but also the H shapped subb floor support rails. Had to recreate that too. Tried to take it appart and reassemble close to what I think they did at the factory.
Evil Rot.
Chop-Chop
Button it back up
Cheap temp rust prevention....
Now that I have something to weld too.... I can go back to replacing parts of the wheel well, quarter panel, and step.
Not going to get any work done this weekend, I have to head down south and rescue clover and his van. Transmission went out. :-( One way or another we'll get his van home.
I've seen a few with perfect front floors, but not many. Brian has an A-108 winder van with a near perfect front floor. We're making that into a nice cruiser soon.
Dang! I've been so bizzy lately havent spent any time in the garage. Between the crazyness at work, and travelign every weekend, maintaining normal life crap, and prepping for this party next month - dont seem to have enougth hours in the day.
Saturday I built a floor above where the garage door rails are. Did one bay, still need to do the other. Now I have somethign to stand on to finish insulating that half of the roof and that one last outside wall. :-) Clover scored a big HEAVY 12 foot parts counter from the napa. We chopped it to fit at 9 foot. Thats 9 more feet of bench space and storage below. The thing is like a rock.
Last night I was dertermined to do something to the van. So I picked the panel that the door step slider action previously came through. Hoping to finish it up tonight. Got Last chance this weekend, then the Party on the 16th....after that the van wont be leaving the garage again until spring. :-)
We should all be having as much fun as you (envy).
Just a few things worth mentioning... I couldn't tell from the pictures, but fill the weld area / pits with weld and not filler... weld, grind flat and do again... it really makes for the best finish as pits usually have junk.
You really dont want to use cardboard for mixing... It sucks up the oils and chemicals from the filler. These chemicals are needed in the product. While some may say that they have done it this way for years. I would not risk ruining a paint job on it. What's a mushroom doing on the side of the van? Was that a mushroom pie?
Why do all the metal pieces on a van have straight lines and curves? Yea those 'speed lines' look great and the curves give dimension. But, more importantly they are for strength and expansion. If it was all flat, it would have no where to expand to. I mention this with regard to the floor pieces... It is good to re-incorporate those bumps in the metal. A flat piece will not be as strong and you may hear the oil canning effect ta' tink.. ta' tunk... as things expand or are walked on.
Overall the van looks great... Thanks for sharing...
I've been wheel brushing the pits and stuff to remove any extra crap before applying filler. I like the idea of welding up the pits. After the party (oct 16th) I'm stripping off all that rattle can paint and going back in there .
I never thought about loosing oils in the card board. hmmm how about that.
I have a bunch of pics of work I got done before taking off for Last Chance, I'll get those posted. Started playing with Seam Sealer. I'm curious what tricks you guys use when working with rubber seam sealer. (sure doesnt sand nice, HAHAHAHA!)
Yeah - I know Rubber seam sealer was never intended to be sandable, but I made hell of a mess trying to smooth out the bead.
Lemme back up. I cleaned out the seam. Laid a bead of rubber seam sealer. Looked good, but I wanted to smooth it out flush with the metal I was sealing. Thiking it was like a bathtub, I ran my finger through it. eeeewwwww. Not what I had hoped for. So then I stuck three fingers, Middle finger on the seam, with my index and other finger on wither side of the middle one. That came out much nicer... But I still had smeared rubber all over the place. Thats what I sanded off, all the excess, took a bit of work. Maybe I just used too much product to begin with.
Yippy Skippy, I have framed in the second half of garage, I now have a full loft. Finally, I have somehting to stand on I can install the rest of the insulation. Going to pick up the furnace tomorrow. I scored a 70,000 BTU Colamn Heating Oil Furnace designed for a mobile home. It was designed for an installation with limited real estate. (The price was right). I also scored a used "standard" 275 gallon oil tank for $50. One fill up on fuel and I should be good to go on the heat for a while. Heating Oil is $2.85 in my neck of the woods right now. The think I like the most abotu this unit, it is closed combustion, meaning it brings air in form outside - combusts in a chamber - and exhausts back out side. The heat from the combustion chamber is transfered via a heat exchange and a blower blows across the heat exchange. I get hot air, no open flames, no fumes. Only thing I need now it the correct exhaust stack kit.
It wont be long and I'll be done workgin on the garage and I can get back to workgin on my van.
looks real good billy! the trick with seam sealer is to put on some rubber gloves and after you apply it dip your finger in some lacker thinner and smooth it out and remove excess seam sealer.
Yeah I don't know why, but it's a good feeling when you get the van stripped down. Maybe because you know good things are coming. Sorry, no tips on the window removal.
As long as your rubbers are still pliable you can use the old rope method to remove them. Lift the edge of the rubber (inside) and run a piece of rope completely around the rubber. Lubricate well with WD40. Once all the way around wrap the ends of the rope around a screw drive with the ends close and twist until the rope is snug all the way around the window lifting the rubber out from the frame. With help (so you don't drop it on the floor) pres against the window starting in one corner with your entire hand flat on the glass and work back and forth across the edge until it slides out.
You'll be ready for chopping real soon and clear spot removal!
It does have a lot of clear spots. After our last conversation about chopping, I'm not sure I'm ready for all that yet. I'm toying with a few ideas other ideas.
I want to redo my gutter rail job, learned a thing or two since then. I could shave the gutter rails, I'm concerned the water would come in. Originally I wanted to flip in the door hinges, but I don't know about that now. I love Gullwings, but it would look silly with all the clear spots. OR I could ditch the clear spots. (I haven't attempted to remove any glass yet hehe **CRACK*** - problem solved, weld it up, lol)
At the moment I'm leaning towards trying to figure out how to lambo door the front two doors. Anyone figure that out yet? Anyone have any pictures of an early with lambo doors?
OH OH, and last night I revisited the slam and bag idea. IF I tubbed out the front and the back and had the frame notched out.it is possible.. I was worried about axle / radiator clearance. I have plenty of room if I reroute some lines. The limitation is going to be the distance between the top of the axle and bottom of the crank shaft pulley. Wouldn't want to hit a bump and eat up my belt on the axle or worse.
Originally Posted by wookee
She will look great in the "Early line up" at this years Nationals.......
........Wookee
That is what I'm shooting for. It will be a miracle if I make it there with fresh paint. I'm trying not to dwell the colossal amount of work ahead of me. I'm focusing on one hole at a time, and trying to do some work every day. The holidays kind of mucked up the works.
I spent FOREVER last night shaping the piece of metal to fix this hole. Pictures dont do it justice....
OMG. Tricky curve. I had two body lines intersect and then a third line shoots off diagonally. Like a "Y" with a bent shaft… but in 3D. I think it took about 4 hours. Doesn't looks like 4 hours of work, but it fit like a glove.
Tonight I'm going to try and do the hole next to it...atleast the the plan at the moment...
Lambo doors on an early would be near impossible, unless you could come up with a completely different mechanism for it. All of the kits made were designed to bolt behind the fender of the vehicle, and Earlie Vans don't have fenders. You could fit hinges to the side of the windshield post and hinge the doors there, but it may be too much weight in the window frame. You'd have to add some support to it. It would prolly be easier to chop it
...damn, you are right. Even if I was able to stuff a scissor hinge inside the cavity of the larger curve (behind the head light). welded onto a reinforced frame thing.... the part I didnt consider at all (until now) was the pistons. There would not be any room to install pistons to assist in opening /closing the door. Looking at what comes as a kit, it seems the pistons extend further inside the fender twards the front of the car..... shit.... lol.... hmmmm
while Lamo doors are impossible or close to it on an Early suicide doors or butter Fly doors (hinging the doors along the A pillar) are very do able. I need to look a little bit I just saw a picture on an early with the butterfly set up. don't worry If id does not have paint on it by the "Nationals" it is still welcome in the line up. (mine had primer and over spray on it this past year).......LOL
.....errrrr for the lambo doors, I ment gas struts... not pistons... Butterfly or suicide doors might work. I'm think i may just leave the doors alone. :-)
Dont worry Wookee, I'm driving it to the NATS! Oh yes, even in primer is I have too..... Wouldnt miss it for the world!
Was burning the late night oil last night. Think I went inside around 5 am, just woke up. Slam some coffee and head back down for round two.... Here's more pics. The "String Trick" worked out GREAT! Little Liquid courage, Thin Nylon rope, plenty of WD-40, and a 3 inch socket extension :-) It IS easy once you get the hang of it. After the the first one, it was all down hill. That step / fender rebuild is a real bear, so many lines, bends and compound curves in one small area, its insane. I never really looked at it much until now. Thank goodness I still had the other side to look at.
Thanks for all the support, it is very encouraging. I’ve had a few good lord - what the f have I done to my poor vav moments. hehe but those are brief. I’m in it now - go big or go home.
Removed bumper, grill, wipers, turn signal lenses, and head light bezels
Found evidence of previous molestation in the nose. There is a good size dent right on the center body line of the nose. No rot, just filler.
How many layers does this look like to you??? Looks like: Gray primer, white paint, red paint, gray primer, red paint...
Getting there....
By 5 am Sunday morning I threw in the towel and took a power nap on the bench, lol.
Does anyone have the link to the thread containing A100 dash removal pics? I know its spot welded in and a main support element for the front end. I just want to see some pictures and try to avoid the known pitfalls.
I have some bad rot right on the edge of the air plume intake... I believe it’s the worst spot on the van. It is definitely going to be the most challenging. There will be no easy way to fix this one and expect it to last.
….I am still kicking around getting rid of those clear spots…..
The dash is welded in the windshield frame and there are some spot welds in the door jambs. Check out My thread on Chopping my Early Dodge in the Readers Ride section. There are some pictures there, although I did end up cutting my dash along the window line because I was going to install a new hand fabricated dash. The pics should show all the welds though.
to save you 15 minutes of scrolling and searching his thread is on page 27 of the readers rides forum. ken we need new updated pics please . thanks !!
That van has actually been put on the back burner, buddy! I bought another one from California that is in WAY better shape. Working on a side project now and one coming in, that will help to finance My Early chop and some more work on Superbeast!
My 70 A-van had a thick layer of bondo covering a dent in the same location. How the f*ck does a dent get that high?
I think almost all of them did!
My early had the dent, it was never filled. The New one I got to chop is bondo up front too. I just bought a new nose off of Scotty to replace it.
The problem is if you hit something in these vans, the air plenum keeps you from pushing the dents out, so they are usually pulled and filled, or just filled. The air plenum is welded in also.
Yeah, that seems like a better plan. Only place that has them in stock around here is Summit. Might pick up a right angle air drill while I'm there.....in route to summit racing for blair spot weld cutting bits.... zip zip.... the blizzard cant stop van progress.... pushing through!
Just ordered a panel from mill supply, should arrive in a week. They are about 20 minutes from the office.... and they have the other panel I need in stock.
Time to rock an roll!
Think I'll pull the front wind shield tonight and go from there....Maybe gut my dash first and see if I can rip ot the air plum without removing the dash?
Dunno, but I have a long ride home in the snow to figure it out.
Pics of progress below. Clover came down to see how the window was removed and played with the dent puller. Dr.Rosh put in more man hours hand sanding the window seams.....
The front glass came out well, lube it up real well, Removed lockin strip, pushed one side out at a time, gasket came out in one piece.
after removing the heat unit housing, it looks like if I gut the dash, I may be abe to remove the air plume back cover without totally removing the dash. (I hope anyway)
I had a chance to test out the Blair 3/8" bit in the right angle air drill. WOW! Thats amazing.
Air Plume back plate removal WITHOUT removing the dash :-) I was uncomfortable disrupting such a critical support component.
SUCK-CESSSSSSS! That was a pain in the ass. I had to get in some pretty funky squirrel-monkey positions to get all the spot welds cut. Like some kind of garage yoga or something.
Not sure what I'm going to do about this part. I ripped a hole in one of them when I slipped with spot weld bit. Maybe I get a nice billet thing instead. Something easy to clean might be nice.... who knows. I could just repair the stock one.
Now that all the crap has been removed.... time for the fun part.
Passenger side nose rot:
I LOVE these magnetic clamps.
Came out pretty straight. I need to take a file and file the top part flush. Almost as good as new.
Driver Side nose rot ( much worse than the first side):
Instead of bending one chunk of metal and trying to line it up nicely, I used two pieces and welded the seam.
Started on the driver side step...
Back on the nose.
Using a thin layer of long strand fiberglass filler over the welds. Going with USC Long and Strong. Planning to build on top of that with USC All metal body filler
Boy, you are leaving no stone unturned with this restoration! Thanks for posting. It makes me happy to see another early van being brought back to it's former glory.
Thanks for all the support. I’m having a lot of fun with this. …..This restoration stuff is addictive…. And I don’t mean the fumes…
I wanted to do freeze out, sounds like I missed a good time. Several things just fell out of alignment days prior to departure. On the bright side - It was a good chance for me to hammer out more of the van. I didn’t get as far along as I had hoped. Saturday, we threw a party for my Pal’s birthday….girls on the pole seemed like more fun than breathing fiberglass fumes. And…well…..we drinks a bit, so I was pretty much useless Sunday. I’m going to hit it hard again as soon as I can. Tonight is a wash….I got an upgrade happening at a clients site. Hopefully I’ll get more hours in the garage tomorrow and the following days. Mill Supply should have the side panel in this week that I ordered.
Panels are in - Look Good. Time to weld up front driver step and the lower body all down the drivers side. The nose id coming out better than I had hoped. All welds to date are coated with glass, All-Metal soon to come. My arm is so sore from sanding. :-)
Update Pics on the way at spome point....
The Garage is without a doubt a time warp portal into the future. You enter, work, and before you know it its Easily 8 hours later....doesnt seem like 8 hours... Maybe I dont have a clock in there for a reason :-)
Well Hell Yeah Man - It's the place to be that weekend. Be there or be Square~! I may have to van pool with Jamie if my van is still in the garage, but I'll be at VanJam for IBOB. Look on the bright side; if I don't drive.....I can't misplace my keys!
I'm officially started cutting holes and welding on side three..it's shaping up. Here are some pics of the Driver side step, fender, and sub framework re-fab.
The driver side stamped replacement panel was a bit “off” for lack of a better term in comparison to the passenger side panel I had. Passenger side fit like a glove; this side was a bit more of a challenge.
...not 100% sure why, but I had a heck of a time trying to weld that side. Looked like shit and took a while to grind…..and I broke my dremel bit too. Could have been a combination of things, sleep deprivation - maybe I forgot to turn the gas back on? It didn’t help that one of my friends showed up right after I had it tacked on and it went downhill from there. He kept sticking his fingers and head in the way telling me all about how he took welding in high school. MF’er kept sticking his face in the way to inspect things every time I took my finger off the trigger. And he was like literally shoulder to shoulder with me in my working space. I think that was a BIG part of it. I was getting all irritated at his drunken ass. Near the peak of irritation I blurted out, "DUDE! ….. I'm trying to weld this shit up and you’re in my way! Don’t look….cuz Here we go….” - and just went for it. I should have just walked away or something.
At some point he passed out in a near by blue capt chair (not bolted to the floor). A little while later heard a strange sound. It sounded like a cantaloupe hitting the concrete. I stood up to look around and sure enough, he fell out of the GD chair and on to the concrete floor. I’m just glad he didn’t bust his skull open or impale himself on something. He is almost twice my weight so it took a little bit of effort for me and the other dude to stuff him in the back of my van, where he could safely roll around.
I’m going to have some fun working down the side. It’s more rotten than I thought over there… I’ll probably cut out the whole section from wheel well to wheel well, just below the floor pan line to the bottom spot welded rail thing. (What’s that called anyway? The spot welded strip along the bottom.).
Still kicking around the clear spot removal.... If anyone has ane bright ideas (or better pics) I'm open to suggestions.
That bottom edge is basically called the lower body pinch weld.
Sometimes it is good to step away, that's how I ground, my arm, burnt my hair and broke my foot. Like some other things in life, you have to know when to say when!
Clear spot removal on your van is actually easy because its flat where the clear spots are. The biggest concern is to take your time welding and don't rush.
The smaller windows may even be able to be done with glue? Wonder if anyone ever did that? If the glue wouldn't crack it would be a piece of cake to fill them in.
How much experience did you have with welding body panels before this van? one way to close up clear spots that big is to find a panel van with a rusty bottom and cut the panels out for it.
Previous experience? Pretty much none. I tacked in a lower rocker on an astro once :-P Its not that I don’t welcome other's to share their experience(s), its very valuable. This guy was just drunk in the way :-) (he didnt even wake up when he hit the ground....that had to hurt the next day)
hmmm....If I got my hands on a ruffed up A108 van, I'd likely defile it and ravage it for parts....
I was thinking of using the glass I removed possibly as a template and adding a wee bit more around the edge. The other thing that I thought of was using some card board to make a template. I only have three window shapes to worry about. It’s going to have to be some precision cut sheet metal. Wish I knew a guy with an AutoCAD cutter thing.
Originally Posted by Superbeast
Clear spot removal on your van is actually easy because its flat where the clear spots are. The biggest concern is to take your time welding and don't rush.
The smaller windows may even be able to be done with glue? Wonder if anyone ever did that? If the glue wouldn't crack it would be a piece of cake to fill them in.
I was leaning in the direction of panel glue instead trying to weld it. I’ve never used the glue before. I’m not sure how much mating surface area is required for a strong long lasting bond. I hear you have to clamp the crap out of it though, that might take some creative engineering.
If I can recess it JUST a smidge, it should come out fairly straight after a thin coat of fiberglass and then filler on top of that. I need some build up materials, but I’m worried about popping. There are lots of vibrations in that van.
I could never install a ground shaking sound system ;-) I watched Clover flex his roof and walls playing with a pair of 15” Kicker Solo-Baric’s. It was pretty cool though, the puddle of water on his roof was up in the air most of the time…and he only had one amp pushing both of them. We’ll have to try it again in a big long mountain tunnel pass some time! That could be neat!
How much experience did you have with welding body panels before this van? one way to close up clear spots that big is to find a panel van with a rusty bottom and cut the panels out for it.
Previous experience? Pretty much none. I tacked in a lower rocker on an astro once :-P Its not that I don’t welcome other's to share their experience(s), its very valuable. This guy was just drunk in the way :-) (he didnt even wake up when he hit the ground....that had to hurt the next day)
hmmm....If I got my hands on a ruffed up A108 van, I'd likely defile it and ravage it for parts....
Okay, that gives me confidence to buy panels and weld them on my van myself...I have NO experience with welding. Yours look good enough to me, and apparently, a few others.
Buying parts vans are the best way to fix a van up...extra parts and scrap price (for return).
Before going full ape on the van, I played around a little bit welding pieces of sheet metal together. I think the hardest part is getting the heat and wire speed dialed in. Second to the settings was developing some patience. Not exactly one of my many virtues It is a slow process.
There are a bunch of youtube videos out there on welding, several how to sites exist, and some very knowledgeable people on this site if you have questions. Pictures are very helpful. For having no formal welding education - I’ve concluded its only metal….cut some off, weld some on, grind it down, and repeat if needed. Someone who actually knows what they are doing may be horrified by that approach but it seems to be working so far.
Try www.harborfreight.com they have decent tools at cheap prices. Not always the best quality but that costs a lot more. Do try and buy a good welding machine tho.
Ironically, I started stripping the gutter rails over the weekend and I discovered a new trick for EZ removal of the self leveling seam sealer. Used a heat gun to too heat (but not burn) the underside of the rail with one hand and wiggled a screwdriver under the goop with the other. This worked out well. Not sure how well it would work on 40+ year old sealer, but the 2 year old stuff came out easily and left the surface as clean and shiny as the day I blasted it two years ago. Wild! Now I have to decide if I want to reseal them or do away with the gutter rails. I just don't want water pouring in, so I'm a bit sketched out over the rail removal (not to mention the work involved).
Welder... I lucked out on the welder. I was all about to drop the cash on either a Lincoln or a Miller when I found this at a giant village wide Yard sale. I don't recall what I gave the guy for it, he swore it worked but had the tank the cart and goggles at home. I have him cash for the whole lot. I got really lucky, it worked and it was a steal of a deal, later traded in the 40# tank for a larger one. I picked up a good Jackson NextGen Auto Dim Helmet, I love it.
The clamps... those clamps are a HarborFreight special. I think I'm going to buy an anvil from there too. Not much to go wrong with magnets and anvils ;-) I picked up some air tools from there to get me going. None of them have broken yet, but they have poor efficiency of air consumption when compared to the more expensive name brand air tools. I'm slowly upgrading the air tools that I use a the most
Originally Posted by Superbeast
Did you run out of gas during those welds, or were you getting tired? Most look good, but a couple of them looked a bit splattery.
DUDE! OMG I did run out of gas. HAHAHAHA! I went to weld something Saturday (right after the gas place closed) and Son of a bitch, no gas. That was definitely a contributing factor. I Instead of welding stuff; I did a LOT of sanding and filling and sanding. Kept slapping the straight edge on it and then a little more sanding and filling It's shaping up for sure! Stripped half of the gutter rails, and found a new rot hole in the head light holder thing. I need to make a run for more materials.
Wow - I started the motor thread on August 20th 2008 - about a month after I picked up the van, ended up being much more than just a top half rebuild
Funny, I've been there with that. Welding along and all of a sudden they look like crap and I go nuts, give up for the day because I think it's just me being tired or something, and realize the next day that I'm out of gas or the nozzle is clogged, or something.
Drip rail shaving is a lot of welding. Also keep in mind that without the drip rail over the front doors, you will need really good seals to keep the rain out. IMO if you are going to shave them you should tackle the chop you want to do! You already seem to have the hard part (welding) conquered.
Opted to weld up seam between the turn signal and head light body curve.
When removing the seam on the side, I got carried away and warped the panel just above the seam. First thign I've warped so far, and I warped it PRETTY good. (that added hours of work to the project) Lessons Learned. After lookgin at my options I just chopped out the warped part and welded new metal in.
Making more progress on the front and sides. I'll have to take more pics.
.....back to the clear spot removal... How much mating surface area is required to bond two pieces of steel? Using panel glue...I've been thinking aboout it and I have an idea.... :-P
Nice job on the seam. I'm gonna fill all of mine on my early. That will be a lot of welding too.
Patients does pay off greatly when welding. Rushing just turns into more work as you now know. We've all done it!
Well then...in that case, you can see where I go wrong and avoid those mistakes on yours ;-)
I'm on the fence about welding up the rear vertical seams. I think the horizontal ones can be removed somewhat easily because the panels match up kind of close. The Rear vertical seam, man.... nothing matches up anywhere on that one. I'm just afraid that if I wanted to remove it I would have to use way more filler than I want to use. I'm still eye balling it and holding the straight edge up to it...
Seam removal passenger side rear seam - I didn't warp this one. I was getting good penetration too.
I went back and hit any small spots that I didn’t fill all the way (you can see them in this one). I got a coat of Long and Strong on and that sanded down. ( no pics of that yet) At that point it was midnight so I went to bed. I’ll put in more hours tonight.
I backed it in as close as I could to the wall without hitting it. (it was close, hehe) I have about 3-4 feet between the nose and the garage door. I needed room to work on the nose and get around to both sides, once the nose and frotn steps / wheel well parts are done I'll push it as close as I can to the garage door and start on the back.
I Ran out at lunch time, picked up a cheese grater, a DA, and more paper. the DA is a Chicago Pneumatic CP870 . I keep thinking, there must be a reason the Hutchins HU3560 is $260 and the CP was only $60. Anyone have an opinion? (must be a reason other than the name.) None the less, it will get me by for now. Stoked! Time to go home and get my grind one!
BTDT! When I work on Debbie's truck in the garage, I have that problem. I have to leave the door open, even, it just makes it inside on the work bench side of my garage.
I had a CP long board for years and it was OK. It worked well and did it's job for a long time. Well it finally started to give me fits and I broke down and bought a new Ingersol Rand one. It was on sale for $150.00 and at the time a new CP was around $80.00. I decided to spoil myself and buy the IR, well let me tell you, the first time I used it I wished I bout the IR first. Dunno if it will be the same thing with your DA, but the IR long board was so much smoother to use, it was like a Cadilac compared to a Jeep!
I've since learned, that if you are going to use a tool a lot, you may want to spend a couple extra bucks and get one in between the cheap one and the best one.
After the Passanger side horizontal seam, I started in on the passanger rear vertical seam. Started getting a bit long on those welds may have been flirting with diaster, but there was no warpage.
My pal the cheesegrator!!
Started in on the Driver side horizontal seams last night.
.....I had someone ask me if it was a VW once....ok, maybe twice.
I dont think early Chevys and Fords have that many lines. I'm removing my seams for cosmetic reasons. I suppose it will be stronger as a result. I'm not sure why they did that either but I have thought about it.
Maybe.... - The seams and spotwelds made for quick assembly on the line? - The multiple panels make for "quick and easy" replacement? - The multiple panels and seams allow for the things to flex and move around? - Dodge had to be diffrent?
I just hope this doesnt have adverse effects. Guess Time will tell.
The real gotcha seems to be the mulltiple panels at multiple heights. To compound the problem that changes as you move along the panel. Tricky-Trick. The difficult part seems be making it straight - Its time consuming. Good Times! I'll be in no time! Thanks guys!
Safety note: I would suggest removing the fuel tank before welding and grinding around the filler neck. It was a bit nerver racking thinking about what I was doing with my face inches from the fuel hole and the weld arc. I managed to not blow my self up.....looking back, not the wisest choice. I kept blowing out the flames with the air house
I had a 70 A-100 and I had a guy ask me if it was a VW. I still had all the Dodge emblems on it AND I had a vinyl decal in the windshield that said "DODGE TRUCK". Idiot.
