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| | | won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | I have a 94 g10/15 with a v6 with 108,000 miles. I have been having some shifting problems lately. Couple weeks back going down the interstate at about 65-70 it fell out of gear and started revving. It would only do this if i had the cruise on and wipers which i thought was weird. Put some Lucas in and it's been doing fine. a little rough shifting into second but otherwise ok.
Coming home in heavy rain tonight (wiper's on again) hit a few big puddles it fell out of gear again and now it won't shift out of 1st. drove 20 miles home in first gear.
Any ideas? | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | I figure i'll start with a fluid and filter change at the least | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: May 2006 Posts: 4,460 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: May 2006 Posts: 4,460 | Torque convertor is hashed, which most likely has gotten a ton of crap in the trans and trashed it as well. Sounds like time for a new trans. thats exactly what my 4.3 Astro did when it blew its trans.
2003 Grand Caravan Member Vanatics Van Club-Spfld, IL Member Florida Van Council Member Central Florida Vans,-Orlando, FL | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | from what i am reading online, a fuse or solenoid has gone out. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 18,286 Likes: 559 | Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 18,286 Likes: 559 | from what i am reading online, a fuse or solenoid has gone out. Thats wishful thinking....
SUNSHINE VANS-VAN DIEGO ADRENALIN BY THE GALLON & CHASIN RACIN ONE FOR THE DIRT & ONE FOR THE STREETS '93 CHEVY G30 454 4X4 SPORTVAN EXT 146" WB '92 CHEVY G30 454 BEAUVILLE EXT 146" WB | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 veteran | veteran Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,847 Likes: 42 | Hitting a puddle then it acting up would have me checking and cleaning all the wiring and connections leading to the transmission.
It might not help, but it will not hurt.
Go crawl under the van follow some tranny wiring around. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: May 2006 Posts: 4,460 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: May 2006 Posts: 4,460 | 700r4 theres only one plug going to the trans, a white or grey 4 pin square plug on the driver side. All it controls is the tc lockup. Even if you unplug it, it'll still have more than one gear.
2003 Grand Caravan Member Vanatics Van Club-Spfld, IL Member Florida Van Council Member Central Florida Vans,-Orlando, FL | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | well here's an odd update. went out to my van this morning. Took it around the block and all my gears were there.
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 9,855 Likes: 234 carpal tunnel | carpal tunnel Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 9,855 Likes: 234 | If it's a '94 it's most likely a 4L60E or other ECM type trans and you could have a bad solenoid or gunk in it or just a bad connection. My '94 is a 4L60E. Do a filter swap and see whats in the pan. If the pan's clean put it back with a new filter. Make sure the fluid level is correct (not under or over). You may need to clean the wiring connector on the transmission case. Clean around it, if it's dirty, before unplugging it and then clean the inside of the connector (both sides) with electrical contact cleaner. Put it back with some dielectric grease on the rubber water seal on the plug. On most of the ECM controlled trans, if the ECM loses contact with the trans (or it has a shorted solenoid, etc.) it will go into "limp home" mode. You will then have reverse and one forward gear but no shifting. Some will reset if you turn off the ignition but, if the problem is still there, will revert to that mode once you start moving. I've heard of some acting this way when the trans had a corroded ground connection thru the connector plug. The ECM couldn't compare input to ground. None of this will cost much but it's worth a try before buying a transmission.
Last edited by CatFish; August 20th 2012 12:52 pm. Reason: ksfs
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,565 pooh-bah | pooh-bah Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,565 | The little plastic gear that drives the governor (housed inside the metal "bubble" on the tailshaft) blew up on mine. I found its pieces in the pan. Put in another out of a spare I had laying around and it worked great. Since you got your gears back I suppose it wasn't that, but maybe some crud is in that area and hanging up the springs in it. Just another thing to check if it flubs up again. Good luck!