Found this Crawling the web - someone erased their clear spots, nothing like a visual aid.
I should do some photo chopping.
Still havent figured out what to do about the grill... I want to do something diffrent, but not sure what yet.
I've been block sanding like a machine lately in the garage. Last night I had to take my shirt off so I wouldnt be sweating on the metal or anything It was COLD outside, but about 70 in the garage. I'm gainign weight too, thats very unusual. And my arms are getting bigger. Go figure....exercise. ha!
More pics hopefully soon.
I remember now what I wanted to ask you guys. How do you remove the serial number tag from the driver side wheel well? Those are some HARD screws. First thought was unscrew the, one came out, stripped the top of the rest. Thought I would drill them, broke the bit. Am I missing something?
Lots and Lots of block sanding going on, but until I get icing on it, no point in posting pics of that.
The $40 long board sander from harbor freight kicked the bucket. (the HF cut off wheel, zip zip, and flanger are still in the game) I paid cash, as john smith, no warranty. Logic begins, if the $40 tool breaks I dont wenty another one and it’s not worth my time or fuel trying to get back to HF. I took it as far apart as I could, looks like a chunk of metal broke off inside and went to town. Now I’m trying to decide between a Chicago Pneumatic and an Ingersoll Rand, Summit Racing stocks both.
In the mean time, I cut a hole in the driver, I plan on replacing the bottom panel wheel to wheel. Making progress - I had to rebuild all the sub structure so I would have something to weld to. I wanted to keep the drains in the pinch weld, oddly, the metal was more solid there than the rest of the pinch. Hope to start welding in the replacement panel tonight. ….but first a road trip to Summit
Look at the caked up rubber. Smelled GREAT cutting through it...
Almost there.... I have to decide What to do about the 2 foot section from the front wheel back. Think I'll chop chop that right on out, its got the sickness in side. I wanted to do one section at a time, so I would have something left to line things up.
Get the IR, you wont be sorry! Your arms will thank you too. You actually have less rust than I'm dealing with on Luke's Chevy. The reason the drain holes are less rusty is because the water did run out and the metal dried there, the rest stayed wet.
Here is the brand wizzer wheel that cuts great and last longest of any I have used so far.
I buy them at the welding supply store near me. Keen Welding Supplies. sorry don't know if they have a web site. the Walter grinding disk last longer also......
Get the IR, you wont be sorry! Your arms will thank you too. You actually have less rust than I'm dealing with on Luke's Chevy. The reason the drain holes are less rusty is because the water did run out and the metal dried there, the rest stayed wet.
Makes perfect sense!
I was expecting it to once be MUCH worse than it is. The other side was pretty darn solid.I'm kicking around and idea of installing ports along the back side so I can shoot in sand, air, paint, ect at a later date after its welded up. I'll use some kind of rubber garment thing to plug the whole.
Can you think of any way that would come back and bite me later?
I’ll look around for those wheels – give Walter a spin! - Thanks Wookee!
Never went to Summit last night, got hung up at work. Went home and opted to not weld in the panel yet. I want to replace the pinch weld all along the bottom and POR 15 the inside of that whole cavity anyway. No need to rush this and look like shit in a few years. That would really bend my shaft.
Tonight I have to go play contractor at the other job, won’t make any progress on the van or make it to summit today…..bummer… but it will help pay for the electrician that’s coming out next week to give me an upgrade. After that I can upgrade the air compressor and the fun will really begin (waiting on air sux).
It still doesn’t seem like work - Having a blast! Thanks for all the support!
Turn key, auto up to ride height, gotta go. Park it and Slam it...
Anyone ever tub the front wheel wells?? I messured the head room, if I want to slam it I cant chop the top. I think.... I could make it work by bringing the wheel wells up in the van several more inches.
That is going to be a bit of an investment to make it go up and down. Not in a big hurry.
I spent a bunch of hours in research and brain storming. The technology has come a LONG way since flipping your springs or blocking it. They make sensor and auto level and all this crap now. The amount of technology implemented in the system depends on what you want to spend. I have been mulling it over in my head for several years. I like the look when it’s parked and slammed more or less on the ground, however I wouldn’t necessarily want to drive it down the road like that.
I want to finish the exterior body work first and get it in primer – That is priority #1 at this point. BUT - the front wheel wells are a factor in dropping it. If I'm going to modify those, now is the time *sigh*. And that’s where I’m at now, I need to crawl around and take more measurements and pics and stuff. Don’t worry, I have plenty of hours of exterior work in front of me, I’ll keep staring at and thinking.
I’m on the hunt for pics of the underside and inside the front doors of a slammed early.
Randy cut the wells in Showtime to lower it. I would think that VanGo also has the wells cut to slam that on the ground.
That's prolly why Vango had wooden seats. Had to control head space. Even on my early Fords I had to watch what seats I purchased. Some seats thickness' were too high. Put my head into the roof.....
You only need 3"inches of travel.3 link suspension could work front an rear with air bag,controls,air tank,complete delux kit less than $900. Look at my build of neverenough 3 link youl get the picture. Number 9 has corvette 18"front 19"rear without cutting up the front welds and its low with enough travel.
You only need 3"inches of travel.3 link suspension could work front an rear with air bag,controls,air tank,complete delux kit less than $900. Look at my build of neverenough 3 link youl get the picture. Number 9 has corvette 18"front 19"rear without cutting up the front welds and its low with enough travel.
The website is www.vanning.com/neverenough The air ride kit is in TRUCKIN volume36 no.13 page 92 the issue with your burnout at the NATS
Wild! That's pretty cool seeing the build process! I'll check out the mag and look into 3 link suspension options. I didn't realize you could put a three link in the front. Thanks!
Anyone know what kind of auto cad software I would need to crunch the numbers to fab my own?
I did finally make it to Summit. It was originally between the Chicago Pneumatic and Ingersoll Rand Wanted the Ingersoll Rand, but didn't have it in stock at that location. The next one up was the Viking and after that the Hutchins. After holding both at the parts counter I concluded the Hutchins had far superior construction. Picked up some more body filler, planning to jam on it pretty hard tonight!
What about having a chassis custom build? Cost prohibitive?!?! Or rip one off of a short wheel base jeep, they made one that was 108" or darn close. Think I could "set" my shell onto a chassis and just weld the two togeather? I've kicked this around before everyone tried to tell me it was impossible... Seeing your build at the NATS is VERY encouraging.
AHHHH HAAAA!! was the first thing out of my mouth...then came the drool.
I'm stoked about the Early chevy build on the corvette chassis. Thats going to be one bad ass ride.
Being your van has an integrated frame, it would not be that easy to do the jeep thing. Plus it would most likely raise your van, and you are trying to lower it.
....buy god I think the 3-link will work. I'll have to have someone else do the welding on that though, my welder is to small. Playing hookie tomorrow to work on my van, should be a nice day.
Alright! Electrician will be on site Friday. That means I can FINALLY order the new air compressor. Hell YEah! Then the fun part, plumbing it all up... ugggg, lol.
I need to score a tube bender, I want to be able to bend round and square tubes. Anyone know anything about tube benders? Whats good, whats bad, and why? I'm in the market and clueless.
I'm in need of more product :-) Time to make another run to D&S Color Supply - Those guys rock!
<<cut>> Make complicated bends in round stock and square tubing easily with this unique bender! Includes everything needed to produce smooth kink-free bends. Mounts to workbench or clamps in vise. Features cast-iron construction, threaded adjustment, and extension handle for leverage.
Includes 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 9/16", 3/4" and 7/8" round dies; 3/4" and 1" square tubing dies. 0.8-1.2 mm pipe wall thickness. 61 lbs. <<paste>>
<<cut>> Includes 7 round dies (1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2", 1-3/4", 2", 2-1/2", 3") and 1 right-angle die. Bends 5/16" x 1-1/4" or 1/4" x 2" mild steel or 5/8" solid round or square rod. The 44" telescoping handle offers extra leverage to bend heavier materials <<paste>>
If it bends solid round and square Rod can I still bend tube?
I thought TP tools sold a hydrolic bender too, but cant find it now...
HF -
Not a big HF fan, and this things on back order. but has a add on square die set... Tubing Roller
I thikn what I'm really interested in is the ability to make persision bends with smaller metal tubes... square and round.
I'm not planning on opening a muffler house :-) It woudl be cool to have a hydrolic bender, but thats not the driving force here. I need ot bend 1/4-1/2" square tube to an almost 90 degree bend.... about the same angle as the corner of a '68 dodge van side window. 3/4 is too big, 1/2 is close, 1/4 would be perfect. I made a template last night....
.... I always wanted to build a radical oldskool chopper.... I keep pushing it out of my mind. one project at a tiem is enough for me... but some day man... ground up custom chopper build. none of this buy a frame and bolt parts on crap....thats lame. I'm talking a REAL custom chopper. They did such cool creative shit back in the day.
.... I always wanted to build a radical oldskool chopper.... I keep pushing it out of my mind. one project at a tiem is enough for me... but some day man... ground up custom chopper build. none of this buy a frame and bolt parts on crap....thats lame. I'm talking a REAL custom chopper. They did such cool creative shit back in the day.
Anyway, Price is a big thing when choosing tools like these. Small tubing and rod can be bent using brake tubing benders. Larger material does need larger benders. The roll type benders are nice for doing various size radius's. I looked at the HF one in a store, but it didn't have any size increments on it, so it may be a trial and error type thing to adjust it? I'm not sure, they may have had a stick on thing that the store just didn't put on it. The blue unit that TIP has looks like a nice unit and (without reading all the details) looks like you use a different shoe for each radius you want to bend? If so, that's very nice. The others (on the stand) look to be a bend till it looks right type of unit.
That all being said, the price of one unit may or may not make a huge difference in the one you buy.
Like you say, you are not starting a shop, so you need to decide if extra money for limited use is what you really want.
Be sure to read return policies as well in case you find you don't like the way they work.
A little side note, I saw a video one time of Jesse James building a custom bike from scratch. He built a radiused form out of a sheet of plywood and bent his frame rails to shape by hand and heated the tubing with a torch if it was too hard to bend. You don't always need fancy tools either.
.... I always wanted to build a radical oldskool chopper.... I keep pushing it out of my mind. one project at a tiem is enough for me... but some day man... ground up custom chopper build. none of this buy a frame and bolt parts on crap....thats lame. I'm talking a REAL custom chopper. They did such cool creative shit back in the day.
Now I have to plumb this sucker up and hook up the power. The run from the breaker to the compressor will be less than 50'. The owner’s manual indicates 10 Gauge wire is the minimum recommended. I'm worried about the start up draw, but I'm not sure if it’s really an issue my scenario or not. How long does the power run from the source to the destination have to be before I need to increase wire gauge? (The cost pretty much doubles from 10 to 8)
You don't have to worry about voltage drop until after 100 feet. Which means you don't have to increase wire size...... Unless you plan to run Aluminum wire.
Size the breaker for what it calls for. The breakers are designed for a surge on start up of a motor, so it wont be an issue.
.... I always wanted to build a radical oldskool chopper.... I keep pushing it out of my mind. one project at a tiem is enough for me... but some day man... ground up custom chopper build. none of this buy a frame and bolt parts on crap....thats lame. I'm talking a REAL custom chopper. They did such cool creative shit back in the day.
Good deal! I found a better chart in the documentation, for my motor on Single phase @ 230V I'll need to run the 8 guage wire. I got a unit with a prewired magnetic starter, all I have to do is supply power to the starter.
Thanks for clarifying the distance limitations.
Did you guys use flexible hose to connect the outlet port on your compressors to your plant piping?
PVC would be cheaper, easier, and faster....but.. Im under the impression the iron will cool the air more effectivly and it just seems more durable over all. Luckly, I dont have far to go :-)
I have Iron, a dryer and everything pitched and filtered, and on hot days running air tools for a long time, I'll still get water. Do the best you can and what you can afford and oil your tools regularly and you'll be fine.
Power and pipe is connected, clover made a custom flexible hydraulic line to go between the compressor and the plumbing.
Timed the Zero to 170 PSIG fill time, 7 min 22 seconds. I marked that on the side of the tank for later reference. Think I'm going to fiddle with the pressure switch and turn it down to something more reasonable, like 145. Then re-time and record.
HOLY CRAP! Its full throttle time, I can really run the DA now ;-) Hoping to really jam on the van this weekend. No more standing around waiting on air. July isnt that far away... gotta get my ass in gear.
I dont know about this, almost seems like too much. Maybe I could soften it a bit use similar to stock material and paint it to match the final color instead of the same shiny stuff on the bottom....? chop chop...
....Could do away with the stock grill part all togeather and replace it with something else.
cut it all out and install a early corvette grill or merc grill .
I wanted a merc grill, like from a '52. The bad news is, those are a good chunk of change for a grill in "good" (shity IMO) condition. Its pot metal cast and that makes restoration a bit costly.
I've even looked at just buying a set of teeth. I'll probubly start cutting and welding proto type grills soon... ..in my spare time... lmao.
cut it all out and install a early corvette grill or merc grill .
I wanted a merc grill, like from a '52. The bad news is, those are a good chunk of change for a grill in "good" (shity IMO) condition. Its pot metal cast and that makes restoration a bit costly.
I've even looked at just buying a set of teeth. I'll probubly start cutting and welding proto type grills soon... ..in my spare time... lmao.
well some things are worth saving up for if they make a big difference in the Van . Just my two cents
PVC pipe for air tanks no go in my lil world of happiness. i busted one of the lines at work... they have 4 air compressors... plumbed into the same lines... we like having air at work ;) however hearing all 4 aircompressors drop there payload when that line busted... whew! jet taking off. hahaha
anyway Brewwww looking damn good man. keep up the good work. Honestly i like the windows
I'm looking at a early corvet grill right now. Not nearly as costly as the desoto's and IMO looks much cooler. I messured, it will fit ;-) the '53-57 corvette grills are 40" wide 7-1/2" tall in the center
Alright!!!!! Its been a while. I need to upload pics of progress. I have made more progress and a LOT of dust. Almost done with the passenger side, going to finish welding up seams and holes on the front this weekend.
I really like the no bumper clean look in the front but couldn’t figure out what to do with the license plate. I had several ideas but none are really ideal. Then... what looking at Suicide door hinge kits I found this:
For get the car, but check out that license plate!! How cool is that?
I'll post pics of progress later.
Gotta skate on over to the Fire Extinguisher place before it closes today and pick up two 5# tanks so the local fire inspector can sign off on my garage. Yeah, the officials showed up the other day Low and behold the parcel that this garage is on zoned for commercial use so I have to deal with a bunch of anticipated bull shit. Not that a fire extinguisher is a bad idea, I have one… but apparently it’s too small. I’m going into pick up two 5# certified tanks and put one at each end of the garage, $64.74 a pop – Jeeeeeeze…. I guess I’ll put the small one I currently have in my van. After Clovers engine fire on the way down to VanJam I’m a believer. Thank god we put his out quickly, I’m taking no chances.
Ok, got the fire extinguishers. Good golly, $140 out the door.
Yeah I didn’t care for it being visible when “hidden”. Ahhhh - Details…..
So, back to the hiding the front door hinges. Kits sell for about $250-400. $400 Seems kinds steep for a some bent metal and a bushing. Doesn’t seem to be much too it, I make take a stab at fabricating my own like this cat did:
I'd just go for it!! Make'm up. Do few extra sets if you have the material and, I'm sure there will be at least a few people wanting them. Your doing a "F*@#ing SAWEEET" Job on that Early. Can't wait to see it, again!!!
SOB, never fails... I ran out of welding gas on Sunday. I was just having a good'ol'time then all of a sudden, wtf, something not right here?!?! Gave up and went fishing - I caught nothing and got rained on.
I ran to the welding shop on my lunch break and I got another tank. Cant wait to go home and weld more holes up.
I removed the metal backing for the head lights. I'm glad I did, had lots of rust in there between the plates, especially around the lower half. The original reason was to get a better look at the front pillars. It gave me room to weld up those hard to reach spots around the bottom of the head lights and floor - front - grill spots. Looks like I poked it's eyes out.
I really hoped to be further along by mid may. Oh well... Might be Slow and Steady...Its sill progress. I'll have to harrass Clover about gettign me pics. He has been taking pics hotos for me after I destroid my phone.
Wish I had a video of me doing the hot pants shuffle last night. I was sitting in a folding foot stool thing just welding away..... Some hot metal hit my upper thigh, burnt through my pants. Before I really noticed it rolled down the inside of my leg and to the middle of the back of my leg. At that point I stood up and it ran down my leg twards my foot as I did the hot pants shuffle across the garage. Gravity Still works!
It was pretty funny after the fact....not so much at the time.
....ohhh I always use a mask or goggles... But Shirts, Pants, & Gloves are optional
Last night was awesome! Clover, Dr. Rosh, and I got a lot done in a short amount of time, 8pm-1:30am. Henry Ford was early on the assembly line. I was welding, they guy next in line was grinding, the guy after that was filling and sanding. It was wild! You should see some of these patch panels, fit like a glove and more straight than the original metal. I’ll harass Clover again to give me the pics to post. I have to work later again tonight and swap out a firewall but after that, it’s back to the garage. I was getting a bit discouraged there for a few weeks, working all the time instead of doing stuff in the garage. If we can keep this pace this it would be awesome! Even started welding up seams on the inside Door jams are looking good too. I’ll have to figure out what to do with all that seam sealer I picked up….won’t be needing that.
I went and picked up more wire and a set of gloves on saturday....and I ran out of welding gas again on Sunday... Always on a Sunday. Maybe I should keep a backup tank in stock.
Great pictures. Nice to have friends helping out I bet. I'm glad to see you graduated to dust masks and eye protection. You don't grow new lungs or eyes when the old ones are broken!
Damn. Lot of documentation with the pics. Very cool. Usually I would say alcohol and power tools are not a good thing but you guys are kicking ass on this project. Way cool.
Great pictures. Nice to have friends helping out I bet. I'm glad to see you graduated to dust masks and eye protection. You don't grow new lungs or eyes when the old ones are broken!
Dr. Rosh seems to really be diggin the body work / metal fab thing, he has spent a lot of hours in there with me. Clover is starting to hang out in the garage more too. The other guys swing by from time to time and check on the progress. The extra help is definitely appreciated. Eye protection is a good idea, I had a few close calls and decided it wasn’t worth it. That’s when I discovered the OSHA glasses, I can see out of those much better than the face shield. Respirators are needed, spent a few days hacking shit up and I don’t want to do that again. The paper ones are ok, but don’t work well, ya really need a full blown gizmo. After trying to sleep with ringing in my ears from grinding I picked up ear plugs and muffle ear things. I hope they have aftermarket replacement body parts when I get old, but until then I gotta make these last.
Originally Posted by nautic1
Damn. Lot of documentation with the pics. Very cool. Usually I would say alcohol and power tools are not a good thing but you guys are kicking ass on this project. Way cool.
Thanks! We are having a lot of fun. Yeah, I determined if you drink too much booze, you just end up standing around staring at the van and get nothing done. You need just enough to kill the monotony of grinding and sanding. Too much and ya just F stuff up and create more work for yourself – just say no to reverse progress. I drink a lot of coffee in there. Too much of that doesn’t help either. I POUND the water though; I get so thirsty in there and sweat it out pretty quick.
I'm want to go buy a brake this week so I can get started on the windows. I have got a plan of attack!
2 day ground shipped a set of suicide hinges. I wanted to go to summit and man handle them first, but they didnt have any in stock here in Ohio. However, they did had one set in the Nevada warehouse, and the sales guy said I can return them to the retail store here if it wouldnt work for my application. I couldnt find the actual demensions anywhere online. The MFG did not offer an a lot of info and the install destructions dont go into detail (wtf?). I'll xerox the actual hindge to a PDF file and post it.
Mill Supply, Inc. is not far from me. I went ahead and ordered two pt# 81-64-54 (#54 in the pic). That should fix the big whole on the driver side. Once they arrive I'll go pick them up, no point in paying for the shipping. They said a week to 10 days.
I got a call last night that the panels came in. Drove over there at lunch all excited, I looked at the panels and said, “these are for an econoline, they go on a Ford – I got a Dodge.” Sure enough the panel was mislabeled. Gee whiz, I’m glad I didn’t have them paid for and shipped to me. Imagine trying that over the phone. The guy was really cool though. I told him I wasn’t in a rush and he said he would get me the nice guy discount. Works for me.
Good news is the Suicide Hinges arrived today. This is going to be a LOT of fun. These suckers a bigger and heavier than I imagined they would be. One of the engineers I work with is a car guy and had a 68 Dodge van back in the day, he’s diggin the build. He said he would stay late one of these nights and create a CAD drawing of the hinge for me.
First I had to get the the door back on and lined up. Then I took it apart to check for clearance inside. I was up till 1:30 Friday eye balling it every which way. Went back down Saturday AM and looked at it some more, then picked up the sharpie and cut off wheel....
Removed bushings and arm from the suicide hinges. I cut a 3/8" round rod to run through the hinge holes and keep the two lined up nicely. After everythign was where I wanted it I started marking and chopping. Lots of test fitting.
After getting everthign fitting well, I flipped it around and inserted it into the front through the head light bowl.
I cut square 3/4" tube and welded it in for support. (I'm going to reinforce the whole jam when I'm done)
Afer that I removed the rod and installed the hindges and pins. Tested it by clamping a square to it and moving it around on the bench. Happy with the results, I stuffed the whole thing back in the head light bowl. After a last line up, with magnets in place... I tacked it in.
Retested the swing using a clamped on metal square.
Hot Damn!
From there I started welding. I have more square tube to cut and attach.
As ewe say....."I don't know what I'm doing!".....but, "Ewer making history!" I don't know of anyone who would have tackled this project as ewe have. Keep up the good work & may the force be with ewe.....
Ahhh, I forgot to toss the empty gas tank in the car this am befor eleavign for work. :-( bummer man. That means I cant swap out until tomorrow. ....bit of a drag.....
However, the UPS dude should be delivering the new grill today! I can stand around and eye ball that tonight.
One place I really F'ed up is I welded the backing plate to the bracket (inside the door). This was done with the door closed and original hinges still in place. I though doing this would insure the door would sit in the same place when I cut off the stock hinges. What I didn’t account for is that was BEFORE the weight of the door was being applied to the new hinges, and was still being supported via the stock ones.
When I open the door, there is about a 1/2 in sag at the end of the door. I'm going to try and lessen it by reinforcing the inside as best I can without adding a lot more weight.
Had I not welded that backing plate on I might have been able to adjust it just enough to compensate for the sag. If all else fails I could try remove the welds and free the plate (reverse progress).
Other than that minor detail I'm happy with it, just gotta decrease the sag.
One other long term concern is…. How the hell would I replace the hinge bushing? The originals lasted 40+ years. With a little luck these will last 10+ years.
Looks like you did a nice job. I was wondering why you welded them totally on. Adjustments will be a bit more difficult. Couple questions, Why didn't you use the stock hinge location? Will the headlights and buckets still fit back in? Any reason you didn't actually suicide them?
Looks like you did a nice job. I was wondering why you welded them totally on. Adjustments will be a bit more difficult. Couple questions, Why didn't you use the stock hinge location? Will the headlights and buckets still fit back in? Any reason you didn't actually suicide them?
a.) Yeah... I shouldnt have welded it up all the way. Seemed like a good idea that the time, Now I have to try and free that up.
b.) The stock hindge locations would have been the BEST placement. Unfortunatly, the stock hinge was holding the door on until the very end. I looked at putting the hindges just above and below the stock locations. I did not do this because that just happened to be the inner most curve and was worried abtou clearance issues. Looking back I think that may have worked.
c.) Head light buckets will fit back in. Its a little tight. I might need to shave 1/4" off a bump in the back corner of the bucket. That was one of the first things I checked before tack welding the hinge boxes to the frame.
d.) I considered it for a long time and in the end decided against it. I was worried about the gullwing on the passanger side + a suicide door looking funny or too over the top. More importantly I was worried about the ability to get out of the driver seat. That's a BIG steering wheel, and I would have to open the door the full 90 degrees just to "slip out" the driver side. That would make exiting in a parking lot nealry impossible without damaging something.
The other factor in not suiciding the swing is placement on the rear jam and the internal guts of the door, like the windows and track and stuff. There was a LOT of room inside on the most forward portion of the door.
Lots of work. I agree with Kens concerns. The placement of the hinges so close together may come back to haunt you. More than likely this is the cause for the 1/2" drop or sag. You can make some adjustments with a 2 x 4 under the bottom of the door but you may screw up your gap. Gotta appreciate the work. I give you a lot of credit.
step back and really look hard at the door. get some body to move it up and down for you(a long 2X4pulling up from the bottom or the door opening at the rear) and watch for any flexing around where you mounted your hinges..... You might be able to add some heavier flat stock(3/16 or so) inside the front of the doors inner sheet metal along with some support gussets. look close at where you stock hinges are mounted there should be heavier metal in that area. These kind of problems drive the engineer types crazy.They know or think they know all the answers when doing fab work.It looks great on paper and figures out well.When it is made up problems arise then they are lost....... That's where a field savvy welder/fabricator comes in and fixes things for them...... This is the really neat thing about welding fabrication work.The more you do the more you learn.
I was also kinda worried about the head light bucket clearance........
I almost forgot the gas tank at home in this morning. Turned around to go get it and I'll swap it out at lunch.
Wookee, that is the pickle. I need to determine if the hinge to frame mount point is flexing or the hinge to door is the flex point. I'm going to try and reinforce the door, and freeing up the adjustment plates that I welded up (doh!). If that doesn’t pan out, it has out be hinge placement. Its not too late to install the second set of hinges closer to the stock mounting points and try again. Then go back and salvage the first set. At the stock mount points, the metal is twice as thick, and a multibend plate was added for vertical/lateral support.
I'm not giving up on this at all. Its gonna happen, it will just take more resources than I anticipated. By the time I make it over to side two, I'll have some idea what not to do
Superbeast, I was holding the grill in the hole, and clover was taking pics. Its definitely an interesting look. Think I would like to recess it just a smidge more but I'm not sure. I want to design a support bracket / mounting bar (on the inside of the cavity) that comes down from the top and then out towards the front. If I can cook up something like that I can make the grill "float" in the hole. That is the current brain storm, I have plenty of time to stand there and look at it.
…so… It doesn’t look like I'll be driving it to the NATS this year. Its a little disappointing, but I refuse to compromise the end result over time. I got time... Just means I'll have to drive it to WI next year (but I was planning on going anyway)
I keep going over the steps and reasoning used at the time to do what I did. It just occurred to me I could have condemned myself from the start. Initially, I had the doors removed. That means to start I needed to reattach them and alight them. I recall having some difficulty with this. There seemed to be 1 /4 “ sag at that point. Opened and closed but I could notice a offset in the body lines. To remedy that I re-attached the latch. I had to play with that for a while to get it to close. Too high it wouldnt shut, too low the it didnt look stright when it was closed. I got it to where I could hold the door open let go and it would close fully on its own. The latch seemed to pull the door up and in just enough to line up dead nuts on with the body lines. Thinking I was good I left it there. Maybe I should have kept playing with it. (But it seems like I screwed with that first step for hours.)
As far as the 2x4 goes to move the door that seems workable if someone else is around. Moving the door and watching to see what else moves is a good idea. I think I’ll start there. If I have to do this by myself, maybe I could right up a pulley / block’n’tackle rig from one of the ceiling beams and tie a rope around the door. Think that would work or am I just creating more variables?
Clover tried to talk me into suicide swinging the doors before I had cut anything. I said that it was not ideal to get out of in a parking lot. He looked at me funny and asked me if I was old or something and if combfort had become a priority in my life.....
I'd like to think not.
Its not too late really suicide them. I have another set of hinges on hand and coudl always order more if the two I installed cant be salvaged. (should be, but if not, oh well) The bigger issue is the guts in the door and distance between hinge locations.
I cant wait to go home and re-evaluate the situation. Mayeb I can fix whay I have, maybe not. Worst case, I'll write off last weekend as a learning experiance. Chalk that one up there and try again.
Either way..... the exterior hinges are history. I'm very determined.
Got more MIG welding gas at lunch. Really wish I had a plasma cutter......
Its really weird. We took turns lifting the door. The only thing that shows signs of movement are the hinge arm and the hinge pin/bushing holder. How about that? It appears to be primarily the top hinge. I remember out of 4 hinges that one seemed to move the most smoothly out of the box. I tried increasing the torq, that didn’t solve the wiggle in the hinge. I could try replacing the bushing and see if that makes a bit of difference. Or I could just start over. If I start over I can either use the stock hinge mount points as the location for the new hinges or…. Work around the clearance issues and really suicide them – either way it is about the same amount of work. One advantage to suiciding the doors is easy access to the bushing pins for future replacement. The only concern is that I may end up in the same boat, the two extra hinges that have not been installed also show some signs play at the bushing tube. Whats the deal with that?
This sounds like my situation.....but the only thing I see moving is the Whole hinge arm movin gup and down. Baffled.
"After the door is fastened in place you are ready to test it out, you will notice the door dropping about a 3/8 to a ½ inch when it slides off the factory hinge. This is happening because the inner door skin is flexing out due to the weight of the door. Proper bracing and stiffening of the inner door skin will come later. That is small potatoes compared to getting the door aligned to perfection."
Do you suppose "inner door skin" is refering to the door that sits flush to the frame/door jam or the inside door skin next to the passangers right arm?
I'm thinking the frame door jam just like Wookee was saying.
Well, sounds like you are thinking like a customizer
You did nothing wrong from the start. aligning the door perfectly was the best place to start.
That being said. I've heard on a number of occasions that the kit hinges SUCK! I had hoped you got a good set. There was a post on here somewhere though, of a quality set you can make on your own. If you decide to start over, you should spread the hinges out to the factory locations. I feel that a good portion of your issue is the hinge locations are too close. Plus, leave them adjustable. You can compensate for a little sag, buy adjusting them toward each other.
I got the Autoloc kit and spent way more money than a bent chunk of metal is worth. I am kinda pissed off, but still hoping I just f'd up somewhere. I dont want to blame the MFG yet. I could Try another kit like the one from QAR, or Fab my own (which IMO would be cooler, but could be of better or poorer quality) I might try a few things and see what happens.
The part that I'm worried about is bending the arm. Its thick steel, atleast 1/4". First thought is vise attache a long lever, apply lots of heat and pull down. Seems like I only get one chance to bend it straight. Could make a jig thing to keep the bar aligned. Anyone have Metallurgy background? Would heating and bending steel bar like that weaken the steel?
Maybe the muffler house dude has a flat plate thing for his hydrolic bender.... trade him a case of beer or something to bend 4 steel bars.
Makes me want to quit my job and just play around in the grarage all day..... C'mon lotto....
Is there a truck called “Suicidal Tendencies” yet ? If I get the doors flopping and the suspension modified for bagging it really might be a suicide ride If things feel under control you’re just not going fast enough!
Gotta think outside of the box! I think that ewe've gotta spread the hinges farther apart. Distribute the weight of the door. Hang it differently. Maybe even hang it as if it were a Gull Wing. Might even check into hinges like an auto trunk uses, only sideways.....
They don't need to be bent. You could use 2 pieces and weld the corner. I would try and see if you can tighten the bushings some way and relocate them farther apart before throwing in the towel on them.
I normally use door hinges from a 1956 era F-series Ford pickup. Not sure exactly which one without looking it up but I think that most any Ford pickup in that era has the same style hinge. They are heavy duty but you must built the mounting locations yourself, which is not really that big of deal. It is probably less work than what you did to install the others. The straight edge method is used to align them. If by chance I attempt to move my project van to storage next week I will take some pictures. I used them to hinge a cut down sliding door on a 1979 Chevy van.
I normally use door hinges from a 1956 era F-series Ford pickup. Not sure exactly which one without looking it up but I think that most any Ford pickup in that era has the same style hinge. They are heavy duty but you must built the mounting locations yourself, which is not really that big of deal. It is probably less work than what you did to install the others. The straight edge method is used to align them. If by chance I attempt to move my project van to storage next week I will take some pictures. I used them to hinge a cut down sliding door on a 1979 Chevy van.
So you are here? For how long? Would be GREAT to see you while you are here. Dunno when I could squeeze in a road trip though
I normally use door hinges from a 1956 era F-series Ford pickup. Not sure exactly which one without looking it up but I think that most any Ford pickup in that era has the same style hinge. They are heavy duty but you must built the mounting locations yourself, which is not really that big of deal. It is probably less work than what you did to install the others. The straight edge method is used to align them. If by chance I attempt to move my project van to storage next week I will take some pictures. I used them to hinge a cut down sliding door on a 1979 Chevy van.
Alright…. Suicide swing of the doors would be difficult. Difficult, but not completely impossible, words like that are reserved for people with no imagination. The primary issue I’m faced with is the window glass and window track is in the way of where I wanted to place the hinges. I was shooting for just below the window behind the passenger’s door and right about where the stock latch would sit. That would have been ideal, if you ignore the details of the guts in the door. If I didn’t tinker with the glass and the rails - I could mount both hinges more toward the center, pretty much opposite of my first attempt. I’m just concerned I’ll run into a similar issue. It could be done, but at this point I’m going to stick with just hiding the hinges and having the door open and close as it would normally. (The original goal.)
I’m back at it again. Working on lining up the new hinges in more or less the same place as the stock ones. Last night I started marking, measuring, and cutting more holes in my van. With a little luck and persistence by Monday I’ll have pictures and a tale of success laced with blood, sweat, and spilled beer. Good Times!
It’s still under construction. I did manage to get to adjust the sag and could close the door nicely but rubbed at one point near the bottom. Had I not welded on the backing plate like a rtard that would have been adjustable. I worked around the bucket clearance issues by shaving the hinge pockets instead of the bucket (It was a waste of time but I got personal satisfaction out of the deal. It would have worked )
After lessons learned form the first attempt, I started mounting the new hinge pockets and removing the old ones. I had to chop the first attempt up to make room to run the alignment rod to both pockets. I cooked up a way to hold the door in place with no hinges. Slow and Steady.…
I had to play a bunch of games to get the placement just right due to the curves of the body. Difficulty was compounded by having to align the hinges perfectly with each other. I may have some difficulty putting the turn signal light back in, not the body part, but the actual turn signal bulb housing. Sounds like a fine time for a low profile LED conversion. After Test fit, retest fit, file a little more off, test fit again, tack welded, and then tested the swing for bind or resistance. Swings REALLY nice. Next step is aligning the door back on and making the holes for the side pockets inside the door. (think I got dust on my lense)
Updates. Worked on it a little while before and after CBS. Finished reinforcing things and started to button it up on the back and in the middle. I haveto keep the top and bottom open until I'm done, otherwise I cant get to the hinge pins ;-) Now I can play around with the door. After I'm happy with how the door lines up I'll take it off for the last time and Glass & fill the jam. Make it super clean and smooth.
The mock door hang lines up nice. I'm using the original latch on the handle end of the door, and 3/8's bolts in the original hinge bolt holes to lines things up. I need to go back and buy bolts that are about 1-2" longer.
One of the problems with using the stock hinge mount point locations is space. The hinges I installed had to be located further inward on the vehicle than they really should be. I had to do this because of the body bend at the corner. It was a tight fit. Due to the placement the hinge arm will not actually be flush with the inside edge the door. It will sit right up against it. This means I’ll be building a bit of support frame work around the hinge arm boxes on the inside of the door. (I’ll post pics after I get that far that will make more sense.) No show stopper - just more work.
Honestly, I’m still partial to my first attempt of middle hinge placement. Had I not welded up the GD backing plate, that would have worked out just fine
ohhhhhhh.... thats a really cool concept. That never occured to me. I'll look into it.
The pivot point would be in the door.... hmmm if it didnt cause an issue with clearnec in the jam that would be feesable. the hinge shape is the same so I would like to think it would work. I'll have to play around. Cool idea - that could solve all the clearance issues. There is WAY more room inside the door than inside the nose.
….last night was the moment of truth, I build the support on the door, tack welded in the arm boxes, attached the arms, removed the alignment bolts and tried to open it. Almost…. I was afraid of that…..
Well GD, aint that a bummer. I’ll tell ya what though, that’s one solid front pillar now. HAHA!
The issue is moving the location of the hinge box 1 /2 to an inch further in toward the inside of the van cab to allow clearance for the front body curve hosed me. When I try to open the door, I need about a half an inch more to clear the outermost body curve (the one that aligns with the head light bezel and runs back). This was one of the reasons I didn’t try this the first time around, coupled with the stock hinges still being there and hinge box alignment issues.
Lost another battle, but not the war – Third time is the charm. I have a few options…… I could further investigate flipping the hinge pockets around, where the box mounts in the door and the arm and bracket go in the frame or I can go back to the original placement in the middle. I really liked the original placement, with the exception of the welded up back plate. (do NOT weld on your adjustable back plates!) I can try to salvage the boxes I have. I could order more. Or I can fab my own. Think I’ll buy a saw zaw and a box of blades this weekend, I’m going to need it. Re visiting the middle mounts won’t be bad. What’s left of the boxes that I didn’t chop out are still in the frame and the welded in boxes in the door are still there. I can just cut that out and start over. Think I’m up to around 80 hours and not happy with the results yet. Have I mentioned you don’t want to weld on your adjustable backing plate? That’s where all my trouble started.
I’m not giving up and honestly I’m not terribly discouraged either. You’ll have that - Its Custom! I picked up more MIG gas and more wire. Need a better saw-zall and its game on!
The old one has been abused over the last 15 years. I mean ABUSED, left out in the rain and everything! It still "works", but the blade holder is stripped out. I've had a few close calls in the last few weeks with my fingers and face inches away from the blade when it came dislodged. It had a good run.
….killing time at work waiting to go chop my van up some more… oh the suspense…its killing me.
In the back of my mind I have ideas of things I would like to do to the van. One of those is air baggin it, the back is no big deal, but the solid axle in the front is an issue. I could do a 3 or 4 link kit thing on the front, not sure which would work out better. These guys sell a few: http://qualityairride.com/catalog/4-link-kits/thorbecke-brothers
Do you suppose I could install a link system on the front axle, but backwards to how it would be installed on the rear? Or does it have to be installed facing forward just like the rear would? (not much room in front of the axle going toward the nose of the van.
The most cost effective and easiest way would be to rip most or almost all the leaf springs out and slap a bag on top of the leaf to axle mount and the rail above it. Do you suppose that’s “safe”? I mean if I’m raising and lowering it a bunch that seems like it would really put more stress on the leaf than intended. Granted it supports the full weight of the van now, but, let’s say, I only left the one main leaf on each side? IF that broke there would be nothing to keep the axle from shifting backwards (right? wrong?) But would it break? If it broke on the freeway, the way I drive, I’d kill someone for sure.
I’ll have to crawl around under it and measure stuff and take pictures.
From what you are explaining it does sound like you will have to use the center (first ones) hinge location. The hinges need to be shaped differently, to ope properly if using the stock hinge positions? Would it be possible to change the shape of the flat bar and leave the boxes as you already have them? Wish you were closer.
As far as the air bagging, yes, you can add a 4 link to the front, but it would be pretty expensive. The way you stated with the factory leafs and bags would work. You only really need the main leaf (the one with the bolts on both ends) and the others are only added to support the weight. When you remove the rest of the leafs, the support will be taken over by the added bags. Keep in mind the location of the bags will directly effect the height of the van as well as how much air you have in them. Also, leaving the main leaf and adding the bags, may not lower the van as much as you want.
It took me a moment, but I think I get what you mean about changing the shape of the flat bar. I’ll have to think about that one. I left those boxes in place and un cut up. Hmmmmm….
I rebuilt the middle boxes that I had chopped in half; re-aligned the hinges and got the arms moving together without bind last night. But then I ran out of grinding wheels and stopped working on that and went back to the filler work on the driver side.
I ran into a buddy of mine over the weekend and he does a lot of fabrication work by trade. He said the same thing about air bagging the leaf spring and that I wouldn’t be able to lay it on the ground. If I’m going to spend the time and money it would suck to regret not being able to put it on the ground later. Then he started going into the geometry and with the position of the axle and the short nose and how that is way different that a car or pickup truck. He understands the theory and has done it before and is buying a new shop in the next few months. I’ll probably enlist his help/services for that one. I assured him that I have many many months of work before I’ll be anywhere near ready for that
Vango is laying rockers on the ground. To do that he modified the sospension AND did a "body drop"
most guys who do dropped suspensions are lost when it comes to leaf spring/straight front Axel set ups.Just because not too many out there to do.Or people will the pay the extra money to have them done
In theory a trailing/truck arm set up will work on the front and back.The only problem is in the front when it is dropped it will throw the center of the axel off.(the center will lean forward).As long a all the geometry ti right when it is at right height there should be no problems.You might also need to set the engine back a bit for clearance. Again Vango also did this. using a trailing arm set up up front you could use the factory spring mount.and fab up the arms.heavy wall square or round tube could be used. a pan hard bar of some type.would also have to be made up. as far as bags go I have seen a set of bags (not air shocks) with shocks built into them.Of coarse your front wheel wells will need to be changed to support the weight.a C notch is more than likely needed so all of that can be done at that same time. Like your hidden hinges you are going to places not many early owners have gone. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done.....
Man-O-Man, I wish I would have made it out to the CofC to see Vango in person. That is one slick van! Its really a work of art that moves. My hats off to him. He will be at the NATS, right? I had no idea he even moved the motor back.
I sat and pondered for a long long time.... what has not been done yet, the list seemed pretty short (didnt really consider the reasons why ). Ironically it was all things that I thought would be cool, just had to work out the details. Now I know why some of these things havent been done yet. Its not easy.
The side and rear doors? I have plans for that too but I'm not ready to spill the beans yet. ;-)
Thanks for everyones in put! and remember.... DO NOT weld on your adjustment backing plates. hehehe
If I ever get the 2nd bay in my shop open. I really want to build a box tube frame for my early. This way I can get every thing figured out and built then when it is ready to roll cut the box tube unibody frame rails out from under my van and set the body right down on the new frame rails. double trailing arm set up with a mini tub in the rear. Tucking a set of 10 inch deep disk wheels with 295/50/15's meats would look killer.I saw a set of deep dish 18inch wheels on a van a couple of weeks ago that would look killer also. Keep the straight front Axel just to be different.(up date it with disk brakes and a power rack).
Talk to Coop about Vango, he studied that van up and down, especially the hinges and took a ton of pictures. He's also building an A100 so he might be able to give you some tips. We're not likely to see Vango at the Nats.
Body drops where done by the pickup guys allot. again it is allot easier to do a cab/bed of a pickup. I think Howard (on the road) has meet the owner of the Econoline from the VV thread.......
There where some pictures Van Go posted here, early in it's build.In the one picture you can see the added sheet metal at the cab door,need to do the body drop. I went looking for them and could not find them again....
The van in the Vintage-vans thread is Mike Cotten's. That's the van whose rendering has been in both Hot Rod and Street Trucks. Friend him on Facebook and he will likely answer any questions, good chance he'll be at the Nats but without the Econo.
WOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!! It CAN be done! Sorry no pics yet, my phone battery was too low last night and wouldn’t allow me to take any snaps. ;-(
ok, got the hinge pockets I chopped up re-aligned and welded in. The arm pockets in the door have been copped out and relocated, replacing the set from attempt #1 that I had welded into the middle of the door (and seriously reinforced). All that tacked into place, making sure not to weld on my backing plate ;-) Removed the bolts that I was using to line the door up to the frame. Hot Damn! the door opens and closes....hehe...again. I need to reinforce the door, make a few minor alignment adjustments and then clean up the mess I made in the process. Poor lil swiss cheese door, have'em patched up in a jiffy. Looking back, I took the long road to get here, but I got to try multiple configurations and in the end determined my first attempt works best for me. That was fun.
I still haven’t decided if I want to cut the other hinge pockets out (that I welded in on attempt two). I can leave them in the frame, panel over, and order another set. Or chop chop it out. (I still have to do the driver’s side door.)
I also need to figure out the final door latch config. I'm leaning towards shaving the handles and installing poppers.....and how's this one grab ya....POWER windows??? How about that? I haven’t seen that yet. It means more wires and something else that could break, but I won’t have to sit on the dog house while driving to roll the passenger window up or down any more.
I do have a few reservations with shaved locks/handles and keyless entry.
If I throw all that crap out, my battery dies or the solenoid croaks.... Getting in will be tricky. Especially if I panel off the windows, I wouldn’t have much to smash. I have a Slim Jim...but typically woudlnt have that with me on a camping trip.
I could :
- Leave it alone. - Leave just the mechanical lock cylinder as a backup. - Install a mechanical cable thing as a backup. (I REALLY don’t like that idea) - Run an Auxiliary battery system reserved for only popping the doors and cranking the starter. If I leave the stereo or lights on and kill the main battery, I can still get in and start my vans to drive home.
Leaning towards the third option.
Looking forward to a long weekend in the garage! Stock up on water and beer, fire up the AC, blast the tunes, and go to town!
Glad you got the doors worked out. Leave the old ones in. Too much cutting and welding may weaken that really old metal and make more issues for you.
Shave everything. Wire each one separately. Run a jump plug, similar to on tow trucks, somewhere under the van to jump it if you kill the battery. If you need to break a glass do a vent window.
I just smoothed out my rear doors.except for the lock hole I got lucky did not need a popper on that. Right know I only have a strip of used weather strip along the top edge until my new seals get here. That little bit of seal allows the door to open just enough to open it the rest of the way. I do want to install a popper just so when i get the switch installed on the inside I can hit the switch and the door looks like it opens by it as self. tow trucks and race cars use a set of jumper terminals.You can install a set some where close to the battery in case you loose power.(batteries in Early Chevys are in the floor right at the front of the PS rocker panel just clip on a set of jumper cables and you are back in business).
It would be really cool to smooth it all out and be able to open all the doors from the out side with a remote.
Electrical work can intimidate,overwhelm most people. I don't think you are easily intimidated.....
Here are a few pics of the door and a cut off chunk of metal. I did end up picking up a plasma cutter. Thickest stuff I had in the garage was a chunk of a ¼ " thick stock door hinge - cut right through it. I'm still really amazed that it worked THAT well. Wonder what that would do to a hand or an arm?
A jump plug gizmo is a great idea! My battery in the dodgem is right behind the driver seat inside the cab. I keep thinking about building a batter box mount under the floor to free up some internal real-estate. Then the battery can vent itself outside the van too. The only kick in the pants with the jump plug is I need someone to jump me. If I'm camping alone way up in the mountains with no cell service (Back in the day I did this frequently for weeks at a time.) and see only a handful of cars a day…..then I'm kinda hosed. That's where the Auxiliary battery would take the cake. On the flip side, a jump plug would be WAY more cost effective. Hmmm….. for kicks I'll price out both. Not much that could fail using the jump plug though….
I like the clean shaved look. The wiring doesn't scare me. I LOVE electronics, learned to use a soldering iron when I was about 6. I have some really neat plans for internal and external lighting via LED technology and controllers, but that's a WAYS down the road.
Oh ok I get it now! Thanks! I was trying to figure out what people meant about removing from the doors. Great pic - only one I've seen with a front door open.
The wooden seats make more sense now too. That’s about 5 inches or so, about the thickness of a stock seat? I like the steering column too, that’s slick! I supose you would have to do this to ALL the doors?
That is definitely a lot of work. I’m still mentally trying to wrap my mind around the channel concept. I almost get it. So you cut out the all the metal around the frame rails and supporting under carriage. Then somehow suspend the body several inches lower than the original height and rebuild the metal around what was cut out? Leaving the frame at the original height but dropping the body down.
Then....you now have frame rails 5 inches inside the cab of the van, you recreate the floor to make it flush again?
Am I close?
How the heck does one physically raise / lower the body over the “frame”?
Channeling was first done on really early model cars. The body of the car sat on top of the frame. The body was raised off the frame, and channels were cut in the floor of the car and the body was lowered over the frame. This would leave the frame rails inside the cab area, so they would cover the outer edge of the frame with metal and build the floor above the frame rails.
This concept with a uni-body constructed vehicle is a lot more work, but anything is possible. Have a look at Frank Costa's #9. He did a lot of similar work to get his Vette chassis inside his Early.
You don't have to do the entire floor, you can do front section and rear and still have the stock floor height in the middle. The only major issue with doing it that way is location of the drive shaft. Would be different to have a drive shaft tunnel in a van
I was eye ballign this pic.... WTF? the flares are stock? WOW. Thats the coolest thing ford ever did (there I said it ). I guess I never payed attention before.
With the tube style uni body the way the van go owner did a "Body drop" the way it needs to be done. he cut the body loose at the very outer edge where the floor meets the wall/door ways and lowered it.added clean flat steel as fillers.He also had to redo the bottoms of ALL the doors. Frank used a very different aproach and added Corvette Independent suspension to the front and back.While retaining some of the original tube type frame rails When his van is done it will give Van Go a run for it's money....
Thanks VanMachineMan! Seeing a completed early van build without hinges really got me motivated again. I've been slacking and thats what I get. Hitting it HARD again every night. I'll get more pics up of the progress. In the day time I'm doing as much research as I can get away with. No rest for the wicked Bro! 12 hours of my day is wasted on the the day job, prep, and the white knuckle commute. If I can manage get in the garage by 7 pm, I can put in 4-5 hours, sleep for 6 and do it again. It aint fast progress....but its progress....
Frank's early chevy will be sick for sure. That roof he is building is off the hook! I think I litterally drooled on myself at last years Nats crawlign around checking out the suspension. Wish I had gotten more pics. I had Sarah with crawling around in the grass trying to get snaps between the trailer and the van ;-)
OK, so considering all this channeled body drop stuff...... How would a body drop or channeling differ from un-unibody-ing my van (pretty much cut anything below the floor off of it - humor me, hehe) And welding that sucker onto another frame? like say a Jeep Wagoneer?
wheel base: a108 - LWB: 108.0 in (2,743 mm) Wagoneer- 108.7 in (2,760 mm)
IMO, if you want to go that route, you would be better off building a frame from scratch. You could put everything exactly where it needs to go or where you want it.
I agree with Ken. look reall close at how yours vans frame is laid out.It is a very simple rectangle. the way they mounting the straight front and rear axels out they almost eminated the humpsin the frame that a reguale car /truck has for clearance of the rear suspension.
laying out a frame rail with the same foot print as the factory.then adding what ever suspension you want to go with would be a good bit of work.the plus side is you can work it until you get every thing right the remove the box tube uni body and set the van down right on the new frame rails.
going this route you possibilites are vertually end less on the types of suspension set ups you could use.
removing the tube style uni body is what scares MOST good fabricators away from a job like this .....