Josh Souders Performance Inc The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | thanks. it makes sense of a dirty connector with it only giving me issues when its raining. I'm about to crawl under and see. thanks
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | my '95 G30 had a bad alternator at one time and when the battery got too low the trans would slip into 'limp mode'...
that's something else to check - when i would hit a puddle my alternator used to scream and the volts gauge would drop...
i eventually put in a new alternator and battery...
never had another problem until my battery hold down broke during a panic stop - the battery flew forward and shorted out and blew 'something' in the trans electrical - i also had to drive 40 something miles home in first gear... that was fun...!!!!! | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | that is a possibility. First time it gave me trouble I had wipers, cruise, and the radio on. and it fell out of 4th. but came back when i turned the wipers and cruise off. hmmm.
the connector at the transmission was fine. still snug and clean. there was a trace of fluid around the gasket and the rear seal. So I am thinking low fluid made it do this. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 9,855 Likes: 234 carpal tunnel | carpal tunnel Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 9,855 Likes: 234 | Check and clean your ground cables. I add a couple of small ground straps on most of my vehicles just to keep down trouble. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 old hand | old hand Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 | They also occasionally have problems with the wiring harness inside the tranny, they are available aftermarket, I know rockauto has them.
'85 GMC Shorty '98 Suburban K2500 '98 Pontiac G8 GT '77 Pontiac Astre '95 Jeep Wrangler "I thought you weren't allowed to talk to guys with vans??"
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 12,898 Vanner | Vanner Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 12,898 | Like Catfish says check the grounds, but also the Battery and alternator.....sometimes the alternators on the way out fluctuate the voltage and drives the puter crazy and affecting everything electrical...Next time it won't shift out of first check the voltage at the battery and leave everything on.....
I don't need to be honoured by Vanning, I am honoured to be Vanning ! Supporting Vanning, by going Vanning In A Van ! I hate it, when real life interferes with Vanning ! Van Clan Plus One, Vanning since 1977 ! Ontario Federation Of Truckers (Vanner's) Ottawa Valley Vans I.B.O.B. Founder,Mixed Bag Truckers | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | I came across this on AllData; i don't think it's your problem - but it may be good to post here for someone who also has a problem with their trans:
TECHNICAL
Bulletin No.: 08-07-30-027
Date: June 04, 2008
Subject: No Movement When Transmission is Shifted to Drive or Third - Normal Operation When Shifted to Second, First or Reverse (Replace Forward Sprag Assembly) Models: 1982 - 2005 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks 2006 - 2007 Buick Rainier 2006 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT 2006 Chevrolet SSR 2006 - 2008 Chevrolet Avalanche, Colorado, Express, Silverado Classic, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer 2006 GMC Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL 2006 - 2008 GMC Canyon, Envoy, Savana, Sierra Classic, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL 2006 Pontiac GTO 2006 - 2007 HUMMER H2 2006 - 2008 HUMMER H3 2006 - 2008 Saab 9-7X with 4L60, 4L60E, 4L65E or 4L70E Automatic Transmission (RPOs MD8, M30, M32, M33 or M70)
Condition
Some customers may comment that the vehicle has no movement when the transmission is shifted to DRIVE or THIRD position, but there is normal operation when it is shifted to SECOND, FIRST or REVERSE position.
Cause
This condition may be caused by a damaged forward sprag assembly (642).
Correction
When inspecting the sprag, it is important to test the sprag for proper operation by holding the outer race (644) with one hand while rotating the input sun gear (640) with the other hand. The sun gear should rotate only in the counterclockwise direction with the input sun gear facing upward. If the sprag rotates in both directions or will not rotate in either direction, the sprag elements should be inspected by removing one of the sprag assembly retaining rings (643). Refer to SI Unit Repair section for forward clutch sprag disassembly procedures.
If the sprag is found to be damaged, make repairs to the transmission as necessary. A new forward roller clutch sprag assembly is now available from GMSPO.