Clover getting his Grind On! This Guy is a machine with that big ass grinding wheel, wields it with precision.
My cheap zip zip air tool broke, I dropped it on the floor and it became two parts. The air inlet broke and the hose started flopping about with a hard sharp metal thing on the end It was a HF special, I’m really impressed it lasted that long. I’d like to get a nice new air efficient one, but I’m in a jam and don’t feel like driving all the way to summit racing.
I got all the nose panels back on, but still need to install the head light buckets and test fit all the lights again. I’m itching to start in on the filler. I can’t put the middle door panel back on until I’m 100% happy with the door alignment. (I’ll grab a bunch of paint sticks today while I’m out) The top panel of the door, I can’t weld that back in until I figure out how I’m going to convert the windows to power. In the mean time I can finish the door jam and the inside panel of the door. I still need to clean up the mess I made playing with latch placement, chop out the door handle / lock and panel that over.
The grill install is on the docket. I also need to order a set of hinges for the driver side door, once that mess is done I can finish the nose and spin the van around ….. so much to do… so little time.
I'm trying to figure out how to do it with most of the stock window guts undisturbed. I'll get a better idea of how it works after ripping out the door handle and stuff tonight.
I should just go to the bone yard and get some donar guts to play with.
Got the door handle and lock removed. Started welding that up. I REALLY like the shaved look. I'll get some pics, sure enough I ran out of wire at about 1 am Saturday morning. The air gas shop closest to my place is apparently closed now on Saturday - That blows! Saturday afternoon/evening I got roped into helping with a wedding. Wasted all of Sunday trying to recover (but it sure was FUN at the time!)
I did a little scavanging today for pics of early vans getting low.
(Had to do something to kill time waiting to go to the NATS)
Atlast! I found some Vango build snaps
This "steer clear" gizmo is WILD!
Some other Econo front end set ups:
Regardless of how you do it, it does not appear to be an easy task.
Seems to be several Econoline builds happening. I found one Guy doign a A100:
I'm really curious to see what he ends up doing in the front. Sounds like he has some pretty cool ideas!
Alright! We'll I've been dickin around with a new daily driver... workgin two jobs and trying to stay on top of everything for the Cherry Truckin... Progress on my poor van is gettting the short end of the stick. Timmi and I played around with some grill ideas... Time to do a mock up. most likely after the Cherry Truckin.... :-( damnit, it will be snowing soon here in ohio. >:-|
I'm still totally serious about doing a Bag'n'Drag on this thing. I want to lay frame. F it. Go big or Go home! IMO, there no point in spending all that time and money if I cant put it on the ground when I want to. The back end is very simple, like any other truck.
The front is the tricky part.... I'm Pretty convinced the mustag 2 is indeed the way to go for a number of reasons.
I'm looking at these and trying to justify the additinal cost for the tubular control arms.... or not..
That most significant diffrence seems to be a lack of strut rod and mount point. But I'm not sure if that would really matter for my application.... if I gain "nothing" why spend the extra $700??? One advantage may be the the option for 5/8" narrower control arms, bringing the wheel in 5/8 of an inch. But I'm not sure if I would really gain much that in my application or not.
What aboout getting one with coil over, then swapping out for bags of my choice later????
Bags or no bags / tube or stock arms, I've looked into drum to disk coversison kits... last time I spoke with the dude at AAJ Brakes I think was a $600-$700 conversion kit. (been a few years). All that would get me is disk brakes....
I thikn I could justify the cost of a mustag 2 + the cross member + plus the cost to customize the steering linkage and pull it off for some where between 2-3K. I know.... it seems like a lot (I'm still coming to terms with that), but it wouldnt ride like a big golf cart anymore
The only real difference in the arms is looks! I prefer the tube arms, because if your gonna do it you might as well do it big!
You may save some $ if you get it without the rack. You can't use it anyway. Talk to Frank Costa or look at his build thread and he can tell you exactly what parts you will need to make the steering work. It still will need modding but no sense buying stuff you don't need.
Go straight for the bags. If it's what you want, that's the way to go!
You may save some $ if you get it without the rack. You can't use it anyway.
? this thing:
....... I'm confused. Why wouldnt I need it? How on earth would I steer? lol
It comes in a manual option. I was thinking I just have to change the steering linkage and maybe the column. Maybe implement one of those steer clear gizmoz's....
I'm looking for Franks build thread. I dont suppose he would be at Butler.
Yes that! You need one, but that one will not work in an early. The steering shaft (the arm the column attaches to) needs to face forward. If you flip that over and connect it the steering will be opposite. Turn right, go left, turn left, go right! Would be a great theft deterrent, but a bitch to drive!
I...might... just maybe...make it to Keystone - but its a long shot at the moment. Its the weekend after our event. I think its in Summit Station? Last time I drove to summit station (for a NATZ) seemed to take FOREVER (its really only about 7 hours)
If I do go, I wont arrive until around 2-3 am Saturday. I've never been to keystone. I'd like to go, just because I've never been. Of course I'm kind of van-less at the moment making this even tricky-ier!
Thought long and hard, As much as I'd like to go. I need to spend that weekend in the garage working on my grill. There is always next year and hopefully I'll be driving my own van there.
I totally understand! When you are ready, let me know and I'll hook you up with Frank and he can give you a parts list of what he used. Should work pretty much the same for you.
Here is pictures of the arrow star rack Frank used in #9 along with an Izuzu trooper steering box
You need to remember that a car style mustang II rack steers from behind the front axle.Inside of the frame rails. Your Vans box is in front of the axle.outside of the frame rails.This makes a HUGE difference in the geometry.
Frank answered a question than allot of Early owners have been asking. There was an Early Dodge sent to Fat Man Fabrications a company who specializes in Mustang II conversions. The conversion kicked there a$$ the van was send back with a lame excuse like the van was not meant to travel that fast.....What BS.....
There a a couple front steer set ups out there this.box and rack could be adapted to....
After several months I finally made it back to the garage. I feel like a new man. It’s weird, what great therapy.
Pro tip of the day......Don’t over tork your bolts.
Good lord. This was a hardened tapered head with a 5 mm hex hole. It holds the door hinge arm to the plate inside the door. I stripped the head of this one while trying to remove them to take the door back off so I can finish the door jam.
After numerous failed attempts to remove it, I had to get eXtreme. I took a 3 inch long big threaded bolt with a ½” head on it. I ground the end down so it would fit into the rounded out hex hole, then welded the bolt to the bolt. I put the breaker bar on it and wouldn’t you know it – the long bolt shaft twisted in half….crap. I welded that back together and reinforced the bolt shaft with a steel rod. LOL. Came right out after that, progress can continue.
After all that I have some ideas to modify a few bolts just for this application. That way if I have to remove the door in the future it will be MUCH easier.
Now thet the door is off, I can finish the door jam and glass it. With a little luck I'll be posting some update pics soon....
some times taking a short break from a big project like yours is very helpful....... That looks like a hospital issued arm band on your wrist though. a Torx head bolt will not round out as fast as an allen head bolt will. Make sure you use the same grade,5,8,that was in there.
some times taking a short break from a big project like yours is very helpful....... That looks like a hospital issued arm band on your wrist though. a Torx head bolt will not round out as fast as an allen head bolt will. Make sure you use the same grade,5,8,that was in there.
Too bad the used off shore metric sizes......
......Wookee
Yeah it's a hospital band. I'm stuck with it on until the Baby is out of the NIC Unit. She could be there for a while. Thats partly why I was cleaning the garage and did something that day. I needed a break. I felt 100% better after removing the bolt. "Garage Therapy" Session.
Didnt get anything done last night because by the time I got home last night from the hospital I passed out on the couch between loads of laundry
Good point about the bolt grade. Wouldnt want that sucker to snap off on the freeway.... Whoooooooaa!
...shapin up! I got a few coats of Long'n'Strong on the inner door jam. The pockets are kind of tricky. Think I'll hit it with one more coat and should be able to put some Duraglass on it tonight.
Looks good! Be sure to add rubber bumpers in the door frame, side to side and the bottom to keep the door from moving around and cracking all of that while driving.
Looks good! Be sure to add rubber bumpers in the door frame, side to side and the bottom to keep the door from moving around and cracking all of that while driving.
Thats a good idea, but having trouble visualizing that. Wonder if stiffer weather stripping would work? Ideally the door shoudnt actully touch the door jam other than the hindge and the latch, right?
The weatherstripping may hold it fine, but in my experience a van body does a lot of flexing and things (like doors) can really move around on a good jolt from a pothole.
Crap, almost a month later and I dont have any major van updates pics ;-(
I've been burning my spare time prepping for the winter season. I'm 2/3 of the way done with further insulating the garage. I'm going to reduce the cubic feet I need to heat by sealing off and insulating the space between the first and second floor. Hopefully, it will heat up more quickly, and require less energy to keep it toasty while I'm in there. ;-) forward thinking....
Hopefully Someday soon I'll actully work on the van instead of the garage.
Getting back in the saddle again! (I forgot how fun it was.)
Welded up the inner door side of the jam. More glass and sanding on the van side of the jam. Lots of test test fitting. Got several coats of long strand filler on the door. Planning to duraglass it this evening.
I'll be so happy when I'm done with this door and can move on to the front.
I'm trying to figure out what to do about mirrors.
I REALLY like the small round mirrors that hang from the top door.
Cool and clean, but not very useful. What about mini camera's?
This is a cool product. Not sure about the audio and a DVR, that seems like a bad idea....but a cool product. I'm thinking something similar might take care of my problem. A "mirror" with a video screen in it.
I've considered cameras for many projects and towing is the issue with most of them. You can set cameras to work with the vehicle, but trailers are all different and you may need to move them. To use cameras, they would have to go on a moveable arm and that almost defeats the purpose for me.
I'm trying to figure out what to do about mirrors.
I REALLY like the small round mirrors that hang from the top door.
Cool and clean, but not very useful. What about mini camera's?
This is a cool product. Not sure about the audio and a DVR, that seems like a bad idea....but a cool product. I'm thinking something similar might take care of my problem. A "mirror" with a video screen in it.
Anyone using rear view camera's for towing? Good, Bad, and Ugly?
My buddy owns a body shop in Alabama http://www.custompaint.us/home.html and he is building a custom chopper that has rear view mirrors mounted on the handle bars and they are small then hidden in license plate bolts are 2-360 degree cameras that you can adjust to where you can almost see yourself on the camera.
A little more progress on the door. Swapping out welding tanks at lunch so I can finish the inside. in the mean time.... there is plenty of work to be done on the outside. I'll start with the top. Then the bottom. Then the middle.
I'm getting much better at hanging doors and aligning them. Takes some fiddling around, learned a few new tricks though. I never realized hinges and doors are a science in its self. What complex shapes these old dodge vans have. Found out I can reduce if not eleminate the vertical play in the hinge bushing by applying just a wee bit of pressure pressing the upper and lower hinges twards eachother before torking the bolts that hold the hing to the door pocket to the backing plate. Also, If I stick two cut off chunks of exhaust pipe in the pillar hinge pockets, they dont move, making it MUCH easier to get the door on and off. ....details...
OK, door back on:
Look Ma! No hinges?!?!
Prepping....
Glassing... (with long strand)
Yeah....Kinda Narley on the inside - but thats ok. I'll get to that later.
Lots of sanding. This is after the second coat of long strand. I'll throw one more on smooth it out and then duraglass it. I'm making a lot of dust.
I'm planning to lock myself in the garage for the next few days. Other than the Club Thx-Giving dinner party on Saturday I really dont plan on going anywhere. Wax On - Wax Off.
Oh! I know what I wanted to ask. Whats the best way to remove the the smokers window (rubber and glass)?
If I wanted to replace the roll up and down glass, whats the best way to remove and install that?
Looking good buddy. When are you going to fill the hole? Are you still going to have access to the hinge bolts when it's filled?
I'm told that they make kits to remove the wing windows. Probably not specifically for vans, but then again, what do they make for vans?
If I remember correctly, to remove the glass from the door you remove the wing window by removing the nut under the door and the screw on the top of the door frame. Roll the door glass all the way down and wiggle the wing window out. Once that is out, you roll the door glass up enough to grab it then while holding it roll the window down until the regulator rollers come out of the track on the bottom of the glass the pull the door glass up and out the door frame. You need to remove the rubber window channel and possible the bottom felts first.
Looking good! Alota work you are getting done there! I see you may have some "motivation" from the cans in the corner of the last pic? Lookin good keep the pics coming! Good luck!
When are you going to fill the hole? Are you still going to have access to the hinge bolts when it's filled?
Hopefully very soon. Yes, the bolts go in from the cab thread twards the door. But the adjustable backing plates is why I have not yet welded that piece back in. I can still access the plates from the cab side of the door when everythgin is said and done via the removable panel.
I wanted to hold off on welding up that hole as long as possible until I got the alignment stuff figured out and dialed in. I'm nearly there. I cheated, after I got the door lined up and where I wanted it I drew markings around the the adjustable plates. That gets me in the ball park every time I take the door off / put the door back on. I've done a lot of that lately. It was a time saving tactic.
On the flip side....I dont want to delay too long in welding up that hole either. Body filler and hot metal dont mix well at all. Maybe I'll revisit that tonight before I get too far ahead of myself. Before I weld that up, I should figure out the wing window and the up/down glass.
I have an full 80# tank of gas now. Wanted to swap out my 120#er but they sold out. Whatever, 80#'s will get me through the weekend. I have more sanding then welding to do anyway.
I dug up some older pics to see what the alignment like on this door before chopping the stock hinges... (from attempt #1, we are on attempt #3 now...hehe.. lost track of how many man hours.)
Thats my beer can collection in the corner. Thinking about putting it on ebay to pay for the front end. errrr.... I had to make sure the new fridge worked? j/k. I'm saving up cans to recycle and donate to the Club...."Cans for the Club". We had a whole trailer HEAPING full ready to go and some a$$hole decided to help him self. (What a POS!)
What you can't see is the stack of bagged up crushed cans. Its becoming quite a pain in the ass and they are getting in my way. Someone told me today that cans are up to .55 a pound. Might be time to cash in this weekend.
But yeah, a little motivation is great! a lot and things just get sloppy. Its fun to alternate. Cup of coffee, beer, coffee, beer, etc. What I need is a bottle Kahlua. Pour that in my coffee and just cut to the chase
Speaking of front ends.... I think I obtained the correct gear box. A junk yard abtou 20 miles from home had one. Ir locates a tried to get a new one but all the parts guys thought I was nuts and had no clue what I was talkign about. I went back to the parts place with the gear box in hand and proudly said... "I need one of these, they do exist!". Still no dice on a new one. So if anyone ever locates a part number or source for a new one let me know. (I want to keep a spare in stock.)
I think thats it anyway... looks like the picture it was listed as a rodeo, but tagged as something else. Regardless, I think thats what I want.
I still need to score an aerostar rack. I think I can get those brand new.
Does the part have any numbers cast into it? Maybe do an on line search. Doubtful you will find a new one, but maybe you can fund a rebuild kit or a much cleaner one.
Ok... got tied up the past few days. Here's the pics I was talking about. Hopefully more progress soon.
out side needs more work
Inside is gettign better, think I'll justy leave it glassed for now and go back to the outside. If I drop the front I'll be chopping a chunk out of the inside of the door.
I still want coat the whole inside of the door with por 15. Gonna need some elbow long gloves for that task.
Looks good buddy. All that plastic in the door jamb is still scaring me though. It's hard to tell in pictures, but do you feel most of it will be coming off when sanding? Just curious.
Yeah Most of it will be sanded down. I put it on pretty thick, and end up sanding most of it off. I have a swell dust collection in the making.
That Long strand fiber filler is a lot harder than it looks. Not like bondo or icing. Broke a sweat and had to take a break while I was trying to clean the built up material off of my metal mixing trays. (still havent gotten my hands ona chunk of temprered glass) HOLY CRAP that is strong stuff. Guess they call it "Long n Strong for a reason". I was beating the bajesus out of it with a big hammer and a chissle... Seems to handles blunt force impacts well, but doesnt care too much for excessive flexing.
However, that that would really suck if it popped. I still like your idea of little rubber bumpers in the jam. THey dont have to be really thick, just something to add a little buffer.
So far, there are very few places where the door actully touches the door jam. The top is one of them, where the door meets the dash. But then again I havent drivent it down a bumpy road yet either....
Any bright ideas about the pinch seam around the bottom of the door where the skin is welded on? Thats got some rust and I havent touched it yet. I do want to catch it before it get out of hand. Blast and Glass? Use some "All-Metal"? Por 15?
That is one place the door panel (when I get aroudn to makign door panels) wont conceal. So I'd like to make it nice and smooth too...
That's cool. I figured you were just using it to smooth and form. The bumpers will make a world of difference.
If you are talking about the edge of the door where the bod skin wraps around the inner door lip, that's a tough one to deal with. The door skin is actually glued and not welded around the inner framework. Chances are if there is rust in there, it's most likely coming from the inside of the door out. That's the bad news. The good news is, it can be fixed and the easiest way is to open up the edge (carefully) AND CLEAN WHAT METAL YOU CAN SALVAGE AND REPLACE WHAT YOU CAN'T. Then just roll the door skin back over.
"The door skin is actually glued and not welded around the inner framework. Chances are if there is rust in there, it's most likely coming from the inside of the door out."
AHHHHH! .....ok.... Guess I'll play with that really soon.
It's not rusting Really bad (yet), but what rust is "good"? I suppose now is the time.
It would be nice to have several distributed inlet boxes around the garage to constantly cycle and filter the air. Connected as needed Via a spider leg system of tubes. And a port to hook in a hose with a collector inlet that I codul move around the garage depending on where I'm working at that time.
Wonder if that unit will be large enough or if I'll need more horse power?
.....Maybe get a 5 hp shopvac gizmo and cut it up?
I've seen some setups with a drum and a shop vac. I'd bet you could easily make something cheaper with your skills. I'd even do an on line search as there may be some plans or videos of some home made systems.
Is anyone Running a Dust Collection unit? Can anyone comment on Pros cons? The Good, The Bad, The Ugly?
I have one attached to my large sandblasting cabinet and belt sander. It's one of the type with the vacuum cleaner motor on top and a heavy canvas bag suspended between the top half and the bottom half.
Ever since I've had it I've been gathering the materials to move it outdoors!
It definitely captures everything that it's supposed to, making it much more pleasant to operate the machine tools, and it prevents the large dust particles from straying, but way too much ultra-fine dust gets out and hovers in the air. It looks like thin smoke when you see it.
That sort of ultra-fine dust is especially hazardous to inhale since it penetrates so deeply into your lungs. So, I still have to wear a filter mask! Grrrrrr...
It settles on *everything* too, so I have to cover my lathe, saw sharpener and other precision items, like my jacks and press which have hydraulic rams, with sheets of plastic to protect them.
Once I get my van inside the garage and paint it black, this dust would become a vast reservoir of misery, as it would cause sleeks all over the finish when I'd attempt to wash it off... not an acceptable situation!
To me the ultimate solution is to pour a small concrete pad against the side of my garage, then build a small roofed enclosure on the pad which would have an access door, a switched ground-fault electrical outlet, and a port through the garage wall for the hose. The dust capture unit could live outside permanently then. All the ultra-fine dust will be sucked out of the structure and stay out, as it should be, and I may finally be able to work without a respirator mask! The noise of the vacuum would be outside too, making it more pleasant in the garage.
I purchased the reinforced vacuum hose actually intended for use on dust recovery systems, as well as many of the necessary fittings. The port through the wall is something I have been unsuccessful at locating commercially, so I'll have to build it. I'll do that once I finish running the new wiring, which like so many things I do requires a massive escalation of effort; I have to add a new circuit breaker box, since my existing one in the garage is 100% full! -Seems there's always something...
.....Maybe get a 5 hp shopvac gizmo and cut it up?
I've seen some setups with a drum and a shop vac. I'd bet you could easily make something cheaper with your skills. I'd even do an on line search as there may be some plans or videos of some home made systems.
That's what I made for my blast cabinet, along with a cloth filter over the paper in my shop vac. I usually run aluminum oxide in the cabinet and that will eat up a shop vac, the water trap is cheap and effective. Search Google and you will find plenty of plans/ideas.
Ram4ever, I think your right a seperate building for the pump would be the ideal solution.
This seemed like a good idea, but not much return unless I make a sizable investment.
Originally Posted by M_S
Originally Posted by Superbeast
Originally Posted by HomeBrew
.....Maybe get a 5 hp shopvac gizmo and cut it up?
I've seen some setups with a drum and a shop vac. I'd bet you could easily make something cheaper with your skills. I'd even do an on line search as there may be some plans or videos of some home made systems.
That's what I made for my blast cabinet, along with a cloth filter over the paper in my shop vac. I usually run aluminum oxide in the cabinet and that will eat up a shop vac, the water trap is cheap and effective. Search Google and you will find plenty of plans/ideas.
Water trap? I assume that would work in more or less the same way as a double bubble? That’s Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!
I might build a inline one of those for kicks and see how much it crap traps.
Started cleanign up the door skin seams. Wire wheel was not cutting it, so I broke down and picked up a small portable blaster.
And my dumb ass decided to blast inside the garage and dade a huge mess. tonight I'll play with the shop vac..... but the seam is squeeky clean now. pics on the way.
Little Goro Slayin between coats. Gettgin pretty close on the door. There is one spot right inthe middle of the center bubble body line where the door meets the jam that I'm not happy with yet. If I build it up nice and straight the inside edge of the door rubs there as it opens. If I dot buils it up nice and straight the gap between is a little wider there than the rest of the line. (that bugs me, I'll have to figure out what to do about that.)
Needing a little holiday cheer, I started in on the front. It turned out to be a pretty good puzzle. Started by taping the new grill to the old one and sat and stared at it for a while.
I marke the original grill and started cuttting.
Notched the lower pinch seam / weld and welded that up. That allows the new grill bracket to slide in. I'm still building the rest of the mounting hardware for that (more pics later).
Taped up the crome so I wouldnt scratch anythgin while I was man handeling it.
The stock grill comes off, the new grill goes in, and then the stock grill goes OVER the new grill.
Havent totally figured out what to do for top mounting brackets, but I have a few ideas. More to come.
I did not see the mounting pionts on the new grill. 1x1/8 flat stock can span the gap between the top of the grill and the pan under the grill.This can be bent/formed very easy.t can then be ether tack welded or even sheet metal screwed in place.
Love them A100's Like all your custom mods. What was the grill bar from? Have you thought about a one piece front door glass mod? Ive been looking into doing that mod on my 8door A Good luck on your project. Doc Yukon 69 8 door 340ci a518 barn find? (my barn) Does that count?
The one piece front door glass occured to me but I never investigated my options. I'd love to hear what you find out. I'm on the fence. I smoke, so the smoker window is really handy in the rain. But I do like the clean with one chunk of glass.
The Bar is a remake replacement for the 53-57 corvette grille.
I'll save you the time of looking for dimensions:
1953-57 bars have 13 teeth and are 37-3/4" long. 1958-60 bars have 9 teeth and are 27-1/2" long.
I didnt buy the oval part to go around it because they wanted a $1,000 just for the silly oval. At that price + the bar cost, I could have an original stock desoto grill cleanded up and chromed.
I had planned to do the one piece glass in my early when I was chopping it. I have a buddy that owns a glass shop and he told me there were kits available to do it. I haven't researched it more, but he made it sound like the kits made it very easy to do. Early vans having flat glass it should be easy to get glass made at least.
Neat! I'll need to hook up with the local glass man before he moves to FL (I’ve heard rumors he's threatening to push in the clutch and retire).
I'll have to look into kits or investigate a custom track build. I have a feeling either way it's gonna be a custom job ;-)
Wookee I like your idea with making new brackets all together.
Originally I made a mock up set of "L" brackets that I could weld to the van with a hole to bolt the stock vette grill brackets to that.... (Picked up SS bolts and everything). After bending some more metal I have concluded I don't really care for the stock brackets much. They did serve a purpose though; I ground them down to manipulate the grill placement for the mock up. I definitely want to make my own. Custom fit to the application, clean - no extra bolts, and it solved my issue with the top part too!
Last week (Friday night) I determined I can't drill precision holes with an air drill. I tried and I tried... made a bunch of nice brackets...and then I'd f them up trying to drill a hole Defeated, I stopped while I was ahead and went inside. Saturday I picked up a variable speed floor stand drill press. I have wanted one for a long time and couldnt ever justify spending the money. After reflectign on all the times I could have used one....this was the last draw. Got the thing unloaded and assembled. Putting the head on the shaft was a two man job. I'm gonna test it out tonight and Hopefully make some more brackets.
Got nothing done last night and I dont expect to get anything done tonight :-(
I did find this one piece door glass conversion kit install PDF. The kit costs a small fortune, I might try and make my own. This PDF is the install destructions for a chevy truck conversion. But the concept should remain about the same.
Yup, to make precise holes, you gotta have a good drill press. I did exactly as you did, a few years ago
That looks like a nice kit, but it's made for that specific truck. Like you said the principle should be the same and I'm sure you can make most of what you would need to do it.
You know, looking at that third from the last picture, I don't think it's going to work. With the angle of the rear door frame the glass needs to go down on an angle and it looks like it will hit the front of the door before it goes all the way down.
You know, looking at that third from the last picture, I don't think it's going to work. With the angle of the rear door frame the glass needs to go down on an angle and it looks like it will hit the front of the door before it goes all the way down.
HAHAHA!!!! I was looking at mine last night and planned on say that same thing today. Now I'm even more curious if he can pull it off.
The front of the van is slightly curved and the grill is slightly cuved too. This results in the end points sitting deeper into the floor pan than the rest of the grill.
My initial reaction was to cut out the floor. Glad I didn't, cooked up a much cleaner solution.
Resessed pockets, one at wither end to hold the bracket at either end. This will keep the grill nicely stuffed into the van with only a very subtle change to the front and minimal consumption of the space inside the cab.
Did the first end last night, came out GREAT!
With the drill press I'll be able to make nice straight holes in the brackets. I want the brackets to be as invisible as possible when I'm done. After I'm happy with the brackets I'll weld up the top of the resessed box from the inside of the cab.
There was a hole in the middle of the floor where the air plume drain hose came down. I'm welding that up to make room for the middle bracket. I'll just re-route that drain hose a few inches to the left or right of that.
You know, looking at that third from the last picture, I don't think it's going to work. With the angle of the rear door frame the glass needs to go down on an angle and it looks like it will hit the front of the door before it goes all the way down.
HAHAHA!!!! I was looking at mine last night and planned on say that same thing today. Now I'm even more curious if he can pull it off.
I posted on his blog to see what he says. Not sure if I'll get an email when he replies, so I'll have to try and remember to check back.
On my early I thought about it, but my front window glass will only be about 8" tall, if that!
Ran out of gas.....grrrr... I couldnt finish cleaning up the welds, but the grill goes in and out nicely.
Started Mocking up the window hole erasing.... I took a 1/8" thick flat bar and clamped it to the bottom of the gutter rail and butted the sheet up against that. I want to keep a slight gap for the seam sealer, hope thats not too much but it looks about right.
I'm worried about flex or wobble in the panel. May or may not be an issue when its installed. But it it is I have an idea for that. Bend a Z bracket out of flat steel and put it where the glass was. Weld it on the ends to the window frame, and tack it down the middle.
Then panel seems to fit pretty darn flat. I still need to figure out a handful of details and buy more supplies, but in the mean time I'll make shapes out of metal.
This guy is near me. I actually ran into him at the Turkey Rod run this year. Didn't think at the time, but I shoulda made a date to meet up with him and check this van out. Wonder if I got any info for him somewhere?
I glued the panels on with Lord Fusor Adhesive. This stuff is WILD! But I also tacked welded the sides and bottom of the panel (but not the top). I wanted to make sure things wouldnt shift around on me while everything expands/contracts.
Clean everything up real nice....
And fill it it, Long Hair first, then duraglass...
Then, I used 3M bare metal seam sealer on the top between the panel and the gutter rail. That's some crazy stuff.
I think that to get a real feel for what it will look like, you'll need to put a life-size picture of a guy with an ear-to-ear grin inside the windshield!!
;0)
A couple of quick questions - did you use the weld-through Lord Fusor adhesive or the standard stuff? The 3M #08116 I used was nearly black, but it looks like the Lord Fusor is nearly Zinc Chromate green? Is that the color once it's fully cured?
Sounds like you're pretty happy with the 3M seam sealer? Did it lay out and stay in place well? Perhaps most importantly, how thick a layer did it cure to?
I need to do that same seam on my van when I get ready to paint, (c'mon, springtime!) and since I've already got a 3M applicator gun I've seriously been considering using their sealer.
A couple of quick questions - did you use the weld-through Lord Fusor adhesive or the standard stuff? The 3M #08116 I used was nearly black, but it looks like the Lord Fusor is nearly Zinc Chromate green? Is that the color once it's fully cured?
I'm glad I didn't get the Fast cure, it would have started setting up before I got everything positioned and clamped.
Did a Q&A with the support team prior to purchase:
Q. What happens when I have more than 1" of overlap? A. If you expose bare metal beyond what will be covered by the adhesive then the bare metal will be a corrosion concern. We recommend grinding no more than 1” to allow the adhesive to cover the bare metal an provide corrosion protection.
Q. Can I over clamp the panels, how tight is too tight? A. Over clamping is hard to do, but possible. If you hear the glass beads crushing you have over clamped. Firm clamping is fine.
Q. What’s the thickness of the glass beads? A. 0.010” diameter.
Q. What happens to the adhesive material if I get to close with the welder? (I want to tack weld a few spots to ensure nothing shifts as the different materials expand and contract. If I’m going to do any welding after applying the adhesive and clamping the panel, should do it before or after the adhesive cures?
A.Resistance spot welding and MIG welding will char the adhesive in the localized area. This is normal and is not a problem, due to the amount of adhesive and the size of the weld. You can weld before or after cure, but most people do it before cure.
(I welded after, I wanted to clean everything up first.)
Originally Posted by Ram4ever
Sounds like you're pretty happy with the 3M seam sealer? Did it lay out and stay in place well? Perhaps most importantly, how thick a layer did it cure to?
I need to do that same seam on my van when I get ready to paint, (c'mon, springtime!) and since I've already got a 3M applicator gun I've seriously been considering using their sealer.
It's pretty sticky stuff, the bead stayed right in place.
The side door jam cam out great! I'll have to post some pics of that. The smaller panel seam came out great too. I'm not happy with the seam on the back panel. It's not the products fault it was me. My dumb ass, having never used the product before starts with a long seam instead of a short one... I didnt wipe it down quickly enough. when I went back to smooth it out I pressed harder than I should have and the bead looks wavy when you look down the side. I'll probubly redo that 4 foot section. I still need to do the back door jam and around the gutter rail. For now its sealed and preserved until I can prep the rest of the back.
I cheated with the dispenser. I have a gun for the lord fusor products, but not a 3M gun. I cheated and put the 3m tube in the lord fusor gun. It worked but I think I want a 3m gun now. I have more seams to seal and I still need to do the inside of the gutter rails with self leveling sealer.
Dude, it looks GREAT! Glad it worked out for you this way.
Ram, the Lord Fusor Weld thru is silver in color. It has metal in it to make it weldable, but it does burn on contact, so it still needs to be finished over if in an area that can be seen.
Just a quick update. I spent the weekend working my way around the back of the van, didn’t get too far due to scope creep. After welding up the rear hinge holes, I started looking at the corner panel rot (Nasty!). All things considered it could have been worse, but I think the amount of work would have been the same either way. The floor pan was rusted and all mangled up due to a blown tire burn out at SLAM a few years ago. I cut that out with the plasma cutter to get a better look at the back of the panel. I started a rubber fire from all the caked up left over tire (I love that smell). I left about a half of an inch of the original floor pane around the edge where it mated with the walls. Drilled out the spot welds around the outside and then cut the panel free just inside of the pinch welds. That was the easy part. Then I blasted all that crap, lots of rust and crap in there. I shredded what was left of the floor pan to panel curved chunk with the blaster. I rebuilt that with flat bar. I wanted the floor pan to attach to something more than the corner panel. It came out pretty strong, I could grab the small bar in the middle and rock the whole van. Cut out and welded up the other holes to complete the sub structure. Slapped some port 15 in there, I don’t think I’ll be able to reach in there after the outer corner panel is on. Hopefully tonight I can Weld in the outer panel and apply come filler over the welds. …see how far I get.
Billy, it was a real pleasure to meet the "JR Master Fabracator" in person at the CofC's meeting..... you have taken on more cool stuff and had good results,than allot of the pro would have. Keep up the great work!!!!! hell you even got me wanting to try to use some glue.....LOL I have a project in the works where i think the glue will work great. I just need the time to pull it off......
Thanks guys! I'm having a lot of fun with it and learning all kinds of things in the process.
Wookee, it was great to finally meet you in person and put a face with the name.
I have another off the wall question. If someone wanted to tunnel their exhaust pipes out the roll pan or french the side pipes into the side.... or blow them out the sides and up like zoomied "FU" Pipes.....
How much room do you suppose would be required around the metal pipes to NOT burn the paint off of the van?
I have not figured out what I want to do with the exhaust yet. But it occured to me last night, if bag it and slam it... the pipes definitly can't stay where they are now...
Oh, my! You have persuaded Joe to at least think about glues?
I've seen many exhausts like that and There are some factors, the main being location of the exit. The reason being is the closer to the engine, the hotter the pipe will be. I've seen rear exiting exhaust no more than 1/4" clearance, and side with as little as 1/2". In all honesty though, I would think if you have all metal around the opening and a quality, product used properly, the paint shouldn't be affected by the heat of the exhaust as long as there is some clearance. I know guys that have used the same paint on their engines as on their vans with no issues.
Heck, on Luke's van, he had his exhaust tied up and it was hitting the side of the van and there was no sign of damage to the paint.
I REALLY like Lake pipes, but... that would be tricky because of the motor location. Right now I'm running out the stock manifold, into a muffler, and turning out and I'm already about to the front of the rear wheel.
Could ditch the muffler (its over rated, lol) OR maybe double back twards the front with the exhaust pipe? (seems kinds self defeating)
I looked around at summit racing for various shapes of exhaust tips, they have plenty of stuff but nothing that really grabs me. Bike Exhaust tips see so much cooler looking.... It would suck to drunk stagger into these while trying to get in the van Baron Custom Accessories Family Jewels, Scallops
This whole thing started when I was trying to find an example of "Shark Fin" tips on a hotrod/led sled/low rider/rat rod ect. I swear I have seen it before but can't seem to find any pictures. These are not the tips I was thinking of, but you get the general idea.... Roadhouse Classic 4" Shark Fin Exhaust Tip
Man this is a great thread I just went through 40 something pages and couldn't stop till I got caught up on your project, great work and Very Cool man!!
I'm under the impression it's a "car guy" joke between car guys who like vans.....but I could be wrong.
Awesome BigAir, glad you like the thread and thanks for readin it. I’m having fun and learning a TON in the process. I’m still curious to see how all this work stacks up against the test of time.
I have everything I need to panel off the driverside. Well, I have the materials and everything but time...
I had to get creative with the clamp method. ;-)
Couldnt find an off the shelf tool to do what I needed, so I made one! This is the prototype "Lateral Telescoping Clamp". It will allow me to push two objects in opposit directions instead of pulling them twards each other.
It's a 24" chunk of 1" square stock, with a 3/4" nut welde don each end with a 3/4 x 5" bold threaded into that. Gives me 10" of latteral adjustment. If I neede more, just insert a longer 3/4" bolt. Each "clamp" had to be adjustable because my garage wall is not straight and the van is not parked parallel to that...
I'm going to put 2x4's on the garage wall, and use flat metal bars on the van side to distribute the pressure evenly and not dimple or bend the panel.
This panel is 6'9" wide and 21.5" tall. Plane to make up a dozen of these custom "clamps". Hope to have the first three windows on the driver side erased by the end of the weekend.
I still need to cut and fit panel #2 for the last window, but I can man handle that one by myself. BIG thanks to "Little Dave" for coming over on a saturday night and helping me until 2 AM. I fell asleep between midnight and 1:30, thank goodness Dave woke me up. If I waited any longer to remove the clamps and flat bar, they may have been stuck for good.
Started with a 8x3' sheet and cut it down to 6'9"x 21.5".
Prepped side of van.
Prepped mating surface of panel.
Apply adhesive, smooth it out into an even layer. Apply panel and clamp.
Wait two hours and remove clamps.
Now, I can begin to prep the edges for tack welding, filler, and seam sealing, etc.
Note on latteral telescopic clamping. The concept worked pretty well. A problem I ran into was clamping evenly.... When I would increase the pressure exerted by the clamps at one "level" the van body would roll on the suspension and reduce the force of the other clamps above or below. (DOH!)
If I was to do this again, I would put jack stands all around the edge of the van to prevent the body from moving.
That's got to be the quickest multi-window delete ever - awesome job!
The walls should be really rigid too, since you left all the window frames in place. Are you going to do anything in particular with the interior as a result?
How you are transforming this van is , lets just say phenomenal. American ingenuity at its best. This van is going to look so cool!!!!!! I know you have heard this a hundred times, so here is one hundred and one; Can't wait to see this van done!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice job on the panel install. Glad it's working the way we discussed. I prolly would have cheated and used sheet metal screws in the center of each window frame and just welded them up when done.
What is that foam looking mushroom thing in the picture of your new tool?
What is that foam looking mushroom thing in the picture of your new tool?
That's my "Energy Efficient" portable Keg Koozie, I built it about 10 years ago. Its a metal garbage can with multiple layers of insulating foam. There's a hole in the top under the glove big enougth to run the Gas hose in and Beer hose out.
Just perfect for those times you want to take a keg along, but don't have power for a kegerator or and endless supply of ice ;-)
Its been around the block and back, more than once. Time Tested & Party Approved!
looks awesome! great idea for covering the clear spots. So much quicker and simpler than welding it. Good Job!
Thanks! I'm still going tack welding it around the bottom and sides to keep things from moving. I'm also Tacking a brace inside of where the glass was originally to eliminate any flex in the panel. I'll get some pics up of that.
It has not made it out of the garage yet.... the real test will be time. I hope it holds up.
Yeah I know. I'm jones'in for garage time. Only thing I have done is sanding some filler when I could scrape up the time, so there wassnt much to take pictures of. It's been the month from hell. Wind blew and the shit flew on all fronts... and the ride isnt over yet....
I keep eye balling the big pannel while I sand. There is one bump about mid van at the top of the pannel right below the gutter rail that I'm not happy with. I can feel it and when I look from the back twards the front I can see a small hump in that spot. Slap a straight edge on there and yeah there is a bump. I'm just not sure if it was the panel its self or the sub structure. Either way, I Think I want to heat it up, rip it off, and do it again. Maybe do the side in three pannels instead of two, as its easier to man handle. But being on the fence about it I didnt weld it in place yet. It's subtle, but possibly noticable. I'll always notice it and if I don't fix it now, it will always drive me nuts.
I did however, pick up another 68 A108 sportsman custom window van yesterday. No big plans for it. Just a tune up, swap out some stock parts and drive it.
At least I have my own van to drive to shows in now. Or go pick up more sheet metal in etc... That was a royal pain in the ass having to keep borrowing a van.
I'm pulling the motor and slappin it into the new rat van. Might as well use the b@$tard.... It's depressing to see perfectly good motor literally just sitting there collecting dust. I would have had to pull it anyway further down the line for a handful of reasons, so I'm just killing two birds with one stone. Good weekend project (just need to order another super long Lokar throttle cable. Thats the only thing I'm missing.)
When the Van is ready to go down the road and has paint on it, I'll either put the motor back, or with some luck stuff a stroker in it (assuming I can save enough pennies up between now and then.)
318 bored 30 over, compcam, Edelbrock Performer intake and carb, stock manifolds, MSD 6AL box and e-curve dizzy. Would have liked to put some roller rockers in it but I ran out of cash during the build. Wish I would have put higher flow heads on it too (rebuilt the stock ones). Oh well, maybe next time. I always wanted to build a stroker....
Being a low-buck project, JJ doesn't the fancy equipment most vans on this site get, but after two hours of diggin' through boxes of "spare parts", I did come up with something a little better to replace the well worn brake pedal pad and the no-buck, "temporary" gas pedal (plywood and home-door hinge) JJ's had for the last eight years.
For the gas pedal, I started with an old Mr. Gasket "Hippie Foot" cover, which clamps on top of the stock pedal with a couple of straps screwed to the cover.
I started with a new, rectangular piece of wood to attach the cover and hinge to, but thought it looked crummy, so I cut another piece of wood the same shape as the "Hippie Foot". Then I cut a Piece of metal in the same shape, except the bottom which had to extend down to the pivot hinge (another nickle-plated home door hinge).
Unfortunately, the end of the throttle pivot rod (shown below) jammed in between the "toes",
so I had to make another piece (aluminum, this time) with a sandal shape under the "toes".
For the brake pedal pad (a Cal-Custom clutch pad from a Chevy truck clutch/brake pad cover set), I cut & bent two pieces of aluminum the same size and contour as the rubber insert. Then, after removing JJ's old pad, bent the metal so it matched the curve of the aluminum pieces. then I clamped them in place on the pedal and drilled a hole on each side of the pedal arm.
Then after grinding two little pockets in the rubber insert (to clear top of bolts) I inserted two carriage bolts in one of the aluminum plates and layed it down against the bottom of the rubber insert, bent the metal pad straps over, added the second plate (to sandwich the straps and hold them tight), then bolted it to the stock pad.
The dimmer pad just slips on and uses an Allen-head set screw. Total cost was 78 cents for carriage bolts with right thread for gas pedal pad. (Hippie pads were free from friend years ago, the clutch/brake pad set was removed from a '67 Chevy C10 I totaled 15+ yrs. ago)
P.S.- I will strip/repaint brake pedal arm and that nasty old carpet will be replaced with new carpet (tan & black) after I'm done with a few more mods (new steering column, plug wires, exhaust manifold heat shields, new insulation,vinyl door edging, and pleated cover for dog house, cold air intake, new front doors, dash pad, gauge cluster and others I'm sure I'm forgetting).
You are using the wrong welding equipment for the job, if you're going to weld thin body panels you should tig weld them. I understand tig welding equipment is expensive and tig welding is time consuming but the results are worth every hour and every penny.
Of course, even the little harbor freight flux welders one can do well. And obviously one can weld thin body panels using mig, but it's practical to use tig. The lack of a tig welder is one reason why I have been hesitant of repairing the body panels and floor pan on my van.
Someday I'll learn to tig, If anyone they wants to sell one at a sick price PM me. Until then I'll keep Mig welding....seems to be getting the job done so far
Cleaned the garage after the motor swap so I have room to work again. I got more sanding done the last few days. Plan to start hitting it harder again. few hours every night that I can manage to squeeze out.
Zap Zap - wrap up the window removal. Then the last 2 rocker panels (on the driver side). then flip hindges on the front door....etc.
Got to chop chop some floor out, I did lots of messuring and decided to do the mustang 2 front end. YEAH IFS! The trans pan sits about 4" below lowest body panel, so I'm going to have to raise up the drive train just a smidge in order to totally lay it out on bags. It's cool though, gives me a chance to install a skid plate and stuff. Now that the engine and drive line is out, its going to be much easier to work on. Ripped out the fuel tank too, thats in the way. Need to find a good location for a fuel cell.
I spent 4 hours prepping and measuring the last window panel and surface for replacement. Then I spent 9 hours test fitting, modifying clamps, reinforcing the wall, jacked up the opposite side of the van and deflated the tires on the install side to tilt the van more parallel to the garage wall, ect. Everything I could to make the install go smoothly. This is the last panel and I can’t F it up... everything lined up nice. Only thing I was lacking was another set of hands to apply and tighten clamps while I held the panel in place. I'm stubborn and decided to attempt it anyway.
While looking up at the long lateral clamps above my head one came loose and cracked me in the face. (after that I welded a cross bar to keep them togeather) There was no blood so I kept working. Had a black eye the following day - but that’s not the worst part.
At one point while trying to hold the panel with one hand (its 44"x21.5") and apply / tighten clamps with the other, the panel slipped and I pushed it back into place. What I didn’t realize until about the time the glue was set up and ready to unclamp is (work time from mixing to cure is 40-50 minutes). When I pushed the panel up, I overlapped it with the existing panel next to it by about 1/16th of an inch. Creating a not totally flat panel :-( DOH!
To make matters worse, I couldn’t locate my blowtorch. How does one loose a blow torch?!?!?! with no heat, I couldn’t even remove the panel before it fully cured (4-5 hours) and homeDeblow had already closed.
Will have to reprep, refit, and retry.
Removing the panel was a bit tricky. First I cut out the middle section of the panel to reduce the amount of metal acting as a heat sink and make prying easier.
I started at one corner and applied heat via a torch running MAP gas, and worked the panel off by prying with a flat bar. That worked pretty well.
Then I heated the glue with a torch running propane and used a scrapper to remove most of the glue, then hit it with a DA to remove any leftover residue….. OK -Back where I started…
I obtained more adhesive last night and my brother came over to help install…..while cutting the new panel my Nibbler broke. The shaft inside it sheared off. …..Really?! Just can’t win. Going to attempt it again on Thursday…..
I really won’t know if this idea was genius or a really bad idea until later. Having said that, if it was welded on I'm pretty confident it’s not coming apart. It’s an experiment for sure.
I didnt say it came off easy I said, "worked pretty well". It took quite a bit of work to get it back off and not a quick process by any means. ;-)
Fear not... I'm not just glue'n it on and forgettgin about it.
Like the first side, once I'm happy with the pannel, I'm still tacking it in about every inch or two all around the sides and bottom. Mainly because I don't want anything to shift as things expand or contract. I'll also put bars inside to add stiffness to the panel and reduce flex.
i was contemplating this on my Ford, using the adhesive to fill in the conversion windows. Not exactly sure how i would accomplish it and make it fit flush enough to body work, how do you handle the seam as well? let is squeeze out and grind it flat, bondo, fiberglass?
i was contemplating this on my Ford, using the adhesive to fill in the conversion windows. Not exactly sure how i would accomplish it and make it fit flush enough to body work, how do you handle the seam as well? let is squeeze out and grind it flat, bondo, fiberglass?
For the seams, I had a few places to worry about. The edge meeting the door jam(s) are not a real big issue because I'm modifying the doors too. The back corner of the rear panel. The bottom of the pannel where it went into the curved body line and The top. I left a slight space between the top of the panel and the gutter rail, and later filled that with 3M bare metal seam sealer.
As far as the bottom and back, On the first side I sanded off any excess adhesive after it dried. Then tack weld it in around the edge and ground the welds down to some degree. Then I blasted the area and applied a base coat of long strand fiber filler, then a short strand like duraglass followed by light weight filler and finished with iceing.
When I do this side, I think I want to shoot it with a coat of DP 90 epoxy primer, then apply filler(s), then shoot it again with epoxy primer. ....then hit it with high build K36/38 type stuff and block sanding it all out. (the whole van needs shot with high build and blocked out).
Got the panel on last nigh, much better than the first attempt. I'll get pictures when I can, but for now I'm taking a brake to go vannin. CBS is this weekend!
Unfortunately for me I didn’t notice the issue with last panel (attempt # 2) until after I tack welded around it about every inch. The panel must have slide down ¼” while installing/clamping it down. This left more of a gap than I wanted at the top, and caused the lower part of the panel to sit ¼” lower on the curved body line slightly pushing the lower part out. Last night I un-welded and un-glued it and chucked it into the scrap pile.
I’m doing it again with a slightly different strategy.
Note: Do the rear side panels FIRST… (As they have the most curves and are difficult to clamp) and then move towards the front of the van….
I'm really sorry to hear of the installation issues you've been having. That panel looked *so* beautiful! And thanks for all the candid pictures. Not everyone would post the problems along with the successes, but they're very educational.
I'm curious; have you ever used Clecos? I attached an enormous irregular-shaped donor panel with body panel adhesive using them and some screws which I ground the heads off of after the adhesive cured. (I didn't use the countersunk rivets also shown in the picture.)
The panel even crossed both body lines:
That was an early picture; I spent a lot of time tweaking the shape of the metal until it would lay totally flat using only 2 Clecos... then I glued it down and ran in the screws to pin the donor panel against the glass spacer beads in the panel adhesive... a very important part of maximizing the bond line strength.
As long as you wash the adhesive out of the Clecos with solvent before it totally cures they will be fine.
BTW, I used 3M 08116 panel adhesive, which has a somewhat longer cure time, and is nearly black in color. It has a really odd sort of a burned epoxy scent. Not sure that I'd like to use a lot of it indoors without ample ventilation...
I 2nd your idea of using the DP90. I got the black stuff. If you reduce K36 correctly it can be used as either a sealer or as a primer; sounds like you'd benefit from both. DP90 doesn't have any UV resistance though, so you'll want to top coat it before going out. They would prefer it not be scuffed, (I asked PPG) so plan on making use of the window accordingly to apply the top coat.
I wish you the very best of fortune in installing your next panel!!
It's all good ;-) This is an educational experience. I think about all the cool stuff I've learned along the way and how much more there is to learn. I’m having fun. Wish I’d wrap this up though, I really want to get some paint on it. Still got a ways to go though.
I have not used Clecos, however you are the second person to recommend them. Think I’ll pick up a set. I’ve been using the Medium adhesive from Lord Fusor. They also have a fast cure and a slow cure. I might try the slow stuff to get more work time.
Really, they said don’t scuff the DP90? Is that if you are staying within the window? If you shoot the DP90 I think you have 2 weeks to apply something else.
I got most of my Clecos from Eastwood, primarily due to the convenience of them selling a complete kit at a decent price when I needed it. I have a few of my Dad's Clecos too, (he was a military aircraft Mechanic) but I didn't want to risk gumming them up with adhesive if anything unexpected disrupted my workflow. The Eastwood ones are cheap enough I wouldn't be depressed if I did screw up and lose a couple by accident.
The only thing required to use Clecos is something that makes 1/8" holes. To reduce warpage of the metal so it would lay as flat as possible, I used a handheld 1/8" metal punch on the outer panel. Metal punches make wonderfully clean, flat, uniform holes.
Then once I got the panel laying totally flat against the inner panel, I used a bunch of new 1/8" drill bits on the inner panel, using the punched holes as guides. Then I thoroughly deburred the drilled holes, then degreased.