If clutch debris is found, it is also very important to inspect the Pressure Control (PC) solenoid valve (377) fluid screens. Clean or replace the PC solenoid (377) as necessary. It is also important to flush and flow check the transmission oil cooler using J45096. Refer to SI Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flushing and Flow Test for the procedure.
The notches above each sprag must point up as shown when assembled into the outer race.
Bearing Assembly, Input Sun Gear
Snap Ring, Overrun Clutch Hub Retaining
Hub, Overrun Clutch
Wear Plate, Sprag Assembly
Retainer and Race Assembly, Sprag
Forward Sprag Assembly
Retainer Rings, Sprag Assembly
Outer Race, Forward Clutch
Washer, Thrust (Input Carrier to Race)
The following information applies when this sprag is used in 1982-86 transmissions.
The new design sprag can be used on models 1982 through 1986, by replacing the entire assembly (637 - 644). Individual components are NOT interchangeable.
Important: The wear plate (640) and input thrust washer (660) are not required with the new sprag. Use of the thrust washer and wear plate with the new sprag assembly will cause a misbuild (correct end play cannot be obtained).
...more coming | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | Like stated above, it definitely sounds more electrical than mechanical - something about putting electronics in control of mechanical; if it turns out that your electrical system is in fact good, i think this might be another problem: it's basically the 2-3 shift solenoid inside the trans.
INFORMATION
Bulletin No.: 01-07-30-036H
Date: January 29, 2009
Subject: Diagnostic Tips for Automatic Transmission DTC P0756, Second, Third, Fourth Gear Start Models: 2009 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks 2009 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3 2009 and Prior Saab 9-7X with 4L60-E, 4L65-E or 4L70E Automatic Transmission (RPOs M30, M32 or M70)
Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2009 model year and add details regarding spacer plates. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-07-30-036G (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).
Some dealership technicians may have difficulty diagnosing DTC P0756, 2-3 Shift Valve Performance on 4L60-E, 4L65-E or 4L70E automatic transmissions. As detailed in the Service Manual, when the PCM detects a 4-3-3-4 shift pattern, DTC P0756 will set. Some customers may also describe a condition of a second, third or fourth gear start that may have the same causes but has not set this DTC yet. Below are some tips when diagnosing this DTC:
^ This is a performance code. This means that a mechanical malfunction exists. ^ This code is not set by electrical issues such as a damaged wiring harness or poor electrical connections. Electrical problems would cause a DTC P0758, P0787 or P0788 to set. ^ The most likely cause is chips/debris plugging the filtered AFL oil at orifice # 29 on the top of the spacer plate (48). This is a very small hole and is easily plugged by a small amount of debris. It is important to remove the spacer plate and inspect orifice # 29 and the immediate area for the presence of chips/debris. Also, the transmission case passage directly above this orifice and the valve body passage directly below should be inspected and cleaned of any chips/debris. For 2003 and newer vehicles the spacer plate should be replaced. The service replacement spacer plate is a bonded style with gaskets and solenoid filter screens bonded to the spacer plate. These screens can help to prevent plugging of orifice # 29 caused by small debris or chips. ^ This code could be set if the 2-3 shift valve (368) were stuck or hung-up in its bore. Inspect the 2-3 shift valve (368) and the 2-3 shuttle valve (369) for free movement or damage and clean the valves, the bore and the valve body passages. ^ This code could be set by a 2-3 shift solenoid (367b) if it were cracked, broken or leaking. Refer to Shift Solenoid Leak Test in the appropriate Service Manual for the leak test procedure. Based on parts return findings, a damaged or leaking shift solenoid is the least likely cause of this condition. Simply replacing a shift solenoid will not correct this condition unless the solenoid has been found to be cracked, broken or leaking. It is important to also refer to the appropriate Service Manual or Service Information (SI) for further possible causes of this condition. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | if i were in your shoes, i would take the van to an Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, or Pep Boys and have them do a charging system test, then a battery test... from there, they could tell you if there's something weak (maybe the alternator's on it's way out and not giving min. 12.6V at load) or, maybe there's a fault in the alternator feed line... next, i would check all the fuses and make sure they're correct... you can check here for any history fault codes, it is OBD1 (pre-1996): http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/you could also check your belt tension, and the wiring going into/out of the computer (the computer's under the driver's seat)... did you drive the van any more last night...? | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | I am gonna drive it to Auto Zone and have it checked out. thanks. I really feel it's electrical too
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | Ok, took it to autozone. they said the battery and alternator are fine. I did notice that when the wipers come on the amp gauge drops to almost red. I drove it for about 20 miles with the air, wipers, radio, cruise and interior lights on it struggled a little but did 65 fine. Got off the interstate and it had gone back into limp mode. Checked the fluid when i got home and it was fine. This is stumping me. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 old hand | old hand Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 | Pondering on this, what do the tranny and wipers have in common? Only the steering column. May have a chaffing problem, hot grounding in column and following some path to the tranny and flipping out the solenoids. Just saying, there has to be a common point when two unrelated systems freak each other out.