I was originally planning on applying the black DP90, and leaving it that way for a while (weeks or even months) before scuffing and applying a color and clearcoat. (I want to do murals, and figured I'd do a bit at a time, so I could minimize the paint thickness to an absolute minimum) The Tech Support line folks said it's best not to use DP90 that way. You can scuff K36, but not DP90. This was also when they told me there were no UV inhibitors in DP90, so sunlight is not it's friend.
DP90 can be recoated with itself up to one week, but a top coat like a color should go on within a 30-90 minutes window depending on which reducer was used.
If DP90 is left bare for more than one week, you almost need to start over by sanding it (not just scuffing) and cleaning up thoroughly before recoating with more DP90. And then you have to put down a double coat of DP90, which is quite a lot of paint on a van!
So by waiting, you will have had to put down 3 full coats of DP90!!
I don't think waiting an extended time before top coating is worth all the extra paint sanded onto the floor and in the extra coats. This stuff isn't cheap, and the cost in my limited free time to perform all the extra work would be significant. Epoxy dust isn't the healthiest of things to be around either...
The basic issue is that the film thickness of DP90 is a critical parameter; it doesn't act adequately as a protectant of the surface under it unless it's thick enough. If it's scuffed, it's considered damaged. That's one of the reasons why you have to put down the double coat after one week; after the sanding which is required due to the extended wait, you have to build the film thickness back up.
From what the folks at PPG and several other very experienced painters told me, it seems like the best thing to do is get the DP90 down, then use either K36, or a color base coat & clear coat on top during the window. The K36 is probably more in line with what you and I are wanting to do, as it can stay there exposed as long as you want, and it's scuffable, sandable, etc.
The only hitches that I know about are that K36 reduced as a sealer shouldn't be applied to DP series epoxy any earlier than 16 hours after the epoxy has been applied. When you apply base coat over K36 sealer which was applied to DP before the 16 hours, lifting can occur.
Another potential hitch is that if you use K36 reduced as a primer, it shouldn't be used in spots; it has to extend well past any other primer coverage, preferably covering an entire panel, or yes, you guessed it; lifting can occur when the color coat is applied, especially if the K36 film thickness is insufficient.
Wouldn't it be nice if all this chemistry were a lot simpler?
;0)
BTW, since K36 is tintable with standard PPG tints, you can make it whatever color you want, so it can sort of approach the appearance having a color coat. Much more satisfying to an impatient old Vanner like me than plain old battleship gray primer!! Then too, I figure that if you tint it the same color as what you intend to paint the van, any chips or scratches in the future should be far less obvious.
As a general rule of thumb, waiting a long time between coats can result in building up a lot of tension between the coats, which could threaten to cause some lifting depending on the situation and circumstances. Providing that the paint system is designed for it, it's usually best to work all at once, staying within the windows. That doesn't always fit our busy lives, so we just have to do the best we can. Everyone's been in that place at one time or another.
Don't hesitate to call the Tech Support lines for advice or ask questions at web sites like KustomKultureLounge, where pushing the boundaries of paint application and sharing the results is an everyday occurrence.
Some of us have those in our tool cabinets at work. Those are quite expensive, at least the ones we get are just about $200 give or take a few bucks depending on how many dies and where we get them.
I have sheet metal and Cleco's. More adhesive tomorrow. I have the panel half attached with clecos now. They are AWESOME!
For the holes in the outer panel, I marked it every 2.5" then used a drill press. I'm using that outer panel as the guide with an air drill to punch the holes in the van and keep everything lined up nice. Hopefully pictures soon.
I have sheet metal and Cleco's. More adhesive tomorrow. I have the panel half attached with clecos now. They are AWESOME!
For the holes in the outer panel, I marked it every 2.5" then used a drill press. I'm using that outer panel as the guide with an air drill to punch the holes in the van and keep everything lined up nice. Hopefully pictures soon.
Clecos are the way to go! I tried to tell you sooner but ran out of time.
So useful for sheet metal work especially if you're alone.
All of your work is awesome! Thank you for pushing the limits of custom vans!
Still have a lot of work to do, but shaping up....
I think I'm going to go back along the bottom passanger side lower panels and restrip it to bare metal. This is where I first started, and I welded those lower body seams and applied filler directly over bare metal.
I found a few spots where I did this (Like the seam just infrotn of the rear wheel below the doors) and found a weeeeee bit of rust was forming where my weld was. I think I want to restrip those lowest panels to bare metal again, Epoxy prime the bare metal, and then rework the filler on top of that. Luckly I did not get very far before I realized this.
yeah yeah.... I know its reverse progress... but I can fix it now... OR I can be really pissed off later. That is the nice thing about body work, when you screw up you can always strip it off and start over. I'm only out materials and time at this point. Did I mention I'm learning a lot on this project? hahaha
Here is a pic of the seam just in front of the passanger side rear wheel after stripping off the filler. Yep. a weeeee bit of rust in the welds, over time I fear that would become a lot of rust or enough to pop.
....Epoxy over bare metal, Filler over Epoxy.... Lessons Learned. It's Reverse progress... but should yield a better end result.
Yep.... Stripping off my very first filler work was the right call. Glad I cought that now. Stoked I realized that before paint, bummed about the man hours. Its for the better good. (and I've gotten a lot better with the filler since then too, lol)
Sweet Jesus, its been months. Having Creative withdraws...
Having a kid puts a bit of a monkey wrench in the time table. Had a kid free weekend, so I spent it in the garage.
...to bring you up to speed, I had some reverse progress. I stripped down any filler work and started over. Epoxy Primer FIRST... then filler...
Blasting the front on Friday. I did the outside and the inside/underside. (Found out its tricky to blast and shoot upside down)
Sweaky clean after spending most of Saturday air hose'n and shop vac'n.
Saturday evening I got the Epoxy primer on it.
Then took a short break to screw off and see what the boyz where up too... (its a bird, its a plane, nope... just Mr. Frame)
Spent most of sunday giving the garage a much needed cleaning....and then started in on the passanger side.
Dont forget....it's Movember!
With a little luck, by the end of next weekend.... I'm hoping to wrap up the filler work on the passanger side, hit it again with Epoxy primer, and get it top coated with the high build sandable primer.
Looking very good Hombrew!! Lost track of this thread like a lot of others but you are coming along very well!! Great job! Pat on the back for the hard work
I spent a lot of time making the door jam real nice its the little things. Made it to a good stopping point by noon on Sunday. Hope to work on it more this weekend.
Still block sanding....Block sanding is actully pretty cool.
...but so is cutting stuff up, lol..
Chopped the rear floor pans out to take measurements and figured out how I want to do the back end. The back is easy compared to the front. How low I can go is limited by the front. Without Channeling or Body Dropping this beast, I should be able to pull off an 11" drop. That would put it at 5" off the ground when layed out. Making the gutter rail/roof about eye level (I'm 5'9").
Good thing I never danced on my roof and that it's still straight.
Going to do the back first, it will take little while, but that give me time to save up for a mustang 2 IFS for the front.
Next step is getting the whole frame level on my very unlevel garage floor. Measure / Mark things to keep everything straight. then weld in a Notch and cut the frame :-P That's the point of no return....
While eagerly awaiting its arrival, I focused on leveling the van "frame". It has to be totally level all the way around. My garage floor is horrible - Sunk, Cracked, Shifted, etc. I don't think there is a level area on the whole floor. Its sloped in all directions.
I spent hours workin it last night and have the entire frame ALMOST level in every direction. Hopefully the end of the night I'll have it totally level and be ready to go. The last thing I need is for something to shift or move on me.
Still waiting on the notch kit to ship. Between the storms / holidays it took longer than expected, and then there was a snag with the supplier, etc... Kinda bends my shaft, but what can I do? The dude I spoke with said he would do his best to try and have it in the mail early next week. Guess we will see what happens... Its only being Shipping from IN to OH. I'm REALLY REALLY hoping to have it by the weekend of 11-13th so I can get that sucker installed and order the 4 link parts.
....in the mean time I found some New ISUZU Gear boxs on flea bay. "NEW GENUINE ISUZU / GM Steering Gear Box Assembly PN 8971249254 Rodeo Passport"
I had a hell of a time tracking down a used one from the bone yard. I ordered a new one for the actual install, and will save the used one that I currently have as an extra to keep in stock. (I hear these last forever, but having extra parts in stock is never a bad thing.)
...Still looking for an extra set of solid front doors if anyone comes across some.
"The maximum standard frame width that will fit between the springs is about 33-1/2","
Ballz! I will need to Narrow the frame at the centerline. Possibly might need to drop the crossmember too to get the desired ride height.... Didnt plan on that part.
If I narrow the frame at the axle centerline..... I wonder if the radiator will still fit? (It sits right around the stock centerline) well, crap. I need to play with my tape measure somemore.
Still block sanding....Block sanding is actully pretty cool.
...but so is cutting stuff up, lol..
Chopped the rear floor pans out to take measurements and figured out how I want to do the back end. The back is easy compared to the front. How low I can go is limited by the front. Without Channeling or Body Dropping this beast, I should be able to pull off an 11" drop. That would put it at 5" off the ground when layed out. Making the gutter rail/roof about eye level (I'm 5'9").
Good thing I never danced on my roof and that it's still straight.
Going to do the back first, it will take little while, but that give me time to save up for a mustang 2 IFS for the front.
Next step is getting the whole frame level on my very unlevel garage floor. Measure / Mark things to keep everything straight. then weld in a Notch and cut the frame :-P That's the point of no return....
Dude you are way past point of no return! Looking good man!!
WHOOOHA! The notch kit should arrive tomorrow! Grabbed a fresh tank of gas, new tips, and larger wire while I was out at lunch.
I'll have to make a 2 hour round trip to pick it up from the post office in the AM. BUT, If all goes well, I'll have a few pics to post by the end of the weekend.
This the approach I took to do mine. I used steel box tube to fabricate the new rails. Like you, my limitation will be the front so I may have added more notch than I needed but we'll see. Good luck.
All the light sheet metal you got to weld you will find welding the heaver stuff actually more fun. Now you can make continuous pretty beads.
.......Wookee
I feel the same. It's funny what makes us feel good. When I have some strength in the panel, I love to weld with a Oxy/Acet torch. Even on thin metal I can make welds that typically I can grind and finish close to perfection. Thin flat panels require a mig with much patients while thicker metal can make a welder out of most people. Alignment is critical so with the thick stuff the challenge are the cuts. I really miss that stuff...
I'm still waiting on the package to arrive. :-( Spent the weekend giving the garage a much needed cleaning.
Wookee, I'm hoping my little Mig (max's out at 135 Amps) is strong enough to penetrate the 3/16th notch plates. I picked up bigger wire. Was running .023 for the sheet metal, planning to use .030 on the notchs.
Wookee, I'm hoping my little Mig (max's out at 135 Amps) is strong enough to penetrate the 3/16th notch plates. I picked up bigger wire. Was running .023 for the sheet metal, planning to use .030 on the notchs.
This is where a nice 220v TIG would come in handy, or a 440v multi process. I keep drooling over a 440v multi process with built in generator. Some day hopefully I can add that to my work space.
Very nice work done so far, look forward to more pictures
I’m so pissed off I’m having chest pains… The US Postal Service can eat my crevice!
So I ordered the notch kit on 12/26/12 and paid for it. Storm and holiday delayed things, and then an inventory shortage added to the delay. Ok, fine.
The sender ships the package Priority mail via the USPS (instead of USP ground) to try and get it here more quickly. The package was accepted by the Post Office in Francisco, IN on 1/10/13 @ 3:59 pm.
Priority Mail®, Shipment Accepted, January 10, 2013, 3:59 pm, FRANCISCO, IN 47649 Expected Delivery By: January 12, 2013
That was the last known location of the package.
(It’s a 44# package with a bunch of steel in it and didn’t get lost between the seats of the truck) I’ve been trying to track down this package for days…..
I have called the called the post office in Francisco IN, The post master swears the package was put on a truck for the main plant in Evansville IN. I called the Post office here, they haven’t seen it.
I’ve called USPS customer support numerous times. I got stories ranging from “We have no record of that package ever physically being in our possession”, “it must be in transit”, “I can’t tell you anything about it you have to wait for it to arrive”, “the tracking only gets updated after its delivered”, “you need to contact the sender, they have to open a package recovery claim, we can’t help you” , “you need to contact the Francisco Post office , it must be sitting there….” blah blah bullshit
I have a ticket open with the USPS, although they never contacted me like they said they would, I keep calling them to follow up on the open ticket. When I called this morning I got the run around. Everyone agrees this is odd for a priority package to get accepted and then drop off the grid. I said, “I bet if the contents was Dangerous, you guys could find it really quick, huh?” after an awkward pause she said, “ yeah we probably could.” And I said, “but in my case, you can’t find it or tell me anything about where it might be or when it might arrive?” I was told to call back at 3 pm, I will and I’ll request they elevate the case again.
Here’s the real kick in the nutz, I could have jumped in my car and drivin to Francisco IN in 6 hours, by way of Louisville. Could have made a weekend out of it and hung out with the Bluegrass guys…
but no… the Post Office has my stuff now and there is “no guarantee of a delivery date”. With the USPS, you might get your packages…. You might not. Both is totally acceptable, as there’s no guarantee… All that “priority” stuff is marketing spin priority; I’m not a priority at all. Silly me.
I also contacted the Seller and asked bout placing another order and usin gUSP ground - He doesnt have any in stock.
I contacted another seller, KP components in Texas, they wouldnt have any more made unitl early next week and with UPS ground shipping they think its unlikely that I would get it before the weekend of the 26th.
At this point I would buy a second set, just to ensure one got here by next weekend... but that wont pan out either. There's notign to do but sit and wait....
Lookgin back, maybe I should have paid the extra $250 to have 44# of steel Next Day shipped via UPS. I'm F'n livid!
That's why the Postal Service is losing money by the billions because they suck ass.
The company I work for was building machinery for them as part of large contract. They defaulted on some of the money and well needless to say we kicked that program to the curb. See ya and I wouldn't wanna be ya!
Dude! You've been kicking butt! Nice work. Bummer about the mishaps, but it happens to the best of us. Just a little more time. The more you do, the more different issues you will come upon.
The van is looking awesome! Too bad about the 'C' notches. Maybe you should cancel them and make them up yourself, like Randy did.
Man, sorry to hear about the problems and glad to see that they have finally arrived. Have fun with the installation!
As for the welding, I'd find some scrap metal about the same thickness and try welding it first. Once you know the outcome you can then tackle your project. Remember, measure twice, cut once...
I’m so pissed off I’m having chest pains… The US Postal Service can eat my crevice!
So I ordered the notch kit on 12/26/12 and paid for it. Storm and holiday delayed things, and then an inventory shortage added to the delay. Ok, fine.
The sender ships the package Priority mail via the USPS (instead of USP ground) to try and get it here more quickly. The package was accepted by the Post Office in Francisco, IN on 1/10/13 @ 3:59 pm.
Priority Mail®, Shipment Accepted, January 10, 2013, 3:59 pm, FRANCISCO, IN 47649 Expected Delivery By: January 12, 2013
That was the last known location of the package.
(It’s a 44# package with a bunch of steel in it and didn’t get lost between the seats of the truck) I’ve been trying to track down this package for days…..
I have called the called the post office in Francisco IN, The post master swears the package was put on a truck for the main plant in Evansville IN. I called the Post office here, they haven’t seen it.
I’ve called USPS customer support numerous times. I got stories ranging from “We have no record of that package ever physically being in our possession”, “it must be in transit”, “I can’t tell you anything about it you have to wait for it to arrive”, “the tracking only gets updated after its delivered”, “you need to contact the sender, they have to open a package recovery claim, we can’t help you” , “you need to contact the Francisco Post office , it must be sitting there….” blah blah bullshit
I have a ticket open with the USPS, although they never contacted me like they said they would, I keep calling them to follow up on the open ticket. When I called this morning I got the run around. Everyone agrees this is odd for a priority package to get accepted and then drop off the grid. I said, “I bet if the contents was Dangerous, you guys could find it really quick, huh?” after an awkward pause she said, “ yeah we probably could.” And I said, “but in my case, you can’t find it or tell me anything about where it might be or when it might arrive?” I was told to call back at 3 pm, I will and I’ll request they elevate the case again.
Here’s the real kick in the nutz, I could have jumped in my car and drivin to Francisco IN in 6 hours, by way of Louisville. Could have made a weekend out of it and hung out with the Bluegrass guys…
but no… the Post Office has my stuff now and there is “no guarantee of a delivery date”. With the USPS, you might get your packages…. You might not. Both is totally acceptable, as there’s no guarantee… All that “priority” stuff is marketing spin priority; I’m not a priority at all. Silly me.
I will never ship usps without insurance through the wazoo again as well!!! Sent a package out 11/26/12 and the f'er still hasn't arived. F them and the white truck they drive! Glad you got yours waiting to see end results! Keep up the good work man!
Leveling the sub frame first on jack stands and rail road ties made this a breeze. Put a jack under the back axle to find where its located under load, marked the center line with a plumbob and it was all down hill from there.....
Everything came out dead nutz square and level.
Floor Before:
Floor After:
Could Still Turn back...
Too Late!
Got Good Penetration ;-)
Rail Before:
Rail After:
Step One Done. Now I need to box the rest of it in.
a couple of his kits can work just not the mustang rack and pinion.
Looks like you where using flux core wire on those welds
.....Wookee
Hmmm.... I'll have to re-read the box again. I really hope i didnt grab the flux core wire by mistake, LMAO. That would suck, I ran Gas and the machine was not wired up for flux core.
I didnt clean the welds up at all before taking the pics.
I havent chopped the front up yet, I still have to finish the back(BUT its a good time to think about it). Fatman is a product line that I havent looked at yet. I'll have to check that out.
I was looking at the extra smoke and the spatter out side of your welds. flux core wire leaves a slag over the welds. It also looks different than solid wire when you load it into your machine.
I used a flux core wire in an industrial setting that also ran gas.The tensile strength of this wire was stronger than straight solid wire was.
one of the VCVC member took an Early Chevy to Fatmans they told him the van was not set up for there application and it would be unsafe to do it.
It took a very smart vanner like Frank Costa to come up with and answer of how to convert an earlys steering box over to safely steer front in front of the axles center line.
ford arrow star rack and pinion
Isuzu trooper steering box.
Corvette independent front suspension.
This set up can be adapted over to a Fat Mans cross member IDFS set up.
First thing I'm doing when I get home tonight is looking at the spool in the machine. I'm really curious now.
Frank is a smart guy! I chatted with him a bit in the past when I first started thinking abotu all this. He's the one who turned me onto the Isuzu steering box (I have two in stock a used and new one) and the ArrowStar rack (which I dont have yet).
The corvette frame with IFS / IRS and the drive train takes the cake. I bet that rides really nice when its done.
I checked last night, I used solid wire and the gas was on
Getting a self driven internet crash course on Pinion angle stuff. I've read a number of approaches, and a several "right" and "wrong" ways. pinion angle vs TRUE pinion angle, etc. Anyone have any input, helpful or not??? hehehe
I dont really want to throw a block and transmission in this thing and take it off the jackstands to check the pinion angle. If thats what I gotta do I will, but if I can avoid it...lol...
Are you concerned about the pinion angle because you are lowering the van? If you are using the original leaf springs it won't be much of an issue. The distance of drop will make a difference in your pinion angle, but as long as you are not dropping more than 3 or 4" it shouldn't be too far off. At most you may need to add an angle shim between the spring perch and the springs. If you are doing an axle flip, then you have to relocate the spring perches anyway, so bolt everything in place and when you are done with the engine swap and the drop set your angles and then weld the perches to the rear.
When it's parked it should be about an 11" drop with the pinch weld sitting 5" from the ground (trans pan sits 4" lower than the Pinch weld in its stock location). Planning to do a 4-link in the rear with a mustang 2 in the front and air bags all around.
I need to start mocking up a triangulated 4-link in the rear. That's what got me thinking about pinion angle.
For the motor, planning on a mopar small block (would like to stroke a 360), probably use the 727 trans (might get an aftermarket one, not sure). I have those parts in stock so I could do a mock up. In the big picture it might not be such a bad idea to toss the block and trans back in. Then I can keep figuring out the front end. ...and the block wouldn’t be in my way anymore..... There is a possibility that I'll need to move the engine mounts back a few inches for clearance in the front but not sure yet.
Sounds like a good plan. If you use an adjustable 4-Link in the rear it should be pretty easy to make adjustments as needed.
That being said, with all the modifications you are planning it's prolly best to set the angle of the pinion as best you can with the van as close to ride height as possible with the engine and trans in place, or at leas as close as you can get to where it will sit. If you at least start with a rough dimension you can make up a few degrees with the adjustments on the heim joints on the four link rods, considering you are using that type of rods.
I've been dreaming of my projects lately and doing some searches for four link parts to make one up and found this site http://www.artecindustries.com/ has some really nice stuff and a some reasonable kit prices too.
I wish I lived closer, would love to come help you out with this.
Homebrew, what area of Ohio are you in? I'll be in the US the first 10 days of March and if I had time I'd love to talk with you about your project. I don't have any expertise in chassis setup but I do plan to do exactly what you are doing when I get on my project. I'm in the Toledo area. Thanks!
Blasted the rails and wheel wells. OMG, that was some tuff crap. Hard to scrape, but heat woud cause it to smear... after removing all that crap I blasted the metal.
Primed the rails and wheel wells (I'll do the front and back after rippgin out the leaf springs).
Put the extra motor and trans in it so I can start the rear link engineering. Dropepd the Transmission in through the motor hole, set it on a jack, and pulled it back by the rear axle.
Put the engine in throught the side door, but then the picker leg was in the way of the trans/jack action. After jockeying that around everything bolted right up. I did not put the torqconverter or bolt the flex plate to anything, its just for a mock up anyway.
I ordered a bunch of steel and some more rear end parts. As soon as I can determine how long to make my link bars I can order the last of the rear end stuff. In the mean time I have a growing to-do list. I'm also going to cut out more of the floor. I'm not thrilled about the idea of tunneling the drive shaft (reduces cab space), I just might have too. Either way, the middle section of floor between pumpkin and the engine, but inside the rails is coming out. I dunno, I’ve seen other vans bagged and slammed without tunneling. But looking at mine if the axle is way up in the van guts, the stock cross member rails could be right in the way. Removing the floor will give me a lot more room to work with the drive shaft in while moving the axle up and down and observing. Worst-case I end up tunneling it, I can fab some really cool shaft safety loops and stuff. My initial thought was, F it, I’ll body drop the thing. But I don’t think that would really address my potential drive line clearance issues as the engine would still mount to the rails and the transmission would still hang from a cross member.
Planning to order the front cross member late next week so I can at least stand there and stare at it The other factor in all this is… I may or May not have to move the engine back a few inches. Things to consider… Good Times. Maybe I’ll pick up some cigars and go to town on it this weekend.
Are you planning on running air bags? If so, consider your normal ride height when doing your planning. If you notch and reinforce the cross rails for the drive shaft, you can drop it down with minimal clearance for show.
Are you planning on running air bags? If so, consider your normal ride height when doing your planning. If you notch and reinforce the cross rails for the drive shaft, you can drop it down with minimal clearance for show.
Yes, air baggin ;-) Good point, I'm not planning to drive it totally layed out and collecting reflectors.
? I must have been having a moment or something. There is only one stock crossmember and thats by the transmission mount. The others are just 1/8" bent steel brackets.
I was going to add a crossmember in the rear end ;-)
? I must have been having a moment or something. There is only one stock crossmember and thats by the transmission mount. The others are just 1/8" bent steel brackets.
I was going to add a crossmember in the rear end ;-)
Got the Crank, Transmission, and Pumpkin recorded with a $9 Johnson Magnetic Angle Locator. I want to get a digital one, but this will get me started. (I took the readings with it on the ground.)
CRANKSHAFT:
REAREND:
TRANSMISSION:
The Crank seems to be less than the Rear and Trans. Could be a bad pic angle? Old Motor mounts (I did use some old ones that I found in the attic.)? Maybe the tool was not flush?
I have the van in the air on RR ties and jackstands. The frame is level again. The RR ties work great after you get those level to begin with.
So are you happy with that drop or are you going to modify the floor support to go down another 2"? Keep in mind the front end as well. The front wheel wells are under the seats, you need to think about them while you do the back too.
Link Parts shipped! Wonder if the USPS can get them to me, or if the loose this round too? (I wish they had not shipped via USPS. oh well, parts in the mail.)
Ken, I'm happy with it for now, its a good place to start. I have room to play around in the rear still, could go lower with the current set up. As you mentioned my limitation is really in the front end. So the plan is, see how low I can get it initially without the channel/bodydrop. Stand there, drink a bit (or a lot), Look at it for a while, and then decided if its low enough for me there, or if I still want to drop it vs the amount of work involved, etc. I can get it pretty darn low without chopping out the wheel well and into the door. But is that Low enough? not sure yet. I can cut into the door 4", at that point the window wont roll fully down. I've kept the wheel well/seat/door/window factor in the back of my mind this whole time. Also, the Lowest point on the van is the trans pan. That has to be factored in.
I was real hip to doing the mustang 2 in the front end, but I've recently been helpfully nudged into the world of IFS design. wow man - It's a science, but super freaking cool!!!! I want to spend some more time doing research and come up with a few more designs before I commit with one on the front. Also kicking around designing my own suspension from scratch. The mustang 2 is still a do-able option. You know how I am...I got a ask a million questions first and look at all the options
but I got time... Hell the back till isn't done...
I still have to buy/build/install plumbing, controls, compressors, tanks, etc. That's where the money starts the add up believe it or not.
I'm also playing the wheel and tire game. Trying to stuff 18's on it, while keeping as much meat on them as possible. I'm learning a lot about tires and wheels too....
Sound like you are thinking of everything. Planning is a great thing sometimes.
I you do decide to build your own front end, the good thing is you can choose parts that are readily available. So things like brakes, rotors, etc. can be gotten easily on the road if needed.
I hear you about those things adding up $ wise. That's why I haven't done the air ride in Superbeast yet.
Only had 4 hours to work, but made some progress. It's starting to look like something. Cross member squared up and level, tacked it on. Axle centered. Upper bars are tacked on. Lower shock mounts and upper shock mount bar tacked in. Played with lower bars enough to order some bags.
Went with Slam Specialties 6" air bags, anything with a larger diameter and I risk rubbing the wheel/tire.Clicky
More to come in a few weeks. (Next weekend is Spring Back!)
HAHAHA, it better be atleast 30* or its getting relocated. Its just tacked on at the corners right now. 45* seems ideal, anything less than 30* simply will not due.
Typically in a tri 4-link, the upper links attach at the pumpkin and then spread outward twards the front of the van, as wide as you can get them, but not less than 30*. I'm just hoping that my "inverted" upper bars dont cause an adverse effect (not to be confused with a reverse tri 4-link which is all bad due to what that does to the pinion angle while in motion). Mine is kind of like a mix between a triangulated 4 link and a 3 link wishbone.
I also read some general rule about the top links being roughly 70% of the length of the bottom links and how that plays into the arch movement while the axle moves up and down.
Maintaining the most amount of lift was also a factor...
I'm still waiting on the bags to ship so I can figure out the lower links and make adjustments accordingly.... I've kind been on hold since then. (and I got lost at spring back for the weekend, hahaha)
Before anything gets seriously welded on, I need to verify all the angles are good to go and make sure there is no bind anywhere, and that the pinion angle (@ multiple axle positions) is withtin tolerance in relation to the rest of the drive line, etc... I expect to make adjustments Test & Tune!
Suspension is down right crazy, but super cool. I have several books on suspension design that I want to buy (but they aint cheap) and study ... I should have ordered those a year ago and already read them already.
While I wait on parts I'll use some string and create the center line and link lines as a visual aid and check the degrees as it sits now.
I Welcome any input you guys have. I'm just figuring this out as we go...if there is an obvious problem that I'm overlooking, now is the best time to correct it.
~~~In the mean time, I've been playing with a side project. I'm curious to see how much power I can crank out of a 6.5hp 212cc predator (honda clone) engine for the minibike. Drilled my own carb jets the other day...that was neat. Billet flywheel arrived, billet rod is on the way, 22mm mikuni carb in the mail.... found a guy to mill me a cam...and a high compresion head that I can put the SS valves in and heavy spings... (they make stroker rods, weisco pistons and roller rockers too, but thats just too much for a yard toy hahaha) Wont be long and I can throw that govener away. instead of spinning WOT at the stock 3200 RPM - 8K should be no problem with the billet guts ;-) This aint your pappy's minibike (hell it was scary stock, think I'll invest in a brain bucket)! .
So, I got a buddy who manages a plating plant. He offered to plate my links and my axle for me, even powder coat them if I wanted... I'd definitly plate then powder coat the links, but Can you think of any reason putting a zinc plating on the rear axle would come back to haunt me later?
Next question, while they dont do chrome, they do however do nickle. How well does nickle hold up over time when exposed to the elements? Anyone ever have nickle plated something attached to their van?
Thanks man, its a lot to wrap your head around - Mine is still spinning. The front is going to be something, lol
Maybe I'll throw some pics and question up on a mini trucker board, just to validate that my inverted upper links wont cause some unforseen issue. Those guys have beaten the bag and bar topic to death. I've seen some really really COOL airbag /cantilever setups though. That is some wild engineering!
Just got the notification that the bags are in the mail. Wooohooo. Should arrive mid next week. With a little luck I'll have more pictures after next weekend.
I think in the early days nickel was used before the chroming process was discovered.
Chrome plating from what I understand, uses an extra step where they actually dip it in a chromium tank after the nickel.
The dude did say the nickel finish could be super shiny. I could always get it powder coated clear? I might give him some random parts to test out various processes. (have him nickel plate some door handles, maybe my minibike flywheel cover....)
The zinc coating was super high anti corrosion, maybe get it zinc dipped then nickel plated if that's possible? Or zinc-ed and then power coated. I dunno, I'll ask him more about it I see him. He was really into it, and basically asking me to give him some stuff to plate. Cant pass that up.
I'm just curious if I have to worry about part clearance/tolerances if I get the inside of the axle plated too. wondering if I should plug the ends and center section or not.
Yes, plating will throw off tolerances. You don't want to plate inside things like that. As far a zink plating, that's basic Galvanizing. I'd beware the finish may not look like what you want.
Galvanizing and zinc plating are different processes as well.They both use zinc but galvanizing does not look as well as zinc plating.There are two reasons most people choose chromium over nickel plating. Chromium is hard very hard.Nickel is soft.They other reason is sheen.Nickel has a slightly paler sheen to it.In my opinion they both look great.They still manufacture 45 caliber pistols I believe.If you powder coat,plate or even paint they have thickness so if you are metal on metal you should readjusts for the thicknesses you need.Nickel would prob need polish before a clear powder coat for it to look really good.
Ken, thats what I was thinking....plating would have to add something....just didnt know if it would be enought to matter. I'll have to figure out a good way to plug the pumpkin and axle ends.
Hoagie, thanks for the plating info. I think I'm going ot have him plate a few random parts that I have laying around, play wround a bit, and see how it comes out.
Any and all info is helpful at this stage. ;-)
Originally Posted by lukester
Your van is gonna look awesome when it done.
Your one hell of a craftsman.
I sure hope so, because I'm just wing'in it It's the project that never ends, hahaha
Galvanizing and zinc plating are different processes as well.They both use zinc but galvanizing does not look as well as zinc plating.There are two reasons most people choose chromium over nickel plating. Chromium is hard very hard.Nickel is soft.They other reason is sheen.Nickel has a slightly paler sheen to it.In my opinion they both look great.They still manufacture 45 caliber pistols I believe.If you powder coat,plate or even paint they have thickness so if you are metal on metal you should readjusts for the thicknesses you need.Nickel would prob need polish before a clear powder coat for it to look really good.
I did not see that I meant to type, 45 caliber pistols that are nickel plated I believe.sorry if that was a wtf moment.
I’m working my way through the shock matrix mayhem, that’s been taking some time to track down the perfect shocks for my rear suspension application. Once I get that dialed in I can get more pics posted of progress. Maybe a video of the rear end going up and down, lol .
In the mean time I have been working on my rear door jam. Although it didn’t look it, it was totally rotted out across the top rail. That happens when your roof/gutter rail leaks. At first I thought it was just a little bit of rot on the ends, but I was wrong. Stabbed a screw through the metal driver all along it, can’t hand a door on that. I shopped the whole length out and tacked in some 1” square stock. Its taking a lot of welding and grinding, I’m 2/3 of the way done. I’ll post some before and after pics at some point.
I keep the front end work in the back of my mind. I’m leaning towards an ’03 or later Crown Vic / Grand marquis front clip. It’s already IFS, so it would be easy to convert to air bags. It was built for a heavier car. The cross member width is idea for the van at 34” (If I used an M2 I would have to narrow my frame rails) . I need to figure out the track width, hub to hub width, and then the rim offset games if needed.
Anyone have a 03 or later crown vic or grand marquis sitting around that can take some measurements?
Spent a lot of time playing with a tape measure. I should be able to achieve - almost - stock ride height with the airbags inflated and the shock fully extended. Then dump the air and slam it down in the weeds!
After sorting through hundreds of shocks.....The "perfect" shock for my application is Monroe PT# 555038
Ironically, this part is used in mid model dodge vans.... Go figure.
Good Golly. I cant believe I'm having this much trouble locating the Hub to Hub distance of a 2003 CV IFS. I may have to stumble around the junk yard with a tape measure......
I think the CV IFS is out. From what I could determine from one guys notes and another guys sketch.....
- The +03 CF IFS hub to hub distance is 67.5" (or 67 3/8"). That's about 4" wider than my stock hub to hub distance. :-(
-With the stock CV rims, 7" wide with a 5.72 backset, you end up with a track width 63.5. That's close to my current stock track width, but still s few inches too wide and I don't want to be forced to run really deep backspaced rims.
If anyone goes down that road, from what I've read, the P72 has the most desirable a arms....
The mustang 2 is still "do-able" I just want to exhaust all other options. Due diligence and all that.
Anyone know what the dimensions are on a ford aerostar front end? lol. I was going to swipe a rack from one, maybe I'll swipe the whole thing.
.....bummer.... Looks like I'll be chopping out a large section of the gutter rail above the rear drivers door. It's way more rotted than I anticipated. ......That should be neat.
Cut the bottom strip out all the way across the tip of the jam.
All that rot up in there will need to be chopped out.
Tacked on 1" square stock in to replace the top door jam and started welding it up.
After that's welded in I'll have something to build from. I'll be cutting out gutter rail and parts of the roof. Rebuilding the internal guts.
Please excuse the crudeness of this drawing, its not to scale...But if you cut the rail in half you would see something like this. The gutter rail is basically made up of four separate pieces of metal that are all spot welded together.
I'll get better pics posted, this just happened to be on my phone.
Got the frame and suspension welding done. Need to clean up the frame, blast it, and hit it with some epoxy primer.
Its going to take a while to clean the axle up really nice.
Question about 8.75 axle housings. After pulling the axles out and the third member, are there still any bearings pressed into the housing? I wanted to send the links and housing out for plating. I was going to fabricate three plates to seal up the housing during this process, a plate for each end and a plate for the third member hole.
This morning (after reading about polishing steel) I read a bunch about Hydrogen embrittlement during the chroming process (not sure which specific part). People seem to advise against chroming suspension parts. The "fix" for Hydrogen embrittlement seem to be baking the part as quickly as possible post plating.
The baking part is why I asked about pressed in bearings inside the housing. (Even if not baking, I was going to send it through the parts washer)
Wish I knew specifically what part of the chrome plating process the Hydrogen embrittlement becomes a concern. I have a pal that can get my stuff zinc or zinc-nickel plated and they just started working with powder coating. I asked if they can bake parts too, and he said yes. The stuff I saw that they did the regular alkaline zinc was pretty shiny. The Zinc nickel is a dull gray but far more corrosive resistant and ideal for subsequent powder coating.
I was considering spending the money to get to chromed, but after this mornings research, I'm leaning toward a zinc/nickel + powder coat. The "chrome" color powder coat doesn't look cheesy. It's obviously not show quality chrome, but may be a good for for my application. The other down side of the alkaline zinc plating is I'm going to have to polish the shit out of this axle before plating otherwise it will just look like a shiny POS axle instead of a rust one
(that's why I was reading about polishing steel. This place seems helpful if your looking for that kind of info: caswell plating )
I always thought changing rear end fluid was a pain with these 8.75" rear ends. Timmy got a vac pump/sucker gizmoe with a hose to suck out the fluid via the filler hole. While we have the rear end out I might as well install a drain plug in the bottom of the pumpkin housing.
No real news, still smoothing out the axle (takes forever). I had to switch gears for an evening, so I made the end caps last night out of plate steel. After I get a gasket for the center section, I can use it as a template to make a plate for that hole as well.
Still not sure what the best material is to create gaskets for this while its being plated. Wonder if the acid would eat through cork?
Go up to the truck stop by you and buy one of the plastic type truck mud flaps and cut it out of that. It would be great for a seal and the acid is in plastic tanks (from what I saw at the chrome zinc plating places I have worked in) so you don't have to worry about it getting ate up. You will find many uses for the rest of the $9.00 flap.
I don't think words can describe how happy I am. I have been Re-energized for this build.
I laid off the body work for a while because I wanted to make sure the body lines I spent a lot of time on are super straight. In September Matchstick Vanner-Expressed a door that he made for me to our Event. I finally got someone over to help me man handle it around and do an initial test fit.
I'm totally totally stoked. No Windows, No panel seams, No handles, or Hinges! SMOOOOOOTH!
I haven't kept up on this thread for a while but it sure is looking sweet!!! I'm in serious progress on my own (the hard part, spending lots of money, haha) but I'll start my build thread soon too!!!
For what ever reason, it seems nearly impossible to have both time and money at the same time.
I'm really looking forward to your build thread. THAT'S going to be something!!!
Lately I have been watching old Custom Car / Mod shows on net flicks. They make it look so easy. Dozen plus guys who all specialize in what they do working insane hours to blow a car out in weeks (boggles the mind). But I don't feel bad. I'm probably right on schedule considering I have to learn as I go, have a full time job doing something completely different, only worked on it in my "free time", and being a full time single parent there is a lot less of that these days Someday I'm going to drive it again - perseverance will prevail!
Come to think of it, They never do show the guy on his hands and knees shopvac'n the shop floor over and over and over again... but suppose that doesn't make for very interesting TV ;-)
In every build there is a point when the free and fun part ends and the money must then be spent. The "look" usually develops early on in the initial stage of construction. You're excited, you have drive, support and very little investment. Then you hit the wall. These are the days when you spend a ton of money and cannot tell where it went. This was where I always made a huge mistake. I'd build rather quickly so when I hit the wall I'd finance the cost to complete the build using good old American credit. Once completed the bills come in and somehow the joy is gone. But like an addict I would sell the van, pay the bills and start building again.
The moral of story is to build slow and pay for everything as you go. Only then do you really enjoy the end result.
The SUPA-DUPA cool part about this door is the metal inside ;-)
Masked it off:
Cleaned it up:
Epoxy primed:
more Axle action... Got the tabs welded on and the welds smoothed out. Did a ruff smooth of the housing. I burnt through a LOT of the 3M zip zip disks. Hand sanding out scratches now, hope to start polishing soon.
Not sure what's going on with that door , as I just jumped in here but it is looking like you have my attention. You need to get this thread on a single thread so people like me can see this from the start.
your confused? This thread has been going for a such long time that I have used it as a reference. You Could always subscribe to it. Like I said in the beginning, this is an adventure..... I don't know what's going to happen along the way, but will continue to inch along towards the destination. Had to document it somewhere and vanning.com seemed like a fine place. I have been updating this thread since it started on July 27th 2010 @ 4:02 pm. Its going to be long. It started with getting a garage, buying a MIG welder at a yard sale, and cutting a hole in the side of my van. It snow balled from there. You can read all about it, hahaha....
If you just want to surf pics taken over the years I started stuffing them into a blog just to consolidate them. And even that is not in total chronological order. Click-Clack
HomeBrew, I just finished reading this entire thread (over a few days)and I must tell you how impressed I am at your "won't take "no" for answer" mentality! I've been a Welder now for 30+ years and from what I can see in the pics your welding prowess has come a long way since the beginning. Practice, practice, practice...the only way to get better! Good luck with this project. hope you finish it (relatively) soon!
Thanks BudVan - I'm having a lot of fun learning. (can't believe you read the whole thing, but thanks!! Its and Adventure.)
I've been back on the IFS kick. Been on the horn with about a dozen or so MFGrs and custom shops the last two weeks. Still a bit shocked by what a few of them said (and didn't say). I'm getting super excited to make the plunge.
The rear axle is nearly ready, got my gaskets made. That was a trip and took for ever. I'll have to dump and post pics of that tangent.
Not sure wtf I was thinking when I thought It would only get baked to 150*F.....brain fart or something. They are going to cook this thing after plating and then again after powder coating, somewhere around 400*F. Good news - the gaskets between the plates and the housing are really only there to keep the chemicals, metals, and powders from getting INSIDE the housing. The plates and gasket are individually keyed so they don't get mixed up and can be removed for baking. (....jackass... )
I do have one question about what appears to be an oil seal at either end of the 8.75 axle housing shaft. Is that something I can remove / replace / reinstall on my own? Or is that something that needs to be pressed in or requires a special tool reinstall?
Someone on here Suggested using a mud flap as the material. It seemed like the best option and worked out well.
Picked up a Rubber Semi truck Mud flap. It was taller than my van tire and just as wide. 1/4" thick in the thickest parts and 1/8" thick in the thinnest. One side of the flap is flat, I used that for the axle housing matting side. the grooved site towards the plate/caps. Added in some 1/8" flat bar to off set the grove. Seems to work. Each plate is now keyed to its matching gasket. It can only be assembled one way. This should avoid confusion at the plating plant.
You get the idea.... Finished welding up the tabs last night and started polishing. Bit more polishing and a quick sand blast of the very ends of the axle housing and we should be about ready to plate it and the bars.
Some "frame" diagrams to follow along.
Basic Stock Frame:
Mods to Frame (no IFS clip yet):
Very glad I did not rush out and buy a mustang II kit. It would have worked, but I have a better and safer solution now. Regardless of which IFS being used, the front frame still requires a some modification.
Totally dig'in to the Art Morrison IFS. Out of all the people I contacted, they provided me with the best information and drawings. They make some top notch shit and I don't mind paying a little more. (It could be the difference between life and death.) I'll end up with higher end parts too, for example Flaming River Power front steering rack'n'pinion, wilwood spindles/rotors/calipers, etc.
Their weld in crossmembers come in six widths. [see page 44 of their catalog] (For some price they could likely make what ever you wanted.) For my application the 62" track width would be about perfect. Check measured my stock one again last night.
Then noticed their fully welded Bikini clip package [Page 45 in their catalog] ooohhhhhh. That would make grafting it onto my frame much easier. Knowing everything to that point is straight/true and welded up at their shop some how makes me feel better about it. I 'm confident I can get that attached to the frame in a manner that it wont fall off, lol, but keeping the geometry true is another story.
Need to save up a bit more before I can order the parts, but that's the plan as it stands.
HomeBrew Thanks for showing you're body work with the mig welder,you spured me on to buy a new Lincoln mig welder 140 amp and now Thanks to you I have a better understanding of the process and how to go about it,Thanks again,joe
AWESOME! That's how it starts, I found it addictive.
I do love my Lincoln. I've fixed lawn mower decks, made mini bike gas tanks, metal stands for stuff, exhaust pipes on numerous cars, helped the neighbor kid out, Modded a bike and go-kart frame or two, hell Clover and I made keg hauling wagon by cutting up a bicycle and welding some shelving to it, etc. It's kind of funny to be honest. If something steel breaks.....you could fix that.... need a bracket on something? you can make that... don't fit? cut more off or weld more on. Kind of like gluing steel together The practical uses for a welder just kind of present themselves after you have one. It is an eye opening experience.
Like everyone keeps saying, "Practice, practice, practice..."
I'd suggest just getting a bunch of scrap metal and cutting it up and welding shapes and stuff out of it (seriously), or even just cutting it up and welding it back together. Play with different steel thicknesses, that lets you play with the wire speed and heat vs. the material you are working with. I still don't have it dialed in but I get a little better each time I play with it. Best of luck on YOUR adventure Do some google'n, "how to Mig weld" - Youtube is great too!
someone once told me, "You will either get REAL good at grinding or REAL good at welding by the time your done..."
I still don't know how that's going to play out. BUT I am doing less grinding then before... so buy an angle grinder with extra wheels and some good protective wear ;-) Safety First!
I have my 84 dodge 4x4 pickup that has a bad frame so I have all kinds body metal to practice on But rest assured i'll read everyone of your posts and learn as I go, I have all the safety equipment and the new grinder to use and let's not forget the fire extinguisher on hand too,weld on,Thanks joe.
Its good to have a donor, I F'ed up quite a bit, but that was just part of the learning process I suppose. The fire extinguisher IS a good idea - I actually used mine (did I mention that I don't know what I'm doing? I'm Just winging it and learning as I go, hence the adventure part HAHAHAHA!.)
When I was planning my Early I was leaning towards the Art Morrison stuff as well. They build for race cars so I figured it would be stronger than most ROD stuff.
The Axel seal is a simple seal. They can be a bitch to get out because they set in so deep, but install easily with a large socket and a hammer if you don't have a seal installer kit.
I did get the seals out. Ended up inverting the arms of a pulley puller and put that on the lip of the seal. Then stuck a broom stick through the housing from the other end and tapped it out with a hammer. I got to test the DIY gaskets too. I dumped in a bunch of wax/grease remover in and shook it around (twice). Much cleaner now inside. I didn't want any of that crap to bake/burn on.
I did get the seals out. Ended up inverting the arms of a pulley puller and put that on the lip of the seal. Then stuck a broom stick through the housing from the other end and tapped it out with a hammer.
Its that time of year again when we put the Xmas ale on tap..... I had all the hardware just laying around and the fridge in the garage is primarily used to keep beer cold anyway.... So, what the hell?
Went with the 1/6th barrel (5 gallons) size. I don't drink enough these days to justify a half barrel. The 1/6th Fits nice and by the time I finish it I'll be tired of it and want something else. (I really wanted the Columbus IPA, but the distributor was out... so GL XMAS Ale it was)
Thanks! I cant wait to see it plated too. Just cant decide what color to powder coat. Comes in a lot of colors. You would think I would have figured that out by now huh? details.
Joe, Glad to hear the welder is working out well. (I think its a good time.)
Ken, I'm planning on a hatch/floor/thing for the back to show off the rear suspension when parked. Then I can close it when I want to drive and keep fumes, dust, etc out of the cab. More or less a glorified dog house lid. This seems very useful for maintenance.
When its parked & slammed the axle will be stuffed way up into the notches in the cab. bunch of other crap back there too. There will be two compressors, an air tank, plumbing and power stuff in the space where the fuel tank previously existed.
Not sure where I'm gonna relocate the fuel tank to...but that's ok, don't need fuel yet. Thinking some kind of dual tank set up on the sides in the middle of the van (and away from any sparks). Dual would be good for the weight distribution, but I would like to make it work with 1 filler neck. damn details...
Didn't Ford have some kind of dual tank setup on their trucks? Was that one filler neck Hole or two? I never had one.
Racer's Choice (rciracing.com) makes some good sized fuel cells. I like their Aluminum 15 gallon 30Lx12Wx9H Cell. It would fit well between the frame rail and the outer panel. Still trying figure too the best approach for not just running two fuel cells, but refilling them as well. Might end up custom.
Garage cook'n..... Soup's on! (actually worked out well, but would use a Dutch oven next time)
I might start cutting the floor out of the front tonight. I have spent some time eye balling it. I'm thinking that if I cut it out now (before I get the back re-installed and the van sitting on all for wheels) it will be much easier to measure and mark the stock axles location under load. I want to have an accurate a point of reference for the stock location.
OH-MAN that was a LOT of spot welds to drill out. I sawzall / plasma cut the wheel wells out first. Then drilled each spot weld on the floor pans. I wanted to keep the pans as intact as possible to use as templates later. Still working forward most floor pan.
I'm not quite overwhelmed, but it is a lot to take in. I thought forming and shaping was the same thing - I was wrong. Its time to invest in a few hammers, dollies, a bag, and a stump. Seems to be a cheap place to start learning the basics. Then spend the time creating a bunch of scrap metal figuring out how to use the basic tools. maybe start out trying to make a bowl shape or an ash tray for the garage....
I've seen a lot of useful videos of metal shaping on Youtube. I especially like the ones about shaping fenders; some of those get really crazy, like on the vintage European autos. Watching the process in real time has been extremely helpful. Between the great advice I've got from Vanners here and those videos, my confidence to take on bigger jobs has increased significantly.
I needed a way to blast SMALL parts, without the BIG mess. Cost was a factor, but more importantly I didn't want to loose any more floor or bench top space. Square footage is limited.
It needed a few Modifications. While at HF I snagged a work light.
First mod was mounting the light in the box.
Second Mod was flipping the Exhaust port flange around. Found a tube of make a gasket while cleaning under the bench. So I sealed the flange when reinstalling it. I wanted to hook up the Shop Vac to the exhaust port. (poor mans air reclaimer).
I dumped in some glass beads to test out the siphon gun. I don't know if I had the pressure turned up too far or what, but I thought the siphon gun sucked.
Threw that SOB to the side... and plumbed in my pressure pot. It worked MUCH MUCH better. I had more control with all the valves within arms reach and another water collector in line on the pot to help keep the air dry.
I had Dupont's StarBlast in the pot, The Shop Vac seems sufficient. I could see what I was working on and didn't notice any leaks.
I half destroyed the garage moving stuff around trying to find a place for the box. The third location worked the best so, that's where its going to live.
Though it may be working for you currently, I'm afraid that the media will quickly ruin the internals on the vac? You may want to upgrade to one of these in the future: http://www.tptools.com/VAC-40-High-Efficiency-Vacuum,3283.html?b=d*8035 I know that the cost is somewhat high, but their products do work well and they are not too far from you? I use their "First Choice" media myself. Still need the collector though. My pressure pot is from them though, but quite old, but still works fine. If you ever go and visit their store, you'll fall in "Love" with the place, believe me! It's a body guys' dream shop! They are located in Canfield. They do have super sales from time to time as well!