'85 GMC Shorty '98 Suburban K2500 '98 Pontiac G8 GT '77 Pontiac Astre '95 Jeep Wrangler "I thought you weren't allowed to talk to guys with vans??"
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | on an older van like yours (or pretty much all the GM's) the shifter is all mechanical linkage until you get to the trans... the trans does have outside wiring to control things, but if i remember correctly, none of that control wiring goes through the steering column...
but then again, with all the movement that happens inside a steering column, it is possible there is a pinched wire or a broken ground or something...
did Autozone give you a printout of your charging system...? did they run the test with your loads off and then on...?
if turning your wipers on drops your voltage, there's either a TON of resistance in your wiper motor, or the alternator is failing... might not be dead yet, but going out...
how were the volts while you were driving 65...?
is there an aftermarket alarm system in the van...? how about extra lights, or some switches, or possibly some shoddy repair work done previously...?
if you have the time, start looking at the wires under the dash, at the computer, or even the alternator feed line (it bolts to the back of the alternator and feeds the electrical system)...
it might be a PITA, but i don't think you have a mechanical problem - so if you do decide to take it to a shop, make sure they don't just put a new trans in it or something...!!!!!! | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | I don't really trust the guy that did the Autozone test. I'm gonna get it tested a different place today. At 65mph it would still drop the volts down to the red. if i turn off the wipers the volts go back up. I am gonna do the drive i did the other day without running the wipers and see if it fails.
I appreciate all your help in this annoying as hell problem. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 member | OP member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 134 | I drove it around last night on the interstate for about 30 minutes. Never touched the wiper and it did fine. | | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 veteran | veteran Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,593 | that's pretty crazy... maybe it's about time to check the wiring in the column, around the column, maybe even try 'just' the wipers with the van running and no other loads on...?
i wonder if the wiper motor is going bad and drawing a ton of power (i've never heard of that before, but it could be possible...?)
| | | Re: won't shift out of first | Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 old hand | old hand Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,051 | Yeppers, theres a lot of wiring in a small space under there. Begin by unplugging the wiper motor and turning the wiper switch on to see if you have the same problem. If not, then the wiper motor is suspect but I am betting it's fine. If there is some sort of connection sending power from the wiper switch to the tranny, it will act the same. There is also the torque converter circuit that comes into the brake light switch that is supposed to unlock it when you hit the brake pedal, it also disengages the cruise so there's another connection. The brake pedal bracket has the column bolted to it, the column has the shift linkage and the wiper/cruise combo switch. Wipers, cruise, tranny all come together at the column.
'85 GMC Shorty '98 Suburban K2500 '98 Pontiac G8 GT '77 Pontiac Astre '95 Jeep Wrangler "I thought you weren't allowed to talk to guys with vans??"
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