Though it may be working for you currently, I'm afraid that the media will quickly ruin the internals on the vac? You may want to upgrade to one of these in the future: http://www.tptools.com/VAC-40-High-Efficiency-Vacuum,3283.html?b=d*8035 I know that the cost is somewhat high, but their products do work well and they are not too far from you? I use their "First Choice" media myself. Still need the collector though. My pressure pot is from them though, but quite old, but still works fine. If you ever go and visit their store, you'll fall in "Love" with the place, believe me! It's a body guys' dream shop! They are located in Canfield. They do have super sales from time to time as well!
Agree,,,,bought my cabinet there 15 years ago..store is awesome to visit.
I LOVE TP Tools! They ship very fast. I like actually going there, its way east of me, but worth the trip on a nice sunny day. I got my compressor from there.
I'm glad you mentioned the shop vac destruction concern. I wanted to kick that around with someone. I'm still unsure.
At one point in my mulling it over it occurred to me, this is the same shop vac that I use to suck UP all the blasting material (and what ever else, weld slag, grinder wheel dust, etc.) that lands on my garage floor when I'm blasting without a box (the frame and sides of the van, etc).
That kind of blasting makes a beach on the floor pretty fast. If I had to guess, I have likely sucked up 1000# of material from the floor with that shop vac. When it would get so full that it wouldn't suck anymore, I'd dump it out and start again HAHAHA! So far, it still sucks like the day I bought it. (? for how much longer, I don't know, but that's why I bought it in the first place, to clean the floor .)
I'm still on the fence. It IS sucking abrasive material.... but I'm not sure it ever really comes in contact with the blower motor. or at least shouldn't if the filter is working correctly.
After running through one pot of material, I looked at the contents of the shop vac. There was a few cups of material in the corner of the bottom. Thought about slapping a weak in line filter of some kind on the exhaust port (of the box). Something that wouldn't restrict airflow much but would stop any chunks of media. Maybe a coffee filter and a rubber band? Old sock?
I would like to get a real one though. Would be much less loud, and 80-90 CFM sounds like its moving the air pretty good.
Metal shaping is a lot of fun when you get into it. Like welding sheet metal, though, there is no quick way. It takes a lot of time and a lot of practice. I've made a few things, but anything big needs to be saved for your own projects, because it's hard to tell someone it took 100 hours to make a small part.
I've actually had to reform some "replacement" parts that have been bout for some projects.
Next time you do a floor, it may be a lot easier to make cardboard templates than drilling all them spot welds if you don't plan on reusing any of the pans.
Damn set backs. The daily driver croaked and I had to dip into the IFS savings to buy another one. What a bummer.
Yeah, cardboard would have been much less work. Not knowing how long it's going to take to get to that point I wanted to preserver the originals, even though I was not planning to re-use them (they can live in the attic for several months or years and be just fine).
Was hanging at the plating plant for a few hours Saturday afternoon. I finally have the axle, axle plates, & bars plated. (What a cool process.) Everything was done in Zinc nickel. Hopefully get the stuff powder coated this week after I pick a color. Stoked! I cant wait to reassemble the rear end, plumb up the air bags, and make it go whoop-whoop.... (then on to the front)
Thanks guys! Looking at it now makes me feel better about spending that many hours on an axle housing (seemed a bit crazy at one point.) I'm curious to see how well the powder coat holds up vs. paint? Either way with the underlying plating, it should be a long time before it rusts.
Been doing more research on axle and axle housing specific to the A100/A108's. Some brief notes, I'll add more to this later.
Drum to Drum length -> 61-3/4" Axle: Spline edge to outside flange end -> 30" Axle housing: Flange to flange -> 56-3/4"
Still need to verify the axle shaft part number, I found a reference to two.
Things have been slow to go on my end. Hopefully, that will get kicked back into high hear with the warm weather. Been missing those long days & nights in the garage. ;-)
Was all excited and unpacked the third member to clean it up... and suddenly the music stopped.
Hmmm..... I don't think it should look like that....
This is the third member that I affectionately call the New York rear end. It was the replacement we scored to replace the one I blew up in NY. By the look of it I was well on my way to blowing this one up too. Based on the ring gear stamp, it likes like it is a vintage 68 ring gear. I'm thinking it wasn't blown up and rebuilt previously. (both cases had been the 721 case)
Its a forced upgrade. IF I have to buy/build a fresh third member, Now would be the time to upgrade to the 489 case and stuff sure-grip in it, thinking 3.55.
oh and the stock axle in mine is a 30 spline. Guess its Time to research sure-grip options.
Ordered the Art Morrison IFS. I anticipate it taking a 4-6 weeks to fab and then the slow freight boat from Washington to oHIo (I'll be happy if its here in 2 months).
Mean while... after specing out all the parts I wanted in the third member. Think I can have one built at Moser Engineering with all the stuff I want and second day air'd to me for less than what I would spend buying the parts and then paying a shop labor to assemble it. Weird huh?
Originally I wanted to use a local place called Henderson. I had them make a driveshaft for me once and it rocked. (and I like keeping the money local if I can too.) I call Henderson Axle and drive line twice (multiple days about a week apart), Had my list of part numbers and jargon ready to talk rear end.....but damnit each time I was told the owner would call me back. ? Maybe he's the only one who knows about rear ends there? Maybe its an abby-normal request? dunno, but He never did call, not even a sorry its been crazy over here call. nothing. moving on. I'll call him back when I'm ready for another driveshaft.
While I ponder all that and save up the cash to order the rear end I started doing more metal work. Made a productive weekend out of it and worked on welding the upper rear jam (still have to fix the roof/gutter/wall pinch welds). Ever since I got this van I have wanted to fix the lower rear door jams. Finally did. Passenger side was first, driver side was BAD - nothing left not even a floor lol.
In the interest of Progress, the third member upgrade will have to wait. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. As it turns our Air management is not cheap...the little odds and ends add up fast. 99% sure I spec'd out everything wanted/needed to install minus the Loctite and hose cutter. waiting on the final quote.
Re-assembled the axle housing last night. It only needs to hold the wheels on and keep the dirt/dust out. did not put the brake parts back on or fluid in the housing. (I plan to dis assemble later anyway) Left it sitting under the van on jack stands.
Next, I have to play with the bar adjustments to get the pinion angle back to where it started and slap on the wheels, plumb up the air and start hitting switches.
(the big push is to get the van off the jack stands and back on all 4's before the IFS arrives)
Can't slide a 2x4 under there.... If someone wants to pilfer my rims they'll have to work for it.
Layed out really nice in the back.(really, worked out perfect)
Its about damn time!
Hit the air switch to go up and it sits just about at stock ride height on 40 year old springs. I still have plenty more lift in the bags to go up, but I'm out of shock. Its cool though - totally stoked!!
I broke my camera, but I'll get some videos of it in action soon.
Now I just have to get the front to go whoop-whoop too....
Been doing more Vannnin then van working lately. Any van working as of late has been on the other early so we can keep on truckin this summer.
However, the IFS has arrived... and its Purdy!
Shipped with Firestone bags, While these are fine quality bags for most normal applications, they do not have an internal bumpstop, nor does the MFGR recommend operation below 5 psi. (I called to verify after running the part #)
That wont exactly work in my application, or at least not for long.
I'm swapping those out for another set of Slam Specialties RE-7's for the front. (have RE-6's in the rear.)
That means, I have a pair of Firestone bags (I can PM the part #), never used if anyone is interested, Other wise they will be in my attic collecting dust. Or I'll retro fit them on onto a go kart or something, lol.
wow tking this over the top ! very cool . Will the that steering align up with the steering Rack ?
THANKS!
Not as it currently sits. the pinion shaft points toward the rear, I need it to point to the front. This was anticipated.
[Side note: In the midst of this I learned that forward steer vs. rear steer simply implies the location of the rack, relative to the cross member (in front of or behind) and has nothing to do with the direction of the pinion shaft.]
After determining the final install position of the cross member, I'll be able to measure linkage lengths and play the linkage angle game. Those parts will add up quickly, so the more efficient it can be the better.
but here is the general plan: I'm making two small (but heavy duty) brackets that will allow me to rotate the rack assembly a bit so that the shaft points forward. Then work out the linkage between the shaft on the rack and an Isuzu steering box (Props goes to to Frank & build #9 for the gear box discovery.). And hell while I'm there...Planning to replace the column and work out the linkage between it and the Isuzu box.
Could also use a Steer Clear in place of the Isuzu box for the difference of several hundred dollars, but it does come in several lengths / configurations.
Finally - something note worthy! Matchstick came to visit and we did the IFS shuffle.
Pulled the motor. Got the van "frame" in the air on hackstands and rail road ties again. Leveled it all out real nice. Spent a considerable amount of time re-measuring, drawing pictures, validating concepts, like a triathlon of Mental Gymnastics.
Then we started cutting stuff
out with the old.... in with the new
This part was super trick.... Using the center of the axles, we managed to determine where the ground, would be, if it was slammed and actually sitting on level ground.
At one point, it grew adjustable legs. That was very helpful.
After getting X and Y lined up all nice, we Figured out Z and cut the legs off.
SUCKSESS! Its tacked in and that's where its going to live. That's the hard part done.
Now I need to figure out what to do from here. ;-)
WILD! Sister Sara just unearthed these and txt me a copy.
Quick history on the van that I've been working on:
This is the van you see in this thread on the day my Dad brought it home.
And this is My Dad and I (& Mom taking the picture I assume) Vannin back in the day. Dated Oct '86, so I was ALMOST two at the time. FAR OUT!
I was looking at more recent event photos - not much has changed. More times than not I still have a drink in one hand and I'm throwing up signs with the other.
Ordered 1 Wheel to test fit with and check for clearance.
I had a tricky time finding a rim design that I liked, that would flow with the build, and came in the right size/specs without having an ultra custom 1 off set made (didn't even look into the cost of that, but would imagine its high). Another VERY important factor in selection was where it was produced.
MADE IN AMERICA! Designed, Cast, and Plated here in the states.
Went with the Boss Motorsports 338's Its a division of American Eaglewheel Corporation. Originally wanted PT# 3386-9812 but then after playing with a wheel/tire simulator / fitment tool. I realized I needed more offset and went with the 3386-9828. The difference in Back spacing, 4.520 and 4.990 appears to be the difference between rolling the window down all the way or not. I wanted as much LIP as I can get in the wheel, so I lost 1/2" but I can live with that.
Will test fit the wheel this evening. Picking up a tire from summit racing on the way home.
I'll have to get some more pictures up ASAP of the front clip grafting. I'm still plugging away at grafting the IFS in. Front is attached, working my way around the back corners.
Its been slow progress, but progress. Trying to spend at least an hour or two down there at night after I get my daughter in bed. Some nights I just don't make it out there or get pushed into repairing the daily driver instead lol.
The Front is well attached. After the back is fully attached, I'll go back to the front chop the tube and graft the ends in all nice.
I was concerned with the strength of the stock rails and the stress I'm adding. Decided box the stock rails in with 1/8" plate, drileld holes and plug welded everything I could.
Getting better at making duplicate shapes.
After welding up the 1/8" plate, I plated over that again with 3/16" and made sure any seams between plates below had been overlapped by the plate on top. Again plug welding the shit out of it before welding the edges. After welding in the gussets I plated over that too (like I did in the front). Dont seem to have a picture of that for some reason?
Its a tedious process.... but worth it i think. Brick house strong so it doesnt rip off on the freeway.
I need the rear corners where the IFS grafts to the original frame super strong, because that will be one of the mount points for what I'll just call "Skid Rails" ;-) (I'll explain when I get that far)
75 pages and over 4 years can do that.It is a really good build and the way its story is unfolding is awesome.One of my favorite threads. BTW I hope to make your truck-in next year.
Moving on to the last corner.... Then circle around for the finishing touches. I'm already having fantasies about taking it apart for blasting and priming
I wanted to try put it on the ground last weekend but at the last minute realized I just didn't have enough Lug Nuts. The Anticipation was a bit over whelming, uncertain of success or failure.
....With my Nuts in hand I was ready to get started..... (Go Big or Go Home)
Crikey!
Cool. Its self supporting again. Now I can figure out how to make it turn and stop.
wow looking awesome ! you can run temp lines on an air valve to the bags so you can rase and lower the van, like air shocks just run the rear in to a "T" fitting quick disconnect with an air line valve like air shocks in the middel of the "T" do the same with the front this allows you to work on the van easyer when jacking and such .
Waiting on the rear wheels to arrive.... in the mean time I'll play with the steering. I'm still not sure what the best way would be to measure for a new steering column.
I have to figure out the wheel well height, stage the seat height, put myself in the mockup seat, and see what feels comfortable. I currently have none of the above but my person.
I might have to build my own seat frame for this one, then pay the upholstery shop to put the guts in side and cover it. Cheapest covering material will do initially, its just a proto type. problem is they wont have a pattern to work from. I'm thinking the foam is where I'll need to get creative. Need something thin, but dense, yet has cushion. - I know its like an oxy moron.
Very nice work Homebrew! I haven't been on here much so I haven't seen what you got done! You need to take that to dropt-n-destroyed next year even if it is like that! Those guys have stuff like that every year! If you don't have a way to haul it let me know I can haul it down there for you.
SWEET! <<<cut>>> This is Dropt Out's 12th annual Dropt n Destroyed custom car & truck show held on May 30-31, 2015. We will be at The Ohio State Reformatory located at 100 Reformatory Rd. Mansfield, Ohio 44905. The prison will be available for tours and photo opps. <<<paste>>>
I might have to take you up on the offer, that sounds fun and is close.
SWEET! <<<cut>>> This is Dropt Out's 12th annual Dropt n Destroyed custom car & truck show held on May 30-31, 2015. We will be at The Ohio State Reformatory located at 100 Reformatory Rd. Mansfield, Ohio 44905. The prison will be available for tours and photo opps. <<<paste>>>
I might have to take you up on the offer, that sounds fun and is close.
Tim Long with "white room" is going again, Jeff Paris with the orange early wants to go again and I think Jeff with "What the hell?" might attend. Great show great people! Your van would bring some great attention! You got the cool van and I got the time!
SWEET! <<<cut>>> This is Dropt Out's 12th annual Dropt n Destroyed custom car & truck show held on May 30-31, 2015. We will be at The Ohio State Reformatory located at 100 Reformatory Rd. Mansfield, Ohio 44905. The prison will be available for tours and photo opps. <<<paste>>>
I might have to take you up on the offer, that sounds fun and is close.
Looking good Homebrew ! I'd like to make that Dropped and destroyed event some day .
Finished welding up in the front, blasted it, primed it.
I rotated the rack.... as if it was executing an in place summersault, in the direction of the nose.
Before:
Spent a lot of time to ensure the rack would remain in the same X/Y/Z location, simply rotated a bit.
Had to figure out how to make a functional bracket.
(Ignore the coat hanger, I wanted to make sure nothing would hit the ground, ) This shit just might work. Sitting in the driver position, when rotating the 'steering column' shaft clock wise the wheels turn right. Counter clockwise, they go left.
Now I have to finish welding up the brackets and obtain the correct bolts. Fab up a bracket to hold the steering box and go from there.
Fuel. I bought and test fit several and then returned all but one. Stopped just short of having a custom one made for my application....wish I had a tig welder... (still an option, I'm still on the fence). The nearly perfect fit one is only 17 gallons. http://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/rci-2172a/overview/ I would prefer a larger capacity tank, but there are many factors.
Regardless, it was a great opportunity to do a rough mock up of the air management stuff.
turns out a 5 gallon Cornelius keg is about the same size as a 5 gallon AccuAir tank, lol. ;-)
SOB. Rack input shaft is in the way of the sway bar. hmmm details. Now is a good time to stop and figure out where I will locate the brake pedal and master cylinder.
Two options.
Wilwood makes a nice hang under the dash pedal when used with some adapter they have allows their tandem M/C to be mounted horizontally. - I like the quality aspect, but would prefer to keep the fluids outside of the van if possible. (All the other brake stuff is already wildwood.)
Other option is the under the floor rear mounted setup like on the stock van configuration and the mid to late 50's chevy trucks. Much to my dismay wildwood does not make a brake pedal assembly for that config. These guys do, but I'm concerned about quality, never handled their stuff before.
The Allstar Performance ALL41015 pedal was of better quality than I expected. Unfortunately, not sure I'm going be able to shoe horn that under the floor.
Ran to summit racing at lunch and picked up the wilwood pedal (340-13574), the adapter (250-3677), a tandem M/C kit with combination proportioning valve (261-13626-BK). Have to see if I can stuff that up under the dash some where and still be able to add fluid. If so, the other bracket is getting returned.
Man, I cant believe I forgot about the sway bar. Mocked that up last night. Have it moving without bind and without anything hitting the bags. Bad news, it's EXACTLY where the rack shaft landed. Mocked up both over and under configs. Like under better than over. Eitherway it forces me to rework the steering shaft angle So - It's bracket Fab Take #2. (sometimes it takes two tries when you don't measure enough the first time) That's on hold awaiting materials to arrive.
Also in the Works.... I need to mock up the driveline so I can get the angle set up nice and relocate all the mounts. Often I'm working alone and late at night in the garage, if I got seriously hurt, it would be a while before anyone found me. With that in mind... what's a few more dollars matter???
A while back I ordered a replica A-727 torqflite w/ short tail shaft housing from P-Ayr Products in Texas (5047). Luckily, the tail shaft bolts/unbolts from the housing. This is NOT the same tail housing used in the light duty Chrysler trucks. I'm going to take my stock tail shaft housing off and bolt it to the replica bell housing.
Since then I also ordered the replica 318 LA block with removable heads (PT # 4032) . It should arrive Thursday or Friday. This time I ordered if via summit racing, so I can deal with them if something isn't right. I'll have to post pictures when it arrives. Is a pretty cool concept and when I drop it on my toes/fingers I'll be just fine.
I was turned onto Kugel Komponents, they makes some cool stuff. They make a 90* contraption, but summit doesn't sell their stuff, so I'd actually have to order it.
In the mean time, I'm going to try and locate a 70's dodge van and rip the brake linkage and mount bracket out. But first I have to track one down in a bone yard.
This would work if I modified the brake arm. CHop it up and weld it into a Z.
The wildwood is nice, but I'm not sure how I would fill it, and I think it sticks out too far.
Here's a pick from the Chilton Chrysler full size vans 67-88 of the 90* configuration they used.
Oh and Flaming River making me a double U joint that has 3/4 DD on one end and 16.5mm -36 spline on the other. Apparently that didn't exist before, only the single joint. (the Isuzu gear box has 16.5MM-36 shafts). After expressing my disappointment and mentioning they are the vendor I know of that has a 16.5mm-36 spline yoke other than the Chines crap... etc. the offered to combine yokes, resulting in a new part. ;-) I'll post the product number after one assigned.
Now to track down that old parts van..... lol. Any one have an extra 70's dodge van booster/MC mount bracket that they don't want?
Had to build a tool so Clover and I could pilfer the tail shaft housing.
Just f'n around with it. Much easier to toss around than the real deal. We drank a bunch of beer and laughed a LOT. Clover cut his hand operating the refrigerator and I smashed my pinky in the tool chest (twice). Didn't even have a chance to get out the power tools concluded it was best to try again in the morning.
Finally came to terms with the 17 Gallon Fuel Cell. It fit in the space I had to work with, just have to add fuel more frequently. I didn't really care for the mounts offered via the mfg, coupled with negative reviews about non square bends, and to top it off, they didn't have my size in stock anyway at summit. Already waiting enough crap in the mail from summit and I wanted to have the gas tank installed before all the air management stuff starts to trickle in.
Feeling compelled to be productive while I had the window of opportunity, I Built a cage to protect the fuel cell out of 1/8 stock. Shouldn't fall a part, but I have given up any weight savings I might have gained.
I prepped and primed it last night. Guess I'll see if it panned out or not when I get home and add some pics of that later.
Also in the mail..... different motor mount brackets. I'd hate to chop up a nice freshly blasted set of stock A100 motor mount brackets - I'll chop something else up instead.
Left and Right side summit part #'s ANI-2325 & ANI-2326. One arrives tonight, one arrives tomorrow. (only had the left side in stock down the road, or I would have driven there)
Other factor to consider is those darn hard to find STOCK a100 motor mounts. I believe after market poly bushing/mounts exist for the above 318 engine mounts. Like the Prothane Motor Mounts 4-504, same guys make a trans bushing/mount (4-1603) that I might retrofit on the stock tail shaft.
Since all the 70's dodge vans have been removed from the Cleveland junk yards and sent to china..... (bastards). I Have a reverse mount under the dash 90* Kugel Brake pedal assembly bracket thing in the mail too. Much like the fuel cell, I'll try several configurations - keep one and return the rest. Frankly I'd like to bolt the wilwood MC and nice valve system onto it, but I cant find a wilwood remote fill lid for their tandem MC. However Kugel does offer one.... (I swear this is like one step forward and two steps back....Custom.)
Did I mention flaming river made a new U-Joint for my project? (The Isuzu Gear box has 16.5mm-36 spline shafts and I'm doing weird stuff with it ) new PT# FR2598-28 16.5-36 x3/4” DD double u joint.
SOB. work on the van came to a halt. The daily driver is down, using the backup beater for the 2+ hour a day commute.
(**Expensive lesson, ALWAYS ALWAYS take out ALL the spark plugs when doing a compression test. I burnt through the gasket between 3 & 4, but with a plug in either one the compression looked acceptable, take the plug out and you got nothing. lol but its got an all new ignition now....and fuel pump....)
Running the cost analysis now on the repair, its more labor than parts. Might just light it on fire and go buy a convertible. It is Spring time after all, Take your Top Off!
The more I worked on the car the more pissed off I was getting and then it got cold. No rest for the wicked...On Sunday, I worked on the van. ;-)
I had to stop and think about where progress had de-railed and why I'm not crossing stuff off the list..... the sway bar. OK, have the sway bar mount plate tacked on then the bracket mounts in place. Moves nice, no bind or bag poking.
Whats next...? Oh yes the rack. While I'm still waiting on materials to build rack mounts 2.0, I chopped up and modified the first set... I'll call it v1.0b... Simply had to readjust for the new angle.
With the Sway bar and rack mounted, I circled back around to the steering linkage. Will make a much nicer bracket for the gear box, but for right now, I can crank the wheel and stuff turns. (both Up and Down.)
The motor mounts fit really nice if you put them on the wrong side and flip them upside down (go figure ?). Then it occurred to me, I'll need to take head exhaust manifold clearance into account. One thing led to another and I was crawling around in the attic looking for stock parts.
Air management stuff has begun to trickle in. The compressors and Extra set of bags arrived today.
Rolling with the Kugel Komponents 90* bracket w/ the wilwood tandem MC and their proportioning valve add on! Should work for this application. If fits nice up under the dash, will modify the MC lid for remote fill. But, like the steering column, I really need a seat installed. Till then this contraption is going back into storage to await its turn.
This project is great and your skills are awesome. You have to be an engineer, a body man, a mechanic and more to pull this off. Congrats. Looking great!!!
With all the air management parts in stock I started to mock that stuff up. The hard lines had become more of a challenge that I anticipated. Literally spent Days getting bent, started out with 22' of 3/8" copper tube and used every inch by the time I was done.
I still have more work to do, but this is the general concept.
Dang! Looked back, it was 5 years ago that this thread started. Van has come a long way! Been watching a few of these threads on some major custom work being done on these vans. Keep it up, can't wait to see the finished product.
Wrapped up the back corner and moved on to the wheel front wheel arch. It's a strange shape to trim evenly. I made a cardboard template and used that to make a shape out of 1/4" plywood. It gave me something to run flapper against.
I used the same wood shape piece to create the panel, worked great using the Nibbler. Left just enough over lap to fit nice, leaving some to be trimmed flush.
Zap-Zap.
and the clean up....
Now I have something to attach wheel wells to with maximum clearance. But before that happens, I need to modify the bottoms of the arch and pull them in a little bit to ensure it doesn't rub while turning and hitting a bump. (My stock one does it sometimes, horrible sound, lol.) More on that later.
Developing new skills and learning about metal shaping.
Had the opportunity to borrow a pullmax machine.
Stoked to the gills, rented a big truck and hit the road with my brother. This will be a most excellent adventure.
In transit:
It was a Beast to move. Inching it out onto the lift gate was scary.
New hang out:
The motor on this Pullmax P6 is a 3HP 220v 3 Phase. I needed to make 3 phase out of my two phase. After a crash course in 3 phase and VFD's, I Went with the Fluxmaster50 Variable Frequency Drive. the FM50-203-C via www.factorymation.comLink to Manual
And the beast is Alive!
In the future I'm going to take a stab at making some tooling for this machine. In the mean time, it came with plenty to get me started!
First thing I attempted to shape was to turn a 90* flange in a radius.
I do intend to make all the floor pans on this machine, but that is later down the line.
Next thing I wanted to attempt was cold shrinking a compound curve - like a wheel well. The stock wells are too small for my application. Had to build a buck to begin the process. Foam seemed easier to work with than wood at the moment, so that's what I used.
Started with spray adhesive and a stack of 2" foam insulation. Then gradually shaped it.
With a foam buck in hand, I can begin creating a surface development pattern.
Next is the Fun part.... Stay tuned. Not sure whats going to happen, its an learning experience.
Woot. mad skills! You ought to create a sun visor and windshield/wiper visor out of sheet metal as well. I was thinking about making one out of fiberglass, in your opinion which would be easier?
I Finally came to terms with needing wipers, although still slightly in denial.
I'm not sure which would be easier, but fiberglass parts for your van may already exist. I got a card from a dude at the NATS who had all kinds of stuff. I'll look for it.
More pics and updates on the way, just short on time at the moment